Epic weapons/items ... time for a upgrade

[Drfirewater79]

The weapons and items themselves get an upgrade in this update .. many of which i would have never cared to have and now am slightly interested in.

But they all have the same problem ... no point in slotting them because i have gear i cannot remove that has that stuff on it.

if you already have all your +6 stats and greater false life and heavy fort ... what is the point of the other 8 green and yellow and blue slots ??? no one puts anything but good on red slots. Its time to upgrade the list.

I am not suggesting putting better stuff at the same cost hoever.

What i am suggesting is making two tiers higher ..

for 50 dungeon or 35 raid tokens

- superior false life
- improved crit range (stacks with feats and enhancements)
- improved damage multiplier
- elemental bursts
- Vampirism
- align damage (holy, pure good, anarchic, axiomatic but not bursts to keep crafting exciting)
-resistance +7
- exceptional elemental resistance +10
- exceptional stat +2 (needed more for classes like monks who have no exceptionals because of TOD ring dps need)
-dodge +5 (would be only source for this which would make it very sought after for tank builds)
- +15 skills (yellow slots only)
-etc .....

additionally ... i would add a "Planar Shard" style system to the mix too ... just like you trade in PS for large bags from subT guy ... i would make a 100 and 150 epic token trade in for huge bags and some other specialty items that cannot be gained any other way while still making them exciting enough to grind for.

Epic gear right now is almost pointless to fill slots with the exception of very few items ... even with the changes.

I love doing epics ... have almost 70 shards saved up and have spent easily over 200 already .. but i have been spending them cause i have nothing better to do .. rather then to make my gear EPIC. 5 piece chrono set basically is filled only with stuff i have on other pieces of gear incase i have to switch it out .. which is NEVER.

I dont think its asking much to put the EPIC into epic gear.

PS
I know this is gonna stir the pot ...
Hardcores are gonna be "oh this game is easy enough as it is ... now you want to make Epics OP"
Casuals are gonna be "Oh i never do epics so now your gonna make Hardcores OP"

Heres the truth .... none of the item changes i suggested are a) easy to get b) impossible to get and c) OP compared to what you could get with standardized gear anyway.
Epics have already been made easier so really if you dont do epics ... its your own fault (I run total first come pugs on sarlona for Tide that Turns, BoB, BigTop, Party Crashers, Snitch ... and EChrono raid daily ... EV6 is 90% pikers so if you can listen and follow instructions you can get into those parties and do basically nothing cept fight the end boss and the third base genie more often then not... and edq is not that bad its really all about the healers and the casters)

Only thing i can see changing is the amount of epic tokens required for these items to be added.

What do you guys think?
What items would you like to see added to the lists?
What costs do you think should be for these items?
What kind of items would you pay 100 or 150 tokens for?

[Ironforge_Clan]

Heck just expand the current list to fill in the blanks with things that should already be there such as STRIDING. I know there are others that is the most obvious one that is missing from the current list!

[Wrendd]

I would like to see the purple, green and orange slots be used for something special. (I am not sure there is even one item in the game with an orange slot). As it is now the only really useful combined slot is a green slot, and that is mainly because it allows you to put a blue upgrade in it, and blue slots can be a little hard to find (with a couple of notable exceptions, which helps to make those items more valuable.)

I think having specific crystals for each color would be interesting, such as a Green gem that added 30% striding and +1 Good Luck Bonus. I realize that you can already slot +2 Good Luck, but combining both striding and +2 Good Luck would most likely be a little too much (assuming that Striding is added to the base list, which I most also think should happen).

[merentha]

I do not know if more effects is the answer (many will bring up 'power creep). My personal challenge has always been balancing out where I'm slotting what. Why not just open up what a Blue or Green can contain to everything and add Colorless to every epic item (it'll boil down to anything can give +6 or +1 exceptional to a statistic and then we'll have more placement options for other effects). they can keep their 'tier' plan of epic items by controlling whether the item's main slot is Blue/Green or Yellow.

On a side note, I also find it odd that Epic Armor's do not consistently all have a Blue slot when some that do are very easy to obtain compared to some that do not.

[Don1966]

The weapons and items themselves get an upgrade in this update .. many of which i would have never cared to have and now am slightly interested in.

But they all have the same problem ... no point in slotting them because i have gear i cannot remove that has that stuff on it.

if you already have all your +6 stats and greater false life and heavy fort ... what is the point of the other 8 green and yellow and blue slots ??? no one puts anything but good on red slots. Its time to upgrade the list.

