What's The Harm in Having 6 Strength?

[Stahse]

So I'm planning my TR into a monk although I have read the wiki articles, I'm still a little confused. If I create a halfling dex-based monk and do not raise strength at all (save for +6 item and buffs) what will that do to my character?

I understand that Weapon Finesse changes the to-hit with light weapons, but I'm guessing that it doesn't affect damage. Is this true with all weapons, including fists?

If dex doesn't affect damage, are the weapons that have dex-based damage common enough? Staff of Nat Gann is an example. What other weapons are there?

[Chaos000]

one ray of enfeeblement and you lose your monk stance if you are under heavy encumbrance.

[blkcat1028]

The biggest issue I've run into with my monk, who has a 10 str (base), is becoming encumbered. Either by carrying loot or getting enfeebled, it makes you un-centered, none of your monk abilities work, and it kicks you out of your stance.

I couldn't imagine how annoying it would be with even less str.

[eonfreon]

You will be easily encumbered. While encumbered you will not be centered and will not be able to use most of your Monk abilities. Do not completely dump Str on a melee character. Str does affect your damage. ANd there are far too few items to add your Dex to damage. Others will have to pipe in about other weapons, because I just don't know on that score.

[Hecore]

You also can't take Power Attack, so in many circumstances (assuming you hit anyway) you're down another 5 damage.

[jaegarnel]

There are a lot more ways to boost strength rather than dex too (rage clickies for instance), so aside from being easily encumbered and doing less damage, a dex-based character will also have lower to-hit than a strength-based one.

There is nothing wrong with maxing dex, but you should have a decent strength as well, because weapons that use dex for dmg are rare and usually epics, so levelling would be extremely painful on a 6 strength halfling.
Lots of caster mobs from lvl 5 to 10 or so love to spam ray of enfeeblement and being helpless is bad and boring. I speak from experience, because my wizard has 9 base strength and the early levels when I couldn't afford a decent strength item were a real pain. Even now, I frequently get encumbered after I take some strength damage, and I have to swap in a +6 strength ring more often than I'd like.

Remember that even if you spend most of your time at 20, you still need to get there first, which can take a while on a TR, and there is no reason to make that levelling even more of a painful grind than it already is by making a toon that will take forever to kill anything until you can equip that twink gear you need.

[Calebro]

Melee attacks add Str to damage.
Melee characters should follow the same rules for Str as they do for Con.
Every single character that primarily fights in melee should spend starting build points on a 1-to-1 basis, at the minimum. That means 12 for halflings, and 14 for other races, at a bare minimum. This is true even if you're building a finesse character.
There are very very few times that this rule should be broken.

[AMDarkwolf]

Hell, even with 17 base(24 after buffs/levels) u can quite easily be tossed into non-centered with a ray of enfeeblement, so I can't for the life of me, imagine leveling a 6 base str monk.

Can u say 'if caster is in quest, said monk will be dead'? Remember if anything gets u to 0 str(easily managed by any caster mob that does ray, or if u get hit by 6 shadows, or any number of other things) means u can't even drink potions, u suddenly move very very slow, u can't attack, can't use abilities, etc. IE: Useless to the party.

[NovaNZ]

LOL - I luv it Stahse! Pure simple entertainment! Bar-halfling .... More ale!!

[Stahse]

Well, the focus seems to be on ray of enfeeblement, but that really is a tertiary issue. Even with 6 strength I would equip a strength item. By the time I see ray of enfeeblement I would have a +6 item, so a 12 strength. It's not all that easy to incapacitate.

With the feedback I've gotten though, I can see that this kind of a build would be a massive challenge. That might be fun.

So.....if you're up for the challenge, let's play devil's advocate for a sec. Let's say that you are stuck with a halfling monk with 10 or less strength, 18 dex, 14 con, 18 wis, and are determined to make it work. Nat Gann's staff is probably the first weapon to grab. It's level 5 and getting to 5 is easily achievable by a wizard with 6 int, so I should manage it. The focus is AC and saves. Dragontouched vestments with AC/Saves/AC, Ioun stone (the AC one), and the Dodge feat. What equipment can help this build? (Namely looking for other weapon ideas)

[Calebro]

Well, the focus seems to be on ray of enfeeblement, but that really is a tertiary issue. Even with 6 strength I would equip a strength item. By the time I see ray of enfeeblement I would have a +6 item, so a 12 strength. It's not all that easy to incapacitate.

