Epic Sword of Shadows vs TWF Lit 2?

[Droken]

Which has the higher dps versus trash mobs?

Any super geek math lovers out there willing to do the computation?

I finally completed my Epic Sword of Shadows, but after taking it for a test spin, wasn't incredibly impressed with the damage. I guess it's not qutie as easy to compare the damage from two different fighting styles. It'd be plain as day to compare a ESOS with another 2-hander.

But like, what about a pair of lit 2's? Each hand does a ton of additional damage from the lightning, goodburst, lightning strike, lightning blast damage.

And what if you factor in half-elf rogue dillitente? Bonus damage usually favors towards two weapon fighting.

[totalmir]

A pure khopesh kensai is almost always gonna get more kills from what I've seen.

[Moltier]

On paper, the TWF lit2 is ahead of the eSoS against single targets.
A pure fighter with lit2s is ~10% better then with eSoS.
A pure barb with lit2s is ~2% behind the eSoS version.
But in actual gameplay, the barb run faster, reach the target sooner.
A THF will hit from further.
Then the THF will hit many opponent with glancing blows, and...
cleave, supreme cleave.
So while on paper a TWF is better, in game a THF is way ahead versus trash.

[Consumer]

On paper, the TWF lit2 is ahead of the eSoS against single targets.
A pure fighter with lit2s is ~10% better then with eSoS.
A pure barb with lit2s is ~2% behind the eSoS version.
But in actual gameplay, the barb run faster, reach the target sooner.
A THF will hit from further.
Then the THF will hit many opponent with glancing blows, and...
cleave, supreme cleave.
So while on paper a TWF is better, in game a THF is way ahead versus trash.

Can you show me this paper?

[grodon9999]

Can you show me this paper?

Yes, I'd like to see these numbers as well.

Fighter or barbarian? Tanker or flanker? TWFing gains more from builds with a bunch of sneak attack but the raw damage output of well-equipped full-****** with an ESoS is amazing.

[NaturalHazard]

well theres less chance of you losing your sanity trying to get 2 litII's theres that small advantage.

[NaturalHazard]

Can you show me this paper?

toilet paper?

[Feralthyrtiaq]

well theres less chance of you losing your sanity trying to get 2 litII's theres that small advantage.

Whatchoo Talkin' Bout Willis! That's a HUGE advantage...

Farming GS Mats=>Not Bad
20 or 40 Raid Competions for Unique Loot => Starting to Smart
Farming for Epic Upgrade Mats ======> Would rather have a stick in my eye.

[grodon9999]

well theres less chance of you losing your sanity trying to get 2 litII's theres that small advantage.

That is ABSOLUTELY true. Well over 100 dragons and I have 1 shard. I know people who've run twice as many dragons and still have NEVER pulled a shard for the ESoS.

The Khopesh price of admission is lower.

EDIT: mis-read what I'm quoting. I have 6 lightning II weapons, 2 Lightning II Bows, 6 Mineral II weapons, HP items, SP item, etc . . . and I STILL don't have the mats to make 1 ESoS.

[Alex301]

Static increases to damage do favour TWF such as sneak attack damage. In ideal conditions I believe TWF will win out but in practice I'd imagine it's quite close. The benefits of running faster and THF weapons having a greater reach make very little difference when targets have more hp.

[TheDjinnFor]

I did it.

