Power Shortage

[Qaliya]

My first DDO "toon" (I hate that word) is now a 9/1/1 cleric/fighter/rogue. It started out with one level of rogue, then went cleric, and I added a level of fighter for the feat and the weapon proficiencies. The character is doing pretty well. I mostly solo, and have found myself being able to do most quests, though at these mid levels I am starting to run into ones I can't really do by myself.

The character is currently configured as a self-buffing battle cleric for the most part, usually using a hireling and a summon (since, again, I mostly solo). But I've always planned to, at some point, transition into being more of a "blaster" cleric. Offensive spells at low levels are weak for clerics, but now that I have Divine Punishment and better options, this is seeming more viable. I planned for this by, for example, putting my stat increases into Wisdom instead of Strength.

I realized I might be ready for the "transition" when I did a quest with a tough boss and found that my physical damage wasn't getting the job done, and I switched to casting, finishing it off with DP and Searing Light using Maximize and a Superior Brilliance clicky.

But what I'm not getting is how one can routinely use offensive spells without running out of mana. I have about 600 spell points right now, and that's usually enough for how I operate as a battle cleric (buffs and healing). But when I try to use offensive spells regularly, I am out after a couple of fights. (As an aside, do hirelings get 10 times as much mana as we do? They rarely run out. )

So, I guess I'm "unclear on the concept". Is the idea that you still melee while saving your SP for boss fights? Or am I missing something? Because even without metamagic, about 20 or 30 casts per rest is all I can get. (I can cheat a bit using my hireling's DV ability, but the basic issue remains.)

When I get to level 12 I have to make a decision about a feat... whether to take Improved Critical (Slashing), which I really wanted to get for several levels, or take a casting feat like Quicken or Empower. So I want to try to figure this out now.

Thanks.

[lazyninja81]

I noticed a similar shift with two different builds I was playing. One was a dwarven 19 cleric/1 fighter build and the other a warforged 18 wiz/2 rogue build. In both cases, each build was able to melee reasonably well (with buffs and some gear from auction house, nothing fancy though) up to mid levels. I stopped playing the cleric then as I didn't like healing people all the time and was having much more fun blasting stuff with my WF wizzie.

Sp management is key for casters. In my experience, area affect spells are the most efficient means for dealing with trash during a quest. For clerics, Blade Barrier is a big one but you won't get that until Cleric lvl 11, which means lvl 13 for your character. Since you seem to have focused on casting (pts into Wis) but have a couple splash levels, pick some spell penetration enhancements and try to make use of crowd control spells, like greater command. If you can land it, whole groups of mobs will lie down nicely while you smack them to death. This may help you conserve mana for spell nuking bosses. Do what you can to squeeze out those next two levels. Once you get BB, you can run around, gather a bunch of mobs and cast a BB. Then kite them through it. BB does have a longer casting time than most other cleric spells. Hasten is useful for casting in a hurry or during a fight.

I've tried to do the melee and caster builds before, without much success. You really should focus on one or the other at higher levels, unless you've got uber gear or 34, 36-pt builds. Or are just plain uber yourself. You might want to focus future feat choices towards spells since you've build more of a caster. Spell penetration, spell focus, or meta-magics are all good, especially when you're not a pure caster.

GL. Hope that helps. The easiest solution to your problem may be to group a few times for high xp quests to help get you those next 2 levels.

[Innara]

BB does have a longer casting time than most other cleric spells. Hasten is useful for casting in a hurry or during a fight.

The casting speed for BB has been significantlty shortend with the last update or the one before. Even non-quickened it's no where as slow as it was before.

And I'll agree with what lazyninja says about trying to cast/heal/melee all in one. It does require some gear or more build points to make it work decently. I too will recommend you concentrate on either melee OR offense/cc along with heals. Your build split seems to lend itself to more of a melee role but you say you're focussing on pumping up wisdom at the cost of strength. I don't know what feats (maybe if you can list them out and your stat split?) you have chosen so far except maximize, but if they're mainly to boost spells then you are perhaps on the track to making a caster cleric type build which can melee in a pinch. In which case, ask yourself if imp critical is really necessary for you when you can get some other caster based feats.

[Qaliya]

Thanks for the replies. I agree about it being hard to focus on both melee and casting, and that's why I wanted to focus more on the latter. I'm just finding that as I start to cast more, I run out of SP too fast. It's fun to do 120 points of damage on a Searing Light but I can only do it a handful of times, where I can melee "forever" (not really, but you know what I mean).

Maybe the problem is that I lack access to BB and I'm using DP which only affects one enemy, as you said. So does Searing Light. I didn't realize Greater Command was area effect, I may have to try that out. It does seem the only effective way of being an offensive caster is to use area effect stuff, except for boss fights.

[stoerm]

Thanks for the replies. I agree about it being hard to focus on both melee and casting, and that's why I wanted to focus more on the latter. I'm just finding that as I start to cast more, I run out of SP too fast. It's fun to do 120 points of damage on a Searing Light but I can only do it a handful of times, where I can melee "forever" (not really, but you know what I mean).