I am not suggesting putting better stuff at the same cost hoever.

What i am suggesting is making two tiers higher ..

for 50 dungeon or 35 raid tokens

- superior false life <--would be nice
- improved crit range (stacks with feats and enhancements) <--dunno about this, khopeshes critting on a 10?
- improved damage multiplier
- elemental bursts <--would be nice
- Vampirism <--would be nice
- align damage (holy, pure good, anarchic, axiomatic but not bursts to keep crafting exciting) already available on a 100 hour crystal that is found in a chest
-resistance +7 maybe +6, +7 seems a tad op
- exceptional elemental resistance +10 stacks with everything else so +40 resists? hmm
- exceptional stat +2 (needed more for classes like monks who have no exceptionals because of TOD ring dps need) would be nice but might get rid of a huge reason for people to run ToD
-dodge +5 (would be only source for this which would make it very sought after for tank builds) i like this
- +15 skills (yellow slots only) would eliminate a lot of gear swapping, i like
-etc .....

additionally ... i would add a "Planar Shard" style system to the mix too ... just like you trade in PS for large bags from subT guy ... i would make a 100 and 150 epic token trade in for huge bags and some other specialty items that cannot be gained any other way while still making them exciting enough to grind for. huge bags are only available in the ddo store, would be nice but doubt we see it

Epic gear right now is almost pointless to fill slots with the exception of very few items ... even with the changes.

I love doing epics ... have almost 70 shards saved up and have spent easily over 200 already .. but i have been spending them cause i have nothing better to do .. rather then to make my gear EPIC. 5 piece chrono set basically is filled only with stuff i have on other pieces of gear incase i have to switch it out .. which is NEVER.

I dont think its asking much to put the EPIC into epic gear.

PS
I know this is gonna stir the pot ...
Hardcores are gonna be "oh this game is easy enough as it is ... now you want to make Epics OP"
Casuals are gonna be "Oh i never do epics so now your gonna make Hardcores OP"

Heres the truth .... none of the item changes i suggested are a) easy to get b) impossible to get and c) OP compared to what you could get with standardized gear anyway.
Epics have already been made easier so really if you dont do epics ... its your own fault (I run total first come pugs on sarlona for Tide that Turns, BoB, BigTop, Party Crashers, Snitch ... and EChrono raid daily ... EV6 is 90% pikers so if you can listen and follow instructions you can get into those parties and do basically nothing cept fight the end boss and the third base genie more often then not... and edq is not that bad its really all about the healers and the casters)


Only thing i can see changing is the amount of epic tokens required for these items to be added.

What do you guys think?
What items would you like to see added to the lists?
What costs do you think should be for these items?
What kind of items would you pay 100 or 150 tokens for?

comments in red
it's been posted before that epic crystals need some work and i agree. archmagi is one that really needs to be added or even better, wizardry X, 250 sp. and as a side note i'd love to get into some of those eChrono runs, would love to epic out 3 of the abishai pieces, know two of the ones i want to do, not sure which for the third yet.

[Drfirewater79]

comments in red
it's been posted before that epic crystals need some work and i agree. archmagi is one that really needs to be added or even better, wizardry X, 250 sp. and as a side note i'd love to get into some of those eChrono runs, would love to epic out 3 of the abishai pieces, know two of the ones i want to do, not sure which for the third yet.

pug echrono 3 for 3 (no special treatment first 12 that fit the build 2 casters, 2 healers, rest people who can hit stuff) nearly every day after 5pm EST .. look for hacknslash, kissit or confusious, enochian. Also willing to start one if you find us more often then not have no problem setting up or at least hanging with you till one of the others shows up.

back on topic ... wizX sounds perfect for epic ... somethign you cant get any other way .. that is what epic slots should be .... at least with a higher cost.

[Auriljr]

Nice suggestions but even with these upgrades some epic items will still be gimped, imo devs need to change base epics first.

[MsEricka]

Here's what I think is missing from epic augment slots

superior false life
potency (superior potency 6 or greater potency 7)
striding
archmagi
elemental spell power (would open up possibilities with different GS crafting)
exceptional fortification
guards (ala dragontouched sovereign runes)
skills (+15 for some, maybe +2 stacking UMD)

Also some of the costs are silly. Why does featherfall and wizardry 6 cost the same? Sure it's easier to do, but the minimum level (of an item) with those effects are vastly different.