/phew

Assumptions

Average - Capped values with reasonable gear and good enhancement choices
Top tier - Race assumed to be half orc for the Barbarian, Half Elf rogue dilly for the Kensei, includes raid loot.
Full-****** - Not pure max, just max reasonable amount that would actually be used in battle (no scourge choker for example due to attack speed debuff). Includes epics. No rare consumables (e.g. cookies, DDO store pots, House D pots).
-Lightning strike does 625 damage per proc at a 2.5% proc rate (specifically, I'm guessing 125d3+375 damage), so basically +15.625 damage per swing. This is based on my own interpretation and testing as I have yet to see anything but rough estimates from other people. If you have a better value I will update my post.
-Math assumes that both the barbarian and the fighter activate their boosts just before they reach the enemy and defeat them before the 20 seconds ellapses. I find this to be a common enough occurence when fighting trash mobs. A "raid-boss DPS" challenge would have them fighting with 10 seconds of no boosts for every 20 seconds with boosts (plus the activation time, which is 0.6 seconds for a Quickdraw-using fighter and 1.2 for the barbarian).
-Mobs have 0% fort, 0 DR, no energy resistances, and are CC'd so that sneak-attacks work on them. This isn't really a huge stretch when it comes to trash DPS, especially in epics.
-Spamming supreme cleave on a barbarian boosts DPS by roughly 15%. This is the result of a private conversation between me and Vanshilar, the person who tested attack speed results in this thread.
-Lastly, the most important! This assumes the boost to Damage Boost goes through and boosts base damage by 25%. If not, well... this changes. A lot.

Equipment

ESoS for THF
Lit 2 x2 for TWF
Shintao Set
Ravager Set
Epic Marilith Chain
Titan's Grip
Greater Bold Trinket
EClaw

Strength breakdown

Average
18 Base
+5 Levels
+2 Tome of Str +2
+6 Enhancement (+6 item)
+2 Rage Spell

+8 Insight Kensei Power Surge (Kensei)
+3 Fighter Strength (Kensei)
+8 Mighty Rage (Berserker)
+4 Barbarian Power Rage (Berserker)
+2 Barbarian Might Capstone (Berserker)
+2 Frenzy (Berserker)
+4 Death Frenzy (Berserker)

= 44 Kensei / 53 Barbarian

Top tier
+1 Tome of Str +3
+2 Madstone
+1 Enhancement (+7 item)
+3 Exceptional
+2 Ship Buff
+2 Yugoloth Potion

+2 Racial Strength (Berserker)
+2 Orcish Power Rage (Berserker)
+2 Half-orc Strength (Berserker)

= 55 Kensei / 70 Barbarian

Full-******
+1 Tome of Str +4
+8 Psionic (Titan's Grip clicky)
+2 Double Madstone

= 66 Kensei / 81 Barbarian

Base Damage bonuses

All strength values rounded up in damage calculations to the nearest even value, except for full-******, which represents maximum realistically sustainable amount.

Average
+7 Spell singer/Virtuoso bard song
+1 Prayer

+17 Strength / +8 Strength (Kensei)
+5 Power Attack (Kensei)
+2 Weapon Specialization (Kensei)
+2 Greater Weapon Specialization (Kensei)
+2 Fighter Weapon Specialization (Kensei)
+2 Weapon Mastery (Kensei)
+33 Strength (Berserker)
+10 Power Attack (Berserker)
+6 Barbarian Power Attack (Berserker)

= +38 Kensei Main, +29 Kensei Off / +57 Berserker

Top tier
+2 Exceptional Shintao Set
+1 Splashed Warchanter Bard Song
+1 Greater Bold Trinket

+6 Strength / +3 Strength (Kensei)
+12 Strength (Berserker)
+6 Half-Orc Power Attack (Berserker)
+4 Orcish Melee (Berserker)

+2 Seeker (Colethanis's Belt)
+2 Exceptional Seeker (Greater Bold Trinket)
+4 Seeker Weapon Mastery (Kensei)

= +48 Kensei Main, +36 Kensei Off, +8 Seeker / +83 Berserker, +4 Seeker

Full-******
+4 EClaw Set
+1 Max Bard Song

+5 Strength / +3 Strength (Kensei)
+8 Strength (Berserker)

+8 Seeker eMarilith

= +58 Kensei, +44 Kensei Off, +16 Seeker / +96 Berserker, +12 Seeker

Kensai TWF

Lit 2 mainhand

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-15): 1d10 + 5 + 38 + 1d6 shock + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Crit (16-19): 3d10 + 15 + 111 + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Vorpal (20): 3d10 + 15 + 111 + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 4d6 shocking blast + 10d6 Shocking Blow + 312.5 Lightning Strike + 3d6+8 sneak attack
= (29d10 + 145 + 1102)*1.25 + 19d6 + 20d10 + 38d6 + 38d6 + 4d6 + 10d6 + 312.5 + 57d6 + 152
= 1758.175 + 1155.5
= 2913.625 dmg in 20 swings

