Hunter of the Dead prereq's

[CanuckWisdom]

Kind of annoy me, because there is almost no undead, compared to evil outsiders, above level ~15, but it requires DOUBLE the action points as compared to KotC.

Why? I dont think its an obviously better PrE. In fact, the only reason Im considering it is for the healing amp.

I didnt check to compare it to other classes PrE costs, but this prereq is in addition to having to take a faith line to get the third tier, which I would have little to no interest in taking if it wasnt required for third tier PrE.

BTW, when I say double, thats not including the 'and one of' portion for both KotC and HotD, because I would have the prereqs for either of them anyways.

Just complaining. Or hoping someone can explain/justify why the third tier of HotD has pre-reqs that KotC don't have the equivalent of.

[elraido]

Kind of annoy me, because there is almost no undead, compared to evil outsiders, above level ~15, but it requires DOUBLE the action points as compared to KotC.

Why? I dont think its an obviously better PrE. In fact, the only reason Im considering it is for the healing amp.

I didnt check to compare it to other classes PrE costs, but this prereq is in addition to having to take a faith line to get the third tier, which I would have little to no interest in taking if it wasnt required for third tier PrE.

BTW, when I say double, thats not including the 'and one of' portion for both KotC and HotD, because I would have the prereqs for either of them anyways.

Just complaining. Or hoping someone can explain/justify why the third tier of HotD has pre-reqs that KotC don't have the equivalent of.

Ever since they had the teleporter to the Devils Battlefield and he asked where you wanted to go: Amarath, Dolurth, or Lamania (I think those are kind of how you spell them ) I kept drooling over the thought of high level undead for the HotD to really shine. Now that I think about it, with the changes to Disruption needing less than 1000 hp to work, their vorpal strike on undead just became awesome. HotD with trip pos weapons and capstone.
Base damage + Holy + Pure good + good burst + good blast + Capstone + HotD set + disruption damage + greater disruption kill effect + vorpal effect.

[Spoonwelder]

Look at stalwart defender it's even worse......just chalk it up as the Paladin being the current red headed step child everyone wants to punch in the face.

It will all come around some day but don't count on it anytime Soon(tm).

[coolpenguin410]

Kind of annoy me, because there is almost no undead, compared to evil outsiders, above level ~15, but it requires DOUBLE the action points as compared to KotC.

Why? I dont think its an obviously better PrE. In fact, the only reason Im considering it is for the healing amp.

I didnt check to compare it to other classes PrE costs, but this prereq is in addition to having to take a faith line to get the third tier, which I would have little to no interest in taking if it wasnt required for third tier PrE.

BTW, when I say double, thats not including the 'and one of' portion for both KotC and HotD, because I would have the prereqs for either of them anyways.

Just complaining. Or hoping someone can explain/justify why the third tier of HotD has pre-reqs that KotC don't have the equivalent of.

I agree. While with a small investment in Turn Undead enhancing items you can make Turning viable and useful on a Paladin Hunter of the Dead, it's not very dependable. The main reason to take it is for the healing amp and neg level immunity, even then it's a hard sell. While I don't really want more undead content, there's not enough to make this kind of PrE really useful at end game. It really should be cheaper (or just more useful).

[rjbutchko]

I would really LOVE to see high level undead content and some Paladin tweaking. Ive always enjoyed playing pallys in other games, but here in Eberron they really kinda suck. I TRd my pally some time ago and I havent given it much thought, but do paladins get Divine Punishment?

[FrozenNova]

I would really LOVE to see high level undead content and some Paladin tweaking. Ive always enjoyed playing pallys in other games, but here in Eberron they really kinda suck. I TRd my pally some time ago and I havent given it much thought, but do paladins get Divine Punishment?

Oh man. That would be beautiful.

An idea with merit though. A stacking dot from smites?

[hcarr]

Its a nice pre but nothing really unique about it. Many of the things you get from it you can get from gear unlike other prestige lines. What am I going to do with 11 greater restorations. Only time I use them is fighting named beholders for the stat damage. What would be nice is if they give this a pass and update like they did the defender line.

[CanuckWisdom]

The negative energy reduction and the restoration, on top of the positive energy boost is all very nice, but its not so nice that it needs twice the prereq cost of the most popular pally PrE.


