To Sing or Not To Sing - That is MY Question

[beingchanged]

I can attest - you will quickly be banned from all endgame content unless you make sure & sing LOUDLY and OFTEN into the mic while your bard plays songs.... this is a requirement.

This could be a serious problem. I am kind of shy and prefer not to share my singing voice with others. But I have no problem using voice chat to talk. I wonder if exceptions might be made for women who use voice chat....

[Lyzernn]

This could be a serious problem. I am kind of shy and prefer not to share my singing voice with others. But I have no problem using voice chat to talk. I wonder if exceptions might be made for women who use voice chat....

We, men, are weak minded and I'm sure if you do a pretty voice they won't care if you sing or whistle, just as long as they know you're a girl with a pretty voice.


Pervs

[beingchanged]

This is actually exactly what I am looking for!!!

• Bluff is probably unnecessary since you won't be pulling, dealing sneak attack damage and won't need the -25% hate. Personally I'd put it in Jump or Tumble cause I like moving around.
  

• Very valid point. I was unsure how much aggro a bard actually pulled, so I was trying to minimize my chances.
  
  

• About the feats - I see what you're trying to make is a CC Bard, the fats as they are right now aren't very suitable for healing, if you want to heal effectively you'll need Maximize and Quicken, trade from Spell Pen and Empower Spell. Either way I'm not sure the Spell Pen feats will help you much since not every spell has that issue and not every mob has it either.

[Lyzernn]

That 4th one may be replaced with Music of Dead....Do you think that is too late in level to take that enhancement?

I'm not as experienced as you might think, I only know about Bards by personal experience 'til Level 13, I mainly study classes a lot and read the forums, so I wouldn't know if Music of the Dead would be useful later on. I, myself won't get it, Fascinate is already obsolete since people don't have consideration for sleeps and in raids it's even more obsolete since a group of 12 people can easily handle a bunch of mobs much better than a group of 6. But if you want to get it and focus a bit more on CC, it's quite valuable with the right group.

I love it. Keep them coming. There is no better way to build the perfect bard, but you can sure come close by considering the opinions of those who have already played them.

Thank you Lyzernn!

Hehe, just sharing my info like others have shared theirs with me.

[jydog100]

looks good so far, a few changes you may want to consider:

Stats: ok

Feats: switch extend/sp pen...you will get haste at lvl 7, having it extended at that point will be better then a boost in spell pen. most mobs at that level wont matter

maximize instead of empower, move it to lvl 12 and drop 12/15 to 15/18. boost in healing > dc/sp pen (spell points not really an issue, get more bang for the feat cost)

quicken? not necessary. healing will be a rotation of spells with scrolls mixed in. practice, you'll get it. keep concentration maxxed, you'll be ok

Skills: max Pefrorm/UMD/concentration/diplo, put 1 point into tumble, no more then 10 into jump and the rest into balance/haggle

Enhancements: this is the area you have the most flexibility so you may want to play around so just a few comments on the few questioned.

the ability to fascinate undead/constructs is amazing but only if your party allows you time, if not if may go unused for long periods of time. nice to have.

lingering song III, IV. not really needed. songs will be long enough. maybe III but...
extra song III, IV. again, not needed. you get plenty and...(see below) (Im not looking at SS requirement atm but if either is required then take) also, may need it to take music of the dead etc

wand and scroll mastery?? you will want as much as you can fit in. if you want to be an effective healer, scrolls will be a big part of your healing rotation. the flip side is with high charisma comes high haggle/umd, scrolls will be alot cheaper, also try to gather as many mass heal scrolls as you can, your umd WILL get high enough to use. also, carry recon/repair scrolls, WF will love you. you'll find you will carry/use lots of scrolls

(from above) you will receive a corroded rapier in the mail from lazz, upgrade it to Elyd Edge and use for song regen, if you dont think you're gonna be in much combat use in the off hand. also as you browse thru your gear let me know what you may need. ive probably got it gathering dust somewhere. (use or dont, dont worry ive got a few more)


on my SS, scrolls are my best friend. blasting off wail of the banshee scrolls from my "squishy" little bard startles alot of people and with artificer coming out i feel its only gonna get better. high und (54+) is a wonderful thing!

Hope that helps, enjoy.,

[beingchanged]

Feats: switch extend/sp pen...you will get haste at lvl 7, having it extended at that point will be better then a boost in spell pen. most mobs at that level wont matter

Do you think spell penetration is a needed feat or should I switch it out for something more valuable?

the ability to fascinate undead/constructs is amazing but only if your party allows you time, if not if may go unused for long periods of time. nice to have.