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-15): 1d10 + 5 + 48 + 1d6 shock + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Crit (16-19): 3d10 + 15 + 144 + 24 seeker + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Vorpal (20): 3d10 + 15 + 144 + 24 seeker + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 4d6 shocking blast + 10d6 Shocking Blow + 312.5 Lightning Strike + 3d6+8 sneak attack
= (29d10 + 145 + 1392 + 120)*1.25 + 19d6 + 20d10 + 38d6 + 38d6 + 4d6 + 10d6 + 312.5 + 57d6 + 152
= 2270.625 + 1155.5
= 3426.125 dmg in 20 swings

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-15): 1d10 + 5 + 58 + 1d6 shock + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Crit (16-19): 3d10 + 15 + 174 + 48 seeker + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Vorpal (20): 3d10 + 15 + 174 + 48 seeker + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 4d6 shocking blast + 10d6 Shocking Blow + 312.5 Lightning Strike + 3d6+8 sneak attack
= (29d10 + 145 + 1682 + 240)*1.25 + 19d6 + 20d10 + 38d6 + 38d6 + 4d6 + 10d6 + 312.5 + 57d6 + 152
= 2783.125 + 1155.5
= 3938.625 dmg in 20 swings

Lit 2 offhand

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-15): 1d10 + 5 + 29 + 1d6 shock + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Crit (16-19): 3d10 + 15 + 87 + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Vorpal (20): 3d10 + 15 + 87 + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 4d6 shocking blast + 10d6 Shocking Blow + 312.5 Lightning Strike + 3d6+8 sneak attack
= ((29d10 + 145 + 841)*1.25 + 19d6 + 20d10 + 38d6 + 38d6 + 4d6 + 10d6 + 312.5 + 57d6 + 152) * 0.8
= (1431.875 + 1155.5) * 0.8
= 2069.9 dmg in 20 swings

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-15): 1d10 + 5 + 36 + 1d6 shock + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Crit (16-19): 3d10 + 15 + 108 + 24 seeker + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Vorpal (20): 3d10 + 15 + 108 + 24 seeker + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 4d6 shocking blast + 10d6 Shocking Blow + 312.5 Lightning Strike + 3d6+8 sneak attack
= ((29d10 + 145 + 1044 + 120)*1.25 + 19d6 + 20d10 + 38d6 + 38d6 + 4d6 + 10d6 + 312.5 + 57d6 + 152) *0.8
= (1835.625 + 1155.5) * 0.8
= 2392.9 dmg in 20 swings

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-15): 1d10 + 5 + 44 + 1d6 shock + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Crit (16-19): 3d10 + 15 + 132 + 48 seeker + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 3d6+8 sneak attack
Vorpal (20): 3d10 + 15 + 132 + 48 seeker + 1d6 shock + 4d10 shocking burst/blast + 2d6 holy +2d6 Ravagers Cut + 4d6 shocking blast + 10d6 Shocking Blow + 312.5 Lightning Strike + 3d6+8 sneak attack
= ((29d10 + 145 + 1276 + 240)*1.25 + 19d6 + 20d10 + 38d6 + 38d6 + 4d6 + 10d6 + 312.5 + 57d6 + 152) * 0.8
= (2275.625 + 1155.5) * 80%
= 2744.9 dmg in 20 swings

DPH

Average - 4983.525 dmg * 1.1 Doublestrike / 20 swings = 274.1 DPH
Top tier - 5819.025 dmg * 1.1 Doublestrike / 20 swings = 320.0 DPH
Full ****** - 6683.525 dmg * 1.1 Doublestrike / 20 swings = 367.6 DPH

Attack Speed

Haste Boosted: 86.66 * (100% + 1.1965 * (0.15 + 0.3)) = 133.3199105 swings / minute
No Boost: 86.66 * (100% + 1.1965 * (0.15)) = 102.2133035 swings / minute