Therefore I would also suggest making some cost changes, like featherfall being 10 or 15 tokens (not many people slot featherfall anyways!) and archmagi cost 50 and keeping wizardry vi at 30.

tl;dr
We need more choices for epic item slots!

[Drfirewater79]

Here's what I think is missing from epic augment slots

superior false life
potency (superior potency 6 or greater potency 7)
striding
archmagi
elemental spell power (would open up possibilities with different GS crafting)
exceptional fortification
guards (ala dragontouched sovereign runes) **********
skills (+15 for some, maybe +2 stacking UMD)

Also some of the costs are silly. Why does featherfall and wizardry 6 cost the same? Sure it's easier to do, but the minimum level (of an item) with those effects are vastly different.

Therefore I would also suggest making some cost changes, like featherfall being 10 or 15 tokens (not many people slot featherfall anyways!) and archmagi cost 50 and keeping wizardry vi at 30.

tl;dr
We need more choices for epic item slots!

Totally forgot about guards .. yeah why the hell is there no guards on the epic list ... even just a greater lighting guard would be awesome for my shocked by a dwarf build (as many lighting weapons and guards as i can get)\

I agree with the costs thing too .. immunities and feater fall should not cost 30 dungeon tokens either ... a +6 stat is better then any of them generally speaking (fear get a gh clicky or umd scrolls easy enough for example ... why grind out 30 tokens for it?)

and things like Wiz 6 are already available easily with raid items that are better then the epic equivilant slots (like belt for a caster who is not gonna go with a belt with archmagi or something that makes there TOD set if it doesnt have it)
greater false life is another one .... there are tons of items epic and other that have greater false life as a base part of the item ... it should be superior false life.

Epic should be epic not slightly better then raid gear or in some cases slightly better then radom drop loot/crafted junk.

[Ziindarax]

Totally forgot about guards .. yeah why the hell is there no guards on the epic list ... even just a greater lighting guard would be awesome for my shocked by a dwarf build (as many lighting weapons and guards as i can get)\

I agree with the costs thing too .. immunities and feater fall should not cost 30 dungeon tokens either ... a +6 stat is better then any of them generally speaking (fear get a gh clicky or umd scrolls easy enough for example ... why grind out 30 tokens for it?)

and things like Wiz 6 are already available easily with raid items that are better then the epic equivilant slots (like belt for a caster who is not gonna go with a belt with archmagi or something that makes there TOD set if it doesnt have it)
greater false life is another one .... there are tons of items epic and other that have greater false life as a base part of the item ... it should be superior false life.

Epic should be epic not slightly better then raid gear or in some cases slightly better then radom drop loot/crafted junk.

Agreed, and I strongly agree with the OP as well.

To add:

Rather than putting +6 stat on an item, why not be able to make it a +7 instead? There are entirely too few Epic items in the game with +7 con that I'd be willing to trade a slot for (not going to trade my Epic Cloak of Night for an Epic Envenomed Cloak, nor would I replace my GS health necklace for the Hyena claw necklace from Demon Sands).

Further properties worthy of suggesting:

Purple slots -

Special/Improved-Special guards (I.E. Incineration Guard, Improved Lightning Guard)

Weapon/fist imbuing properties (For instance, Eternal Fire, or something that adds force, light, shocking, sonic, etc. damage to your melee/ranged weapons, as well as unarmed attacks).

Red Slots:

50 dungeon tokens could imbue something like lightning strike, or Radiant blast.

[Drfirewater79]

Agreed, and I strongly agree with the OP as well.

To add:

Rather than putting +6 stat on an item, why not be able to make it a +7 instead? There are entirely too few Epic items in the game with +7 con that I'd be willing to trade a slot for (not going to trade my Epic Cloak of Night for an Epic Envenomed Cloak, nor would I replace my GS health necklace for the Hyena claw necklace from Demon Sands).

Further properties worthy of suggesting:

Purple slots -

Special/Improved-Special guards (I.E. Incineration Guard, Improved Lightning Guard)

Weapon/fist imbuing properties (For instance, Eternal Fire, or something that adds force, light, shocking, sonic, etc. damage to your melee/ranged weapons, as well as unarmed attacks).

Red Slots:

50 dungeon tokens could imbue something like lightning strike, or Radiant blast.

yeah i like that idea too ... the shroud weapon abilities and higher guards should be available ... shoot at this point really vorpal and banishing and disruption should be available for but not for red slots unless they want to do a massive cost like 100 dungeon tokens.

