DPS Breakdown

[Taimasan]

Personally I have been seeing alot of DPS breakdowns for other classes regarding TWF but I would like to know numbers wise where the math is at for monks!!

Example:
38 str 2d12 x3 19-20 *Dark:ToD Specced* / $Alternate Shintao III specced w/ smite$

using:



equipped and with Cannith Combat Infusion burning come U11.




It would be nice to know the tools/resources available to calculate this dps if even possible, so I can do it myself if needed. Thanks.

[elg582]

Well, I'm not sure how everyone else is calculating their DPS, but here's how I broke it down (ignoring haste):

+5 Khopesh kensei 3 TWF 30 STR w/ imp. critical(86.7 attacks / min) =
(33*26.5 + 33*20.5*0.8)(20 attacks, missing on a 1)* 86.7/20 = 6137 damage/minute

+5 unarmed earth 3 30 STR w/ imp. critical(93.2 attacks / min) =
(23*33 + 23*33*0.8)(20 attacks, missing on a 1)* 93.2/20 = 6366 damage/minute

+5 unarmed wind 3 30 STR w/ imp. critical(93.2 attacks / min) =
(21*33 + 21*33*0.8)(20 attacks, missing on a 1)* 93.2/20 * 1.075 = 6248 damage/minute

Of course, speed boosts (haste, tempest, haste boosts if you multi) and benefit monks, while base damage/power attack/etc benefit the higher crit rate of khopeshes. IMO, overall DPS is a wash, except against fort enemies, where the monk pulls ahead significantly.

Combine this with the other monk abilities, and you start to see why they don't want to include monks on their little list: Because you don't rank professionals with amateurs

[grodon9999]

30 STR? Really?

You can plug monks in the DPS calc but the estimate isn't as accurate compared to the other classes. Ki strikes and all that jazz makes it very complicated.

[elg582]

30 STR? Really?

OK, I'll redo with 40 STR (oh, forgot to include damage bonuses in my earlier calc, it's +7 from items, enhancements, etc):

+5 Khopesh kensei 3 TWF 40 STR w/ imp. critical(86.7 attacks / min) = 7253/min


+5 unarmed earth 3 40 STR w/ imp. critical(93.2 attacks / min) = 7331/min


+5 unarmed wind 3 40 STR w/ imp. critical(93.2 attacks / min) = 7195/min


Or with haste:

+5 Khopesh kensei 3 TWF 40 STR w/ imp. critical(102.2 attacks / min) = 8550/min


+5 unarmed earth 3 40 STR w/ imp. critical(111.3 attacks / min) = 8755/min


+5 unarmed wind 3 40 STR w/ imp. critical(111.3 attacks / min) = 8593/min


OK, you want the real bastard? Let's say 12 monk/8 fighter or rogue for haste boosts (note: I know you can't stay haste boosted, but if you want to convince me that fighters get better DPS, that's not a good argument ):

+5 Khopesh kensei 3 TWF 40 STR w/ imp. critical(HBIV and haste 138.5 attacks / min) = 11586/min


+5 unarmed earth 3 40 STR w/ imp. critical(HBIII and haste 147.5 attacks / min) = 11602/min


+5 unarmed wind 3 40 STR w/ imp. critical(HBIII and haste 147.5/ min) = 11388/min


And, of course, this is against 0 fort enemies.

You can plug monks in the DPS calc but the estimate isn't as accurate compared to the other classes. Ki strikes and all that jazz makes it very complicated.

Not really; ki strikes you add up from amount of ki generated by hits, limited by cooldowns. The DPS calc's problem is that it doesn't take into account unarmed attack speed being ~10% faster than TWF.

[grodon9999]

The DPS calc's problem is that it doesn't take into account unarmed attack speed being ~10% faster than TWF.

it does, select the type as un-armed and not TWFing.

[lopter]

mind doing a breakdown on

12ftr kensai 2 with 8 mnk + pl mnk + vestments
full on haste iv+damage iv helf
rogue pl
rogue sneak atk dilly

can i get the dpm on this str?
kensai 2 str boost + titans grips + madstones + self buffed 44 str (38 standing + rage +2 ship +2 yugo)

and just with
44 str

and as a baseline
40 str

and is there a way to add in stun 50%+ to dps (as an aside for non boss dps)

and what mnk weapons are you using for the calc?
what gear as well*

[elg582]

mind doing a breakdown on

12ftr kensai 2 with 8 mnk + pl mnk + vestments
full on haste iv+damage iv helf
rogue pl
rogue sneak atk dilly

can i get the dpm on this str?
kensai 2 str boost + titans grips + madstones + self buffed 44 str (38 standing + rage +2 ship +2 yugo)

and just with
44 str

and as a baseline
40 str

and is there a way to add in stun 50%+ to dps (as an aside for non boss dps)

and what mnk weapons are you using for the calc?
what gear as well*

I was using generic +5 handwraps and some gear for damage bonus (claw set, for example), and PL monk and either jidz'teka or GoE for unarmed damage. This isn't taking into account things like effect damage, ki strikes, etc, as it's not supposed to be an accurate reflection of "real" dps but a relative measure.