DPS

Average: Haste Boost - 609.0 DPS; No Boost - 466.9 DPS
Top Tier: Haste Boost - 711.0 DPS; No Boost - 545.1 DPS
Full ******: Haste Boost - 816.8 DPS; No Boost - 626.2 DPS

Berserker THF

ESoS Strike

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-14): 5d6 + 10 + 57 + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut
Crit (15-18): 15d6 + 30 + 171 + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut
FB Crit (19): 30d6 + 60 + 342 + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut
Vorpal (20): 30d6 + 60 + 342 + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut + 10d6 Shocking Blow
= (185d6 + 370 + 2109)*1.25 + 38d6 + 76d6 + 38d6 + 10d6 + 8
= 3908.125+ 510
= 4418.125 dmg per 20 swings

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-14): 5d6 + 10 + 83 + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut
Crit (15-18): 15d6 + 30 + 249 + 12 seeker + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut
FB Crit (19): 30d6 + 60 + 498 + 24 seeker + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut
Vorpal (20): 30d6 + 60 + 498 + 24 seeker + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut + 10d6 Shocking Blow
= (185d6 + 370 + 3071 + 96)*1.25 + 38d6 + 76d6 + 38d6 + 10d6
= 5230.625 + 510
= 5740.625 dmg per 20 swings

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-14): 5d6 + 10 + 96 + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut
Crit (15-18): 15d6 + 30 + 288 + 30 seeker + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut
FB Crit (19): 30d6 + 60 + 576 + 60 seeker +2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut
Vorpal (20): 30d6 + 60 + 576 + 60 seeker + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy + 2d6 Ravagers Cut + 10d6 Shocking Blow
= (185d6 + 370 + 3552 + 240)*1.25 + 38d6 + 76d6 + 38d6 + 10d6
= 6011.875 + 510
= 6521.875 dmg per 20 swings

ESoS Glancing Blow

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-20): 0.6 * (5d6 + 10 + 57) * 1.25 + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy
= (1204.125 + 399) * 0.75
= 1202.34375 dmg per 20 swings

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-20): 0.6 * (5d6 + 10 + 83) * 1.25 + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy
= (1574.625 + 399) * 0.75
= 1480.21875 dmg per 20 swings

Miss (1): 0
Hit (2-20): 0.6 * (5d6 + 10 + 96) * 1.25 + 2d6 Frenzy + 4d6 Death Frenzy
= (1759.875 + 399) * 0.75
= 1619.15625 dmg per 20 swings

DPH

Average -5620.46875 dmg / 20 swings = 281.0 DPH
Top tier - 7220.84375 dmg / 20 swings = 361.0 DPH
Full ****** - 8141.03125 dmg / 20 swings = 407.1 DPH

Attack Speed

Cleave-Spam Attack Speed: 113.9928435125 swings / minute
Auto-Attack Speed: 86.63 * (100% + 0.9615 * 0.15) = 99.12421175 swings / minute

DPS

Average: Cleave Spam - 533.9 DPS ; Auto attack - 464.2 DPS
Top Tier: Cleave Spam - 685.9 DPS ; Auto attack - 596.4 DPS
Full ******: Cleave Spam - 773.4 DPS; Auto attack - 672.6 DPS

Comparison & Conclusions

Kensei

Average: Haste Boost - 609.0 DPS; No Boost - 466.9 DPS
Top Tier: Haste Boost - 711.0 DPS; No Boost - 545.1 DPS
Full ******: Haste Boost - 816.8 DPS; No Boost - 626.2 DPS

Berserker

Average: Cleave Spam - 533.9 DPS ; Auto attack - 464.2 DPS
Top Tier: Cleave Spam - 685.9 DPS ; Auto attack - 596.4 DPS
Full ******: Cleave Spam - 773.4 DPS; Auto attack - 672.6 DPS

Results

Fixed. This was more align with what I was expecting to begin with: the Berserker does slightly more auto-attack DPS than a boostless kensei, and slightly less cleave spam DPS than a haste-boosted kensei.

The presence of multiple targets in range of the auto-attacking barbarian increases DPS by 99.3 / 122.3 / 133.7 DPS per target. One secondary target brings the barbarians DPS up to par with (but slightly under) the boosted kensei.