I really wish they would have touched on the issue with the slotted pieces before they got all fancy with the weapons themselves.

another classic laughable thing .... they have resistance +4 and protection +4 ... why even have them available ...they are less then what is needed in there situations .. what ac tank is gonna settle for +4 protection? when your counting reflex for ev6 that 1 point difference can be the difference between fireballs hitting you and laughing in the face of epic fire elementals.

I sure hope some dev is reading this .. sadly its hard to tell .. they so rarely drop in and say...

"neat ideas though not sure we could do all of them for technical reasons .... but epic slots will be addressed at some time in the future thanks for your input keep this thread going guys we are getting some great ideas"

or anything.

but really all i really care is to hear that +15 or even better +20 skill slots will be available at some point in epic slots .. i know intimidate doesnt work right now but i would really like to beable to wear a +15 intimidate item (or better) while wearing my Echrono 5 piece ... cause other wise i just will never use intimidate again.

[xandariant]

Here's what I think is missing from epic augment slots

superior false life
potency (superior potency 6 or greater potency 7)
striding
archmagi
elemental spell power (would open up possibilities with different GS crafting)
exceptional fortification
guards (ala dragontouched sovereign runes)
skills (+15 for some, maybe +2 stacking UMD)

Finally someone saw we need striding in augument... I'm impressed!

I like the idea of:
superior false life
potency (superior potency 6 or greater potency 7)
striding
archmagi
exceptional fortification
guards (ala dragontouched sovereign runes)
skills (+15 for some, maybe +2 stacking UMD)
elemental bursts - maybe useless but still a good option.
resistance +5 or +6 (not more)
exceptional elemental resistance +10 or/and +5

I would add true seeing for yellow slot - so it can go into goggles or other items. A lot items have it already (goggles and helmets).

What would hurt the game is:
- improved crit range (stacks with feats and enhancements) - NO! JUST NO!
- improved damage multiplier - look above!
- Vampirism - too OP
- align damage (holy, pure good, anarchic, axiomatic but not bursts to keep crafting exciting) - this would hurt the game
- resistance +7 - definitely not!
- exceptional stat +2 (needed more for classes like monks who have no exceptionals because of TOD ring dps need) - NO! Just get TOD ring, some other items have it, don't try to turn game around finally.
-dodge +5 (would be only source for this which would make it very sought after for tank builds) - too OP and we don't need more AC, AC will be looked in soon so don't bother.

[oradafu]

Deathblock should be another choice. The three easiest slots for Deathblock are: armor, neck, cloak. Not all armors have Deathblock. The Silverflame necklaces are competing with ToD necklaces, Torc, etc. Wearing the Mabar Cloak in raids, Epics and certain quests can now get you banned by some people since the "Mabar Cloak causes lag". So being able to slot Deathblock in epic items would help, I would think, especially when you have FvS and clerics that don't carry Deathward...And yes, there are more than a handful of both groups that don't carry Deathward.

[Drfirewater79]

Deathblock should be another choice. The three easiest slots for Deathblock are: armor, neck, cloak. Not all armors have Deathblock. The Silverflame necklaces are competing with ToD necklaces, Torc, etc. Wearing the Mabar Cloak in raids, Epics and certain quests can now get you banned by some people since the "Mabar Cloak causes lag". So being able to slot Deathblock in epic items would help, I would think, especially when you have FvS and clerics that don't carry Deathward...And yes, there are more than a handful of both groups that don't carry Deathward.

WHAT? Mabar cloak causes lag?

that is rediculous ... so i guess lighting strike guard causes the server to melt down too right because it has twice as many guards as mabar cloak?

the only place you dont need to wear mabar cloaks is epic von 6 because it breaks the facinate on the bases .. if anyone tells you anything else they are eitehr saying it cause they dont like you or they need to get there head checked.

[Sarisa]

WHAT? Mabar cloak causes lag?

It can cause some people with lower end graphic cards client-lag. During the animation, my old PC would drop 4-5 FPS, which can make a noticeable difference in the perception of lag in areas like eDQ, VoD, and Shroud part 5. It does not (usually) cause server lag.

[Shade]

They already coded in "blast" augments for red slots. no idea why they just entirely dropped that idea..

Getting measely +1 hit/dmg for a red slot as the only dmg option is pretty boring and weak.

Especially if you look at the alchemical weps, which at T2 can already be set up to break every dr in the game.. So you do the huge effort ti takes to get T3 and dont care for more dr breaks and what do you get? .. a optiona to slot a 25/30 token gem taht ammounts to like +0.1% dps.