As for your builds, I'm confused; are those both supposed to be unarmed?

[lopter]

Yes all 3 sets include fists only

I'm interested what the diff is between 5%? More haste and kensai 2 vs mnk increased die step

Also want to see how the helf s\a and new dam boost will figure in

Also all dps numbers given in dpm? Ie the blitz listed at 520somethingis comparable?

[elg582]

12ftr kensai 2 with 8 mnk + pl mnk + vestments
full on haste iv+damage iv helf
I'm not including sneak attacks, for a variety of reasons
40 STR, haste, HB IV, damage boost IV

= 13707


kensai 2 str boost + titans grips + madstones + self buffed 44 str (38 standing + rage +2 ship +2 yugo)

= 17500

and just with
44 str

= 14469

and as a baseline
40 str

= 13708


Edit:

And for further reference, Helf 12 monk/8 fighter earth 3 rage, madstone, ship, yugo, titan's grip, HBIII, damage boost IV

= 16793


Yes, these are all DPM, divide by 60 for DPS, but since I'm not including extra damage, it doesn't compare properly to however the other guys are doing it.

[lopter]

Hmm still not breaking 300 dps

Were tod rings included or the burst effects?

[elg582]

Hmm still not breaking 300 dps

Were tod rings included or the burst effects?

Again, no, not counting any additional weapon effects, rings, ki strikes, touch of death, smite tainted, etc. This is base damage, for comparison only.

[Kinerd]

The DPS spreadsheet available here covers everything that everyone else uses. All that remains are ki strikes, which are mostly pretty easy to calculate.

All the non-earth elemental strikes are just blah damage every 3 seconds, so you do:
blah damage per process * 1.8 processes per strike / 3 seconds per strike = blah * 0.6 DPS
And remember to account for elemental resistances/immunities (no fire strikes on Arraetrikos). If you're in Wind Stance whatever, add the double-strike chance to processes per strike. For instance: (1.8 + .1) = 1.9 processes per strike for Wind Stance 4.

Earth you should account for physical damage crits, which means you have to account for fortification and what stance you're going to be in. Outside of Earth 3+, you multiply by (17 + 2 * (2 * (1 - fort) + 1 * fort)) / 20 = (21 - 2 * fort) / 20. In Earth 3+, you use (23 - 4 * fort) / 20. Including the acid bursts is not worth your effort: the acid from Earth strike 4 is worth a whopping 0.7 DPS. (You should also include the include the increased critical multiplier in the spreadsheet, fyi.)

Touch of Death is the same except you use 15 seconds instead of 3. Touch of Death also is a little tricky in that it's not really based on processes per strike, so at monk speed you can get apparent bonus processes. My advice is to stick with 1.8 (or whatever) and expect to do very slightly higher. There's also the trouble of having a save, and most important targets don't have widely available information on their saves. Might as well guess! If you land Touch of Despair, that's worth factoring in as well.

Triple Earth finisher is trickier, because it's hard to rigorously establish a frequency for it. If you try for it all, do you get it off twice in between ToDs? Once? Once and a half? Once you have that, you do (25 - 6 * fort) / (21 - 2 * fort) multiplied by your multipliable damage (Strength, Power Attack, etc.) and processes per strike, divided by whatever you've established as a period. It won't end up being a huge factor, so don't worry too much about it.

[sirgog]

The DPS spreadsheet available here covers everything that everyone else uses. All that remains are ki strikes, which are mostly pretty easy to calculate.

All the non-earth elemental strikes are just blah damage every 3 seconds, so you do:
blah damage per process * 1.8 processes per strike / 3 seconds per strike = blah * 0.6 DPS
And remember to account for elemental resistances/immunities (no fire strikes on Arraetrikos). If you're in Wind Stance whatever, add the double-strike chance to processes per strike. For instance: (1.8 + .1) = 1.9 processes per strike for Wind Stance 4.

Earth you should account for physical damage crits, which means you have to account for fortification and what stance you're going to be in. Outside of Earth 3+, you multiply by (17 + 2 * (2 * (1 - fort) + 1 * fort)) / 20 = (21 - 2 * fort) / 20. In Earth 3+, you use (23 - 4 * fort) / 20. Including the acid bursts is not worth your effort: the acid from Earth strike 4 is worth a whopping 0.7 DPS. (You should also include the include the increased critical multiplier in the spreadsheet, fyi.)

Touch of Death is the same except you use 15 seconds instead of 3. Touch of Death also is a little tricky in that it's not really based on processes per strike, so at monk speed you can get apparent bonus processes. My advice is to stick with 1.8 (or whatever) and expect to do very slightly higher. There's also the trouble of having a save, and most important targets don't have widely available information on their saves. Might as well guess! If you land Touch of Despair, that's worth factoring in as well.