Again, this is trash DPS, and so does not include activation time for boosts as well as offtime for when the boost is on cooldown (it's CD is 30 seconds) but the effect has ended (the boost only lasts for 20 seconds). This would reduce both DPS values, the fighter much more than the barbarian.

The presence of one more target in a cleave spam rotation multiplies a Barbarians DPS by 1.5 (every second hit deals double damage since it's a cleave attack; each additional mob in range adds +0.5 to this multiplier), plus gets faster and more glancing blows, far surpassing a hasted kensei. A max DPS barbarian cleave-spamming 5 held mobs does 4250 DPS!

Relevancy

This is a trash DPS comparison and does not represent single-target boss DPS or even single-target trash DPS if the trash has enough HP to not die in 20 seconds. Kensei's DPS with a Lit 2 will be significantly lowered in the new content due to the abundance of electricity-resistant enemies. A better comparison would pit a Lit 2 + Air/Air/Air HElf (Rogue Dilly) Kensei against a HOrc Barbarian, due to the new Alchemical weapons (assuming no electricity resistance); the Air/Air/Air adds Doublestrike +6% and is slightly more DPS than a Lit 2 because of this (and would also get a minor multi-target DPS boost), but a second Triple Air doesn't stack Doublestrike chances so the second Triple Air is worse than a first Lit 2.

[Kinerd]

A few things on the breakdown:

The Strength calculations are off. Kensei is +11, Barbarian is +20, yet the barbarian is only 5 ahead of the Kensei. Additionally, the Kensei is supposed to be half-elf, so it should be 2 behind from base stat. You also double-counted Orc Strength in Top Tier for the barb, and single-counted it for the half-elf kensei.
Average: 44 Kensei, 55 Barb. Top tier: 55 Kensei, 70 Barb.

In base damage bonus, you left out the +2 for Fighter Weapon Specialization enhancements.

Something really weird is going on with your seeker values. In Kensei twf top tier, you have 18 for seeker on crits, but you had 2 + 2 + 4 = 8 seeker rather than 6 in the layout. Same for the highest: you have 42 but 10 + 2 + 4 = 16 seeker rather than 14. You also use much lower seeker values for the offhand.

eSoS has big problems - it crits on 15-18 at x3. You've also multiplied the Damage Boost directly - it has the same 18.8 seconds on 10 seconds off property as Haste Boost. Speaking of which, you also haven't given the Damage Boost to the half-elf fighter, which it would almost certainly take.

[dTarkanan]

I could be wrong, but I don't think lightning strike is an on vorpal proc, is it? Thought it was a random roll like a disintegrate.

[Kinerd]

I was actually just thinking about how to use Haste Boosts and Damage Boosts at the same time last night, so let's explore some possibilities:

With Quickdraw, we have 0.6 seconds lost for each boost activated. So, if we used the boosts simultaneously we would have:
0.6 seconds - nothing
0.6 seconds - nothing
18.8 seconds - Haste and Damage
0.6 seconds - just Haste (it's very very slightly better to have the inferior boost eaten up by the second activation)
9.2 seconds - ordinary DPS

Repeating every 30 seconds. If we for the moment rule out anything Damage Boost doesn't apply to, we have:
0.6 * 0 + 0.6 * 0 + 18.8 * 1.3 * 1.25 + 0.6 * 1.3 + 9.2 = 40.53
(would be a paltry 40.5 if we activated Haste Boost first, THE HUMANITY [half-elfity, whatever])
40.53 / 30 = 1.351

If we instead alternate the two boosts, activating one just as the other boosted portion of the timer finishes, we would have:
0.6 seconds - nothing
19.4 seconds - Haste (or Damage)
0.6 seconds - nothing
19.4 seconds - Damage (or Haste)

Repeating every 40 seconds. This gives us:
19.4 * 1.3 + 19.4 * 1.25 = 49.47
49.47 / 40 = 1.24ish

This is inferior while boosts last, but there is much less variation in DPS and boosts will last 4/3 as long (potentially relevant with U11 boss buffs).