Maybe the problem is that I lack access to BB and I'm using DP which only affects one enemy, as you said. So does Searing Light. I didn't realize Greater Command was area effect, I may have to try that out. It does seem the only effective way of being an offensive caster is to use area effect stuff, except for boss fights.

For soloing you need sustained DPS, which means melee. You can't expect to solo nuke your way through a quest on a cleric, sorry, that's fvs/sorc territory. You can stretch sp for example by gathering a trail of mobs and repeatedly kiting them through a bb. A couple more cleric levels and you get the healing aura, joy!

[ag_gair_eos_ard]

Thanks for the replies. I agree about it being hard to focus on both melee and casting, and that's why I wanted to focus more on the latter. I'm just finding that as I start to cast more, I run out of SP too fast. It's fun to do 120 points of damage on a Searing Light but I can only do it a handful of times, where I can melee "forever" (not really, but you know what I mean).

Maybe the problem is that I lack access to BB and I'm using DP which only affects one enemy, as you said. So does Searing Light. I didn't realize Greater Command was area effect, I may have to try that out. It does seem the only effective way of being an offensive caster is to use area effect stuff, except for boss fights.

Soundburst is highly effective as well. Especially in caster/rogue heavy areas. Like von 3 for example.

[Qaliya]

For soloing you need sustained DPS, which means melee.

Does that mean I have "messed up" this character by advancing Wis and so forth, and shouldn't even bother trying to transition to casting? I hope not. But it does sound like I can't really try to be a full caster and will need to continue to advance my melee capabilities.

[cwfergtx]

Which of the Metamagic feats do you run with on all the time? Do you have the enhancements that help add mana points to your pool? What is your WIS score and do you have the max allowed WIS + item? Do you have either a Power, Magi, or Wizardry Item on and is it the highest level available for your level?

[Qaliya]

I currently have Empower Healing and Maximize. I usually have Empower Healing on, but I don't do a lot of healing -- my hireling does most of it, so I can concentrate on killing. I use Maximize mainly for Radiant Servant blasts and also for casting on bosses.

I have the "Smite" enhancements to increase damage and the first two that provide a 6% critical chance. I have the first two SP boosting enhancements (total of +50).

I made myself a Power VII item at a relatively low level and use that before resting until I cast buffs, then switch it off.

My WIS is currently 24 including all boosts.

[Innara]

It does get a lil difficult solo-ing on a divine around the levels just before BB. Just try to push towards that lv13 and once you have BB it's usually all you need most of the time. Like it's been said, gather a bunch of mobs and kite them around through it. Personally I recommend letting the dungeon alert go off a bit before dropping that bb in order to conserve sp (striding item helps here). Only use searing light/DP for boss fights and even then unless it's a caster kinda boss BB kiting and some mild DP should be enough.

And for the moment, using soundburst or greater commanding are excellent choices and you can beat the mobs up in melee while they're cc-ed. Don't cast offensively unless you really need to. It might also help if you try to group a bit for the next couple levels (be aware that parties will expect you to heal everyone, obviously).

I currently have Empower Healing and Maximize. I usually have Empower Healing on, but I don't do a lot of healing -- my hireling does most of it, so I can concentrate on killing. I use Maximize mainly for Radiant Servant blasts and also for casting on bosses.

Try not to have maximize on at all times and for all spells on normal content, it is a huge mana drainer. Come u11 you can specify which metas to use for which spells and that should certainly help out as well.
Also grabbing the mental toughness feats help a lot with sp, especially on a untwinked first life toon. Later levels, on a caster cleric, you probably very much want quicken and spell pen feats.

For soloing you need sustained DPS, which means melee.

It might be true now but later on (read: BB) it's certainly very viable to solo as a caster cleric (and having the ability to melee in a pinch also really helps out).

[Qaliya]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm struggling to figure out feat picking at the moment, since I'm almost level 12. I already have Maximize so not sure I need Empower. It does seem like most of the time it is more mana-efficient not to use metamagic, and when fighting a boss you want the big guns, thus Empower.

Come u11 you can specify which metas to use for which spells and that should certainly help out as well.

That will be great!

My main weapon right now is a falchion (Bloody Cleaver) and so Improved Critical is very tempting. The alternative is something like Quicken, but I rarely find myself having an issue casting while in combat.. at least so far.

I know you can change feats but it seems very expensive at the higher levels... so I am trying to figure this all out now.

[FrozenNova]

You have a split appropriate for a melee and stats appropriate for a caster. Be forewarned that hybrid first lives arn't going to end well.

8 Feats
Toughness
Power attack
Improved critical
Quicken
Maximize
Empower healing
Extra turning / Evocation focus
Spell penetration / Heighten

Would make the best of a bad day I suppose.

The 'concept' of a casting cleric is that you cast spells that are more efficient in terms of time or spellpoints than healing, and hence do not run out of sp.