Triple Earth finisher is trickier, because it's hard to rigorously establish a frequency for it. If you try for it all, do you get it off twice in between ToDs? Once? Once and a half? Once you have that, you do (25 - 6 * fort) / (21 - 2 * fort) multiplied by your multipliable damage (Strength, Power Attack, etc.) and processes per strike, divided by whatever you've established as a period. It won't end up being a huge factor, so don't worry too much about it.

One other factor in DPS calculations is looking at how much potential strike damage you sacrifice to set off light finishers. Very hard to quantify, but I know I use a few otherwise suboptimal strikes (such as Fire against Turigulon) to set off finishers that are useful for that encounter (+2 to-hit in that case). Likewise I use Electric strikes on the Demon of the Frenzied Blood encounter if we've gone into the fight without Blur being passed around, as often happens when grouped with a Sorc that has only Displacement.

[Kinerd]

One other factor in DPS calculations is looking at how much potential strike damage you sacrifice to set off light finishers. Very hard to quantify, but I know I use a few otherwise suboptimal strikes (such as Fire against Turigulon) to set off finishers that are useful for that encounter (+2 to-hit in that case). Likewise I use Electric strikes on the Demon of the Frenzied Blood encounter if we've gone into the fight without Blur being passed around, as often happens when grouped with a Sorc that has only Displacement.

Oh yeah, lighties have a bunch of other issues for sure. I'm still not positive what Smite works on.

[Corwinsky]

12ftr kensai 2 with 8 mnk + pl mnk + vestments
full on haste iv+damage iv helf
I'm not including sneak attacks, for a variety of reasons
40 STR, haste, HB IV, damage boost IV

Does the boost on Monks lasts 1 full minute?
Otherwise shouldn't you use a ration in your calc on how long it lasts versus how long you have to wait before being able to relaunch it to have a fairer damage value against a boss?

[Soleran]

Well, I'm not sure how everyone else is calculating their DPS, but here's how I broke it down (ignoring haste):

+5 Khopesh kensei 3 TWF 30 STR w/ imp. critical(86.7 attacks / min) =
(33*26.5 + 33*20.5*0.8)(20 attacks, missing on a 1)* 86.7/20 = 6137 damage/minute

+5 unarmed earth 3 30 STR w/ imp. critical(93.2 attacks / min) =
(23*33 + 23*33*0.8)(20 attacks, missing on a 1)* 93.2/20 = 6366 damage/minute

+5 unarmed wind 3 30 STR w/ imp. critical(93.2 attacks / min) =
(21*33 + 21*33*0.8)(20 attacks, missing on a 1)* 93.2/20 * 1.075 = 6248 damage/minute

Of course, speed boosts (haste, tempest, haste boosts if you multi) and benefit monks, while base damage/power attack/etc benefit the higher crit rate of khopeshes. IMO, overall DPS is a wash, except against fort enemies, where the monk pulls ahead significantly.

Combine this with the other monk abilities, and you start to see why they don't want to include monks on their little list: Because you don't rank professionals with amateurs

If you are using windstance make sure you figure in it's double strike, it should have more attacks per minute due to 10% ds same with 20 fighter.

[elg582]

If you are using windstance make sure you figure in it's double strike, it should have more attacks per minute due to 10% ds same with 20 fighter.

I have it figured into the final damage.

[Soleran]

I have it figured into the final damage.

+5 Khopesh kensei 3 TWF 40 STR w/ imp. critical(86.7 attacks / min) = 7253/min


+5 unarmed earth 3 40 STR w/ imp. critical(93.2 attacks / min) = 7331/min


+5 unarmed wind 3 40 STR w/ imp. critical(93.2 attacks / min) = 7195/min

It didn't look that way here you used 93.2 for both monk stances.

[elg582]

+5 Khopesh kensei 3 TWF 40 STR w/ imp. critical(86.7 attacks / min) = 7253/min


+5 unarmed earth 3 40 STR w/ imp. critical(93.2 attacks / min) = 7331/min


+5 unarmed wind 3 40 STR w/ imp. critical(93.2 attacks / min) = 7195/min

It didn't look that way here you used 93.2 for both monk stances.

I put it in as a multiplier against the raw damage, rather than confuse the issue by counting double strike like off-hand proc or enhancement boost.

Edit: FYI, I put in what I could into the DPS calculator (thanks for telling me about the fighting style drop box, I had missed that), and 12 monk/8 fighter (12/7/1, whatever) comes in ~450ish in wind 3, but that's not including ki strikes. I couldn't get it to figure the earth 3 multi at all, but since my other calcs showed it having roughly similar damage, I imagine that it will come out likewise.

In short, 12 monk is just as viable as 12 fighter for DPS.

[crimsonrazac]

In my opinion a monk's dps is practically impossible to calculate. The class truly is like playing the piano and the damage output relies heavily on the player utilizing their abilities and button mashing out all your earth strikes and having a high enough dc on your jade strike that its as close to no fail as possible.

I'm personally a huge fan of wind IV because it raises the chance that a mob will have to make multiple saves against a debuffing effect like sf for trash and jade strike for boss mobs