We could also try:
0.6 seconds - nothing
9.4 seconds - Damage
0.6 seconds - nothing
9.4 seconds - Haste and Damage
10 seconds - Haste

Repeating every 30 seconds.
9.4 * 1.25 + 9.4 * 1.3 * 1.25 + 10 * 1.3 = 40.025

And we can see that this will be slightly worse than the first option without offering any increased efficiency. It would, however, give a medium level of variation between the two options.

.

Now, let's try with the 25% Damage Boost only applying to 75% of total damage, or an effective 18.75% boost:
0.6 * 0 + 0.6 * 0 + 18.8 * 1.3 * 1.1875 + 0.6 * 1.3 + 9.2 = 39.0025
= 1.3

19.4 * 1.3 + 19.4 * 1.1875 = 48.2575
= 1.21

9.4 * 1.1875 + 9.4 * 1.3 * 1.1875 + 10 * 1.3 = 38.67375

So no real change. The third option does get slightly closer to the first option, though. There's probably a completely impractical case like Damage Boost only applying to 2% of total damage where it's better.

I could be wrong, but I don't think lightning strike is an on vorpal proc, is it? Thought it was a random roll like a disintegrate.

What he did there was take the average value (he uses 15.625), multiply by 20, and only have to write it out once.

[TheDjinnFor]

A few things on the breakdown

Yeah I effed up. Must have changed it 8 times because I kept forgetting things or changing the stats; it was originally a boss fight breakdown, too! Hence the inconsistencies.

I originally had them both as horcs until I realized the OP wanted a helf fighter. I also completely failed to consider the fighter damage and seeker bonuses in the original one, and hastely added them, of course missing the non-kensei one in the process.

And the ESoS... jeez, did I mess that one up. Eh.

You also use much lower seeker values for the offhand.

Was a copy+paste fail; the actual end value had the same as the main hand applied to it (was 90 and 210) although that's wrong too.

You've also multiplied the Damage Boost directly - it has the same 18.8 seconds on 10 seconds off property as Haste Boost.

I assumed trash DPS, which would die in quicker than 20 seconds of DPS. (Suppose I should add that to my assumption list).

I wonder if Vanshilars attack speeds for haste boost assume activation time; gonna have to read that thread again.

Speaking of which, you also haven't given the Damage Boost to the half-elf fighter, which it would almost certainly take.

Yeah I have, all of the Helf Fighter DPS calcs multiply their base damage by 1.25 in both mainhand and offhand breakdowns.

One more thing: racial and class boosts can be activated at the same time, so you don't take twice as much activation delay. Or, at least, from my experience you don't. Maybe the delay after activating them both is twice as long, but I know for a fact that if you hit both buttons at once it activates them at the exact same time.

[Therigar]

Which has the higher dps versus trash mobs?

Why should anyone care? There is a reason we refer to it as "trash."

[Kinerd]

I assumed trash DPS, which would die in quicker than 20 seconds of DPS. (Suppose I should add that to my assumption list).

Hm. I think this is not the way to go. While any individual trash will die in less than 20 seconds, certainly you will be fighting trash for more than 20 seconds in any given quest.

I wonder if Vanshilars attack speeds for haste boost assume activation time; gonna have to read that thread again.

Vanshilar's thread only gives you information about what happens while the boost is active. You can factor in Quickdraw or no, simultaneous boost or no, etc., yourself. It's the best way, for sure.

Yeah I have, all of the Helf Fighter DPS calcs multiply their base damage by 1.25 in both mainhand and offhand breakdowns.

Ah, so you did. My mistake.

[dTarkanan]

What he did there was take the average value (he uses 15.625), multiply by 20, and only have to write it out once.

Shouldn't it be multiplied by 19, though? It doesn't have a chance of proc'ing on crit misses.

[sheepface]

I could be wrong, but I don't think lightning strike is an on vorpal proc, is it? Thought it was a random roll like a disintegrate.

You are correct, it is not.

[R0cksteady]

I believe they're almost the same against trash, SoS on a Barb is a bit ahead of TWF on a fighter against bosses. Maybe that will change with alchemical weapons though.