[PNellesen]

My main weapon right now is a falchion (Bloody Cleaver) and so Improved Critical is very tempting. The alternative is something like Quicken, but I rarely find myself having an issue casting while in combat.. at least so far.

Bloody Cleaver is really nice at mid-levels, especially if you can upgrade it to Vampiric or Maiming. Just about the ONLY time I use Quicken is for casting Mass Heal in raid boss fights like Parts 4/5 of Shroud, the last 2 minutes of VoD, Part 3 of ToD, etc (and in some Epic quests), but I really, really want it in those situations. You might consider taking it as your last feat if you plan on doing any raid healing.

Another thing that helps me with SP conservation is having some Superior Potency, Spell Pen, and Spell Focus items equipped when casting - if at all possible, I only want to cast a given spell once in any particular fight, then mop up with melee. For no-save spells like Divine Punishment, I try to have Superior Potency item in one hand, and some kind of Lore item in the other. For spells like Cometfall/Blade Barrier/ Greater Command, I'll have Potency and Spell Pen, then have the appropriate Spell Focus item equipped elsewhere (Necro, Evocation, etc.) I'm always looking for anything I can find that increases my damage and/or chance of hitting a CC spell without costing any extra SP.

[Drekisen]

Your question on why hirelings rarely run out is because they all have multiple Mnemonic clickies that reset at every shrine

Cleric is a balanced class by design, it is not meant to be solely a nuker, healer, or melee but to do all three competently. Clerics are indeed given enhancements to help with melee, offensive casting, AND healing. It's a shame to see so many clerics corner themselves into one of the three conventional roles of a cleric instead of realizing that a well built and played cleric is capable of doing all three, not just one or two.......I disregard such players as true clerics.

As goes with what their main stat is, WISDOM......play them wisely and you will see just how powerful they are.

Blade Barrier in itself even without great DC's is highly effective even in end game, their healing is without a doubt great even without specifically specializing just in that, and with DM, DP, and DF along with their deity of choice enhancement they can do decent melee damage and actually have a very doable to-hit as well.

[Stitch78]

Bloody Cleaver is really nice at mid-levels, especially if you can upgrade it to Vampiric or Maiming. Just about the ONLY time I use Quicken is for casting Mass Heal in raid boss fights like Parts 4/5 of Shroud, the last 2 minutes of VoD, Part 3 of ToD, etc (and in some Epic quests), but I really, really want it in those situations. You might consider taking it as your last feat if you plan on doing any raid healing.

Another thing that helps me with SP conservation is having some Superior Potency, Spell Pen, and Spell Focus items equipped when casting - if at all possible, I only want to cast a given spell once in any particular fight, then mop up with melee. For no-save spells like Divine Punishment, I try to have Superior Potency item in one hand, and some kind of Lore item in the other. For spells like Cometfall/Blade Barrier/ Greater Command, I'll have Potency and Spell Pen, then have the appropriate Spell Focus item equipped elsewhere (Necro, Evocation, etc.) I'm always looking for anything I can find that increases my damage and/or chance of hitting a CC spell without costing any extra SP.

Every player can get one free feat respec by completing Lockania's quest in the marketplace. After completing, you can use the free respec at any time. Many people will respec a feat at the lower levels when it is relatively "cheap" and then use their free respec at higher levels when it would otherwise be more costly.

If you can afford it, you might swap in improved critical: slashing now and then swap it back out later. I would advise you to read the wiki and forum posts about feat swapping - there are some things you cannot do and some things that once done, cannot be undone.

[aennae]

I have exactly the same issue, so i try to use low mana cost spell (searing) with brilliance and efficiency. I often take a priest hireling that is there for nothing but to throw divine vitality on me (I dont need his heals or dps, i just need him to feed me).

One possibility is to save on bufs (anyway they will be dispelled) and go for potions or ship bufs. I usually only keep protection from evil, shield of faith and the other small buf (that hekp for save and against magic missiles).

I try to save mana as much as i can :
either i melee easy stuff.
either i do large pull on a blade barrier.

i rarely use greater command solo it sucks mana too much and anyway fallen mob take still time to kill. Balde barrier is better since it deal lot of damage especially with mob crossing it several time. Symbols are also cheap and may be really good if you manage to bring the mobs on them.


The game is currently quite broken since heal potions are cheap and you find them everywhere but mana potion are rares and i sell them at the AH. If you solo with a melee all you need is a big stock of cheap potions, with a caster it's quite different. In a non shrine friendly instance mana may be a huge issue.

Note that as soon as a shrine is found you are done since even if this mean waiting you can rest as much as you want.

Last note that i have less issue now that before, simply because my mana pool grows.

2-3 advices :

before resting summon a pet buf it and equip a power of wizardry item, them buf up and take regular items.
before a big fight click ardor and potency items you may have and switch back to normal items.
bring a hireling with the best divine vitality rank.
ask you hireling to rest (they don't have returning turn undead).

Last, the desperate solution would to recall get a drink at tavern and rush back in. I never had to do it, the onyl time i recalled was to get something to throw at a lever (after breaking all the crate to get dagger or hammers).