This is simply untrue.
You start getting hit with rays around Irestone, where you might have a +2 item on.
That's 8 Str. Drop that by a few from the ray and you're encumbered. Your Flurry of Blows slows to nothing. You'd need to drink a lesser resto pot or three, then activate stance again, just so that you could be hit with another ray and have to do it all over again.
On the times that it drops your Str to zero, you get killed, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Seriously. Roll a new toon with that build, and play a few levels.
If you do it on a TR you'll be spending cash on a Heart of Wood. You came to the forums for advice. You've received good advice. Don't ignore it.
If you ignore the advice given here, then why would you even come to ask us?

It's not like you've received a few different opinions. Every single person has told you the exact same thing.
Don't you think that should tell you something?

[Satinavian]

by a wizard with 6 int, so I should manage it

So i assume, you do not plan a pure monk but one of those undead-mellees ?

Might be worth mentioning.

And iirc Zombie and Lich unarmed boni don't work with any dex-damage-weapons.

[Stahse]

You came to the forums for advice. You've received good advice. Don't ignore it.
If you ignore the advice given here, then why would you even come to ask us?

It's not like you've received a few different opinions. Every single person has told you the exact same thing.
Don't you think that should tell you something?

Thanks for the clarification on Ray of Enfeeblement. I don't recall seeing it that early and didn't consider the encumbrance issue.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting the advice I receive here. I appreciate the feedback from everyone and am taking it into consideration but I can be a bit slow sometimes.

That said, I am simply curious about an AC build and toying with ideas. If someone has a link to an AC build that works, I would appreciate it. (I always have trouble finding credible builds).

[Calebro]

If someone has a link to an AC build that works, I would appreciate it. (I always have trouble finding credible builds).

Does it have to be a monk?
I have a Monk splash Pally build that can easily achieve elite Horoth level AC when epically geared, and can hit the numbers for Horoth on normal or hard without a ton of gear (or for elite with the proper buffs/party-makeup).
Take a look.

[NovaNZ]

More importantly .... does it have to have STR of 6?

[jaegarnel]

Actually ray of enfeeblement is a low-level spell and casters use it a lot in quests like Tear of Dhakaan and such. You won't have access to +6 strength items by then.
All I can tell you from my experience is that even as a wizard, having only 9 base strength was a challenge early on when soloing. And that was despite the fact that my damage doesn't at all depend on strength, unlike a monk. Challenging yourself is good, but being helpless is no fun.


Still, assuming you really want to do this, I'd advise you to farm for the staff of Nat-Gan before playing your monk, because getting it at level on Chronoscope runs would require you to be very lucky, and you pretty much need that weapon to be effective early on. AFAIK, it's the only low-lvl weapon that uses dex for damage.

Other weapon options that use Dex for both attack and damage are limited to Breeze (staff from the Ascension raid) and Epic Zephyr, I think.

[Ugumagre]

You also have a lot of low level quests (WW, Freshen the air, Proof is in the Poison) with Str. damage through poison or enfeeblement, and some mid level quests (I think Sands and Tears) were it is really a nuisance.

We do not want so see this post again in a few weeks:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=306500

[Stahse]

Does it have to be a monk?
I have a Monk splash Pally build that can easily achieve elite Horoth level AC when epically geared, and can hit the numbers for Horoth on normal or hard without a ton of gear (or for elite with the proper buffs/party-makeup).
Take a look.

Well, I've got a paladin past life and am just trying to round them out. I chose monk because....well just because. I'm not set on my build yet though and have been wanting to try and AC build of some sort. It seemed kinda fun to have high AC, high saves and then throw a lavender ioun stone on to handle the spells. This might just be kind of a dumb dream though. I have lots of those.

More importantly .... does it have to have STR of 6?

I'm not set on a strength of 6, not on a monk AC build necessarily. I would like to see one though so I can determine if it is viable.

I appreciate the advice.

[Calebro]

Well, I've got a paladin past life and am just trying to round them out. I chose monk because....well just because. I'm not set on my build yet though and have been wanting to try and AC build of some sort. It seemed kinda fun to have high AC, high saves and then throw a lavender ioun stone on to handle the spells. This might just be kind of a dumb dream though. I have lots of those.

If you're absolutely determined to do a finesse halfling monk on a TR, instead of this:

10 or less strength, 18 dex, 14 con, 18 wis,

Try something like this:
Str 14, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8
That's only 2 less AC than you'd have with your build, but it won't be *completely* gimped in melee and it won't suffer from Ray issues.

[BDog77]

When i first started this game, I thought "Why not a halfling dex based rogue, I just won't add anything to str..."


That character was my fastest reroll! I couldn't even equip the Korthos island items without becoming encumbered. I joke now and say he couldn't wear 2 rings without being encumbered, but honestly, it wasn't much more than that.....