A bit of a different topic, but you guys are commenting on how folks feel about paladins. It sucks when you join a group and then people say, aw no pally's their dps sucks.

A dps boost for paladins would be nice, but more so, I'd like more acknowledgement for paladin aura's, they boost everyones saves, armor, concentration and when does anyone ever say, good thing we had a paladin here so we could make the saves for that trap etc.

I wouldnt expect it, but if your gonna acknowledge that they have lower dps than a barb for example, why not speak out and acknowledge what they bring that a barb doesnt.

/still venting

[Phidius]

...

I wouldnt expect it, but if your gonna acknowledge that they have lower dps than a barb for example, why not speak out and acknowledge what they bring that a barb doesnt.

/still venting

They did - they acknowledge that the Pally brings lower DPS that the barb doesn't.

I don't mean to pour salt on your wounds, but as long as the game plan is to surround the big bad boss and pour healing into the group like Niagra falls, if you're not boosting the group's DPS, you're not bringing anything.

Those raid parties that use the tank-and-spank, however, will probably acknowledge that your aura helps the tank avoid soaking the assigned healer(s) dry, so there's a little consolation.

[smeggy1384]

The negative energy reduction and the restoration, on top of the positive energy boost is all very nice, but its not so nice that it needs twice the prereq cost of the most popular pally PrE.


A bit of a different topic, but you guys are commenting on how folks feel about paladins. It sucks when you join a group and then people say, aw no pally's their dps sucks.

A dps boost for paladins would be nice, but more so, I'd like more acknowledgement for paladin aura's, they boost everyones saves, armor, concentration and when does anyone ever say, good thing we had a paladin here so we could make the saves for that trap etc.

I wouldnt expect it, but if your gonna acknowledge that they have lower dps than a barb for example, why not speak out and acknowledge what they bring that a barb doesnt.

/still venting

I'd change part of that a bit: good thing we had a paladin here to carry our stones past that trap we zerged into!

[Corwinsky]

but more so, I'd like more acknowledgement for paladin aura's, they boost everyones saves, armor, concentration and when does anyone ever say, good thing we had a paladin here so we could make the saves for that trap etc.

In epic AC is useless, casters have more likely than not quicken turnt on if they expect to be heavily hit on so don't need to succeed on their concentration checks.

That means only saves boost is useful.
Most mobs are doing damages through physical hits and when they don't you usually need to flee them (Abishai in cold form, fire breath from Velah) so you're not close to the tank or others to give them the extra saves and saving would probably not keep you alive if you don't have evasion anyway. [due to lag got hit by Velah breath once before being able to hide behind rock for over 1480hp]

That's why the aura is useful only for yourself if you are a tank with lot of HPs and evasion.
12/6/2 with 12 or 6 being paladin levels for the save aura (and incite spell) and 2 being a class with evasion usually

[Kinerd]

Update 11 is seriously rocking the paladin PrE boat: significant amount of endgame content with no evil outsiders and buffs for Stalwart Defender. Paladins are the only classes beside monk that can get professional healing amp, I wouldn't pooh pooh HotD so quickly.

Yes, paladins have DPS issues, but that's not a problem with any individual PrE.

[elraido]

In epic AC is useless, casters have more likely than not quicken turnt on if they expect to be heavily hit on so don't need to succeed on their concentration checks.

That means only saves boost is useful.
Most mobs are doing damages through physical hits and when they don't you usually need to flee them (Abishai in cold form, fire breath from Velah) so you're not close to the tank or others to give them the extra saves and saving would probably not keep you alive if you don't have evasion anyway. [due to lag got hit by Velah breath once before being able to hide behind rock for over 1480hp]

That's why the aura is useful only for yourself if you are a tank with lot of HPs and evasion.
12/6/2 with 12 or 6 being paladin levels for the save aura (and incite spell) and 2 being a class with evasion usually

A paladin doesn't have to run from Velah all the time. I stood threw 3 of her epic fire attacks...could have gone threw 6 if I didn't waste my LOH. For all of the min/maxers out there, calculate how much extra dps a paladin is doing standing in there and attacking while everyone else is running away.