Or worst in the case of weps that are already +7.. no dps options at all.

Crit threat and multiplier plainly added would be a bit too powerful for certain weapons. (eg a +1 multi on a 13-20 wep is ton more dps added then one on a 19-20).. So they'd have to be done sparingly with heavy limits.
eg: +1 multi on a 19-20 only regardless of weapon threat (like bow of sinew)
or +2 threat for 20x weapon, +1 threat for anything already better. Or even +2 threat, but weapon is locked at a x2 multiplier base.. etc

[Drfirewater79]

They already coded in "blast" augments for red slots. no idea why they just entirely dropped that idea..

Getting measely +1 hit/dmg for a red slot as the only dmg option is pretty boring and weak.

Especially if you look at the alchemical weps, which at T2 can already be set up to break every dr in the game.. So you do the huge effort ti takes to get T3 and dont care for more dr breaks and what do you get? .. a optiona to slot a 25/30 token gem taht ammounts to like +0.1% dps.

Or worst in the case of weps that are already +7.. no dps options at all.

Crit threat and multiplier plainly added would be a bit too powerful for certain weapons. (eg a +1 multi on a 13-20 wep is ton more dps added then one on a 19-20).. So they'd have to be done sparingly with heavy limits.
eg: +1 multi on a 19-20 only regardless of weapon threat (like bow of sinew)
or +2 threat for 20x weapon, +1 threat for anything already better. Or even +2 threat, but weapon is locked at a x2 multiplier base.. etc

But think of the epic weapons available .... is a 1 to the crit multiplier or crit range really that OP?

the Chaos blade and Dynamic Falcata (only epic khopeshs i know of)arent that great really .. chaos blade is a vorpal not a dps weapon really and 19-20 base x3 with ONE red slot .. so your choice is adamantine to allow it to drbreak some marut types or increase its crit damage to x4 or increase its crit range to 18-20(making it the same as a scimitar or rapier). Dynastic is even worse ... dont know anyone who would waste there time with that weapon it could use all the help it could get . Its no EAG or ESOS that is for sure neither of them is.

also you say crit range AND multiplier would be OP ... yes both of them together on a uber weapon would yes be OP. BUT one of them wouldnt. Even an Esos .. increase its crit multiplier lose your good drbreaking but it makes up for it in dps ... but is it more OP then it already is ... not reallly ... increase crit range .. sure its pretty powerful ... its also the hardest weapon to get in the game ATM (I have 2 EAG and in the entire time i have done VON6 i have only gotten 1 base weapon .. and in over 100 runs of EV6 and millions of scroll and seal runs ... i have 1 seal of the sos and nothing else)

EAG increase its crit mod and its basically a esos that doesnt crit as much ... increase its crit range and its a greatsword instead of a greataxe ... big deal.

Have you seen the new items... and those raids are not really that fun to do on normal let alone hard elite and epic to get top tiers. Definately not pugable even on normal for the general population of this game.

[FengXian]

I'd like to see striding 30%, skill +15and some green/violet/orange slot exclusive abilities.

Also I like the idea of +1 multi on 19-20 being slottable, not OP but still nice. Definitely better than the useless +7 option XD

Actually I'd love if they implemented this change and replaced the red slot on alchemicals with good alignement, would make some overshadowed epics still desirable

[redspecter23]

I agree with some of the above about the cost of current augments. I can't see why some of the lesser augments like featherfall can't cost less. 10 or even 5. I'd love to see dodge bonuses added. I'd even settle for just +1 and +2 dodge to ease up on some of the issues when fully gearing up an AC toon. +5 dodge seems a tad high for an augment, though it could be the core of an epic base item

Shade you mention "blasts" being coded at some point. I can't see any issue with adding these in. It's not like melee will be outshining casters in the dps department if they had this boost. It might even help bring them up the few notches they need.

[Tinco]

I'm all for:

Armor:
30% striding
dragontouched tempest (and probably sovereign) guards
+15 skills (no umd)

Weapons:
Seeker +6
Stunning +6
Vertigo +6
Shatter +6
(impr) Destruction
(impr) Shattermantle
Tendon Slice 6% /Slowburst
(imrp) Cursespewing
probably lesser banes

I'm not really positive about elemental damages or even alignment damages, that would just create another 'no choice' situation. In my opinion epic slots should be used to get stuff that is already widely available but for one or another reason does not fit into your current gear setup. They should not be an upgrade in power, just stuffing holes.