At this point, I am not really sure if I want to take the Undead/contructs fascinate. It does require Extra Song IV. I may wait it out a little before I decide.

wand and scroll mastery?? you will want as much as you can fit in. if you want to be an effective healer, scrolls will be a big part of your healing rotation. the flip side is with high charisma comes high haggle/umd, scrolls will be alot cheaper, also try to gather as many mass heal scrolls as you can, your umd WILL get high enough to use. also, carry recon/repair scrolls, WF will love you. you'll find you will carry/use lots of scrolls

I hadn't considered the use of scrolls or wands for healing. Is that as effective as using spells? I carry wands on my cleric, but they are just used for emergency situations or healing myself.

(from above) you will receive a corroded rapier in the mail from lazz, upgrade it to Elyd Edge and use for song regen, if you dont think you're gonna be in much combat use in the off hand. also as you browse thru your gear let me know what you may need. ive probably got it gathering dust somewhere. (use or dont, dont worry ive got a few more)

THANK YOU very much!!! I appreciate all your input and the rapier. I am still trying to see what gear I have laying around in banks on my toons. My guess is I have little that is bard related. But I do have some items that will boost sp.

on my SS, scrolls are my best friend. blasting off wail of the banshee scrolls from my "squishy" little bard startles alot of people and with artificer coming out i feel its only gonna get better. high und (54+) is a wonderful thing!

That is SWEET! I have definitely been maxing umd. I can't wait to surprise you with what I can do.
And thank you so much for your help!

[jydog100]

I hadn't considered the use of scrolls or wands for healing. Is that as effective as using spells? I carry wands on my cleric, but they are just used for emergency situations or healing myself.

scroll healing is a must for a bard at higher levels. cure crit is your best single taget cure spell and can be a little short at higher levels with the amount of hp's available. a melee with the right healing amp can be scrolled healed for 450+ on the right bard. with cool downs on spells/scrolls you have to play with the right combos.

I was along when a very good bard solo healed epic devils assult, yea, that wasn't normal but worked. I've been asked to keep some good melees (fleshie and WF) alive and worked out ok. with a little practice and some gear you can solo heal alot more then you think. next time i see you on ill give you some gear suggestions

[beingchanged]

Elladrielle has run a total of three quests now. (I know that seems like I am wearing her out, but she is acting pretty resilient. LOL) Two out of those three were with parties of my friends, and one quest was just her and a level 4 fighter hireling. Below are some of my thoughts.

She misses way too much with her weapons. I am using at this time a heavy mace that helps with heals and a named long sword that has flaming burst and a +1 enhancement, Flametongue. I am currently trying to upgrade a corroded rapier. (Thank you very much to jydog100!!!!) I am hoping a better weapon will help. Does anyone know if there are any enhancements that can be taken to help?

Does anyone have any opinions on the first level spell Otto's Resistable Dance? I have found that I don't really get to use it much because I have to be pretty close to the target and by the time I get to a position to cast, the melee in the group have already killed them. It almost seems pointless unless there are large mobs. But even then, I like soundburst better because it stuns and does damage to multiple targets instead of just making one dance.

Other than the above mentioned issues, Elladrielle appears to be rather easy to play because I don't really do much except buff and cc and heal. (The times I try to jump in and fight hand to hand, she misses. I think I landed a total of 2 hits in Irestone Inlet. Thank goodness I had my very good friend playing with me because he is very understanding! )

I am not liking the play in general, maybe because I feel like I am not contributing enough to the success of the party. I am sure this will get better, though. I know it is hard to judge a toon until you get more experience with them, so I am going to stick with her at least until she gets her sixth level prestige enhancement.

I don't have a real solid opinion at this point on the class. I am still playing and watching.

Other than that, I don't have anything really to say. As always, feel free to contribute as long as it is constructive.

ALY

[Lyzernn]

She misses way too much with her weapons. I am using at this time a heavy mace that helps with heals and a named long sword that has flaming burst and a +1 enhancement, Flametongue. I am currently trying to upgrade a corroded rapier. (Thank you very much to jydog100!!!!) I am hoping a better weapon will help. Does anyone know if there are any enhancements that can be taken to help?

Of course she does, I told you this before, if you started with 10 STR based you'll never go anywhere with Melee, you have to focus ONLY on CC, buffs and heals. If you want to Melee, a STR base of 14 may be sufficient to hit some stuff.


Does anyone have any opinions on the first level spell Otto's Resistable Dance? I have found that I don't really get to use it much because I have to be pretty close to the target and by the time I get to a position to cast, the melee in the group have already killed them. It almost seems pointless unless there are large mobs. But even then, I like soundburst better because it stuns and does damage to multiple targets instead of just making one dance.

For low level spells Hypnotize and Charm Person are my favourite choices because Hypnotize lowers the monsters' will saves and ensnares them, while charm person is great to neutralize an enemy and make it grab aggro from all of the enemies around him.

I am not liking the play in general, maybe because I feel like I am not contributing enough to the success of the party. I am sure this will get better, though. I know it is hard to judge a toon until you get more experience with them, so I am going to stick with her at least until she gets her sixth level prestige enhancement.

I don't have a real solid opinion at this point on the class. I am still playing and watching.

Other than that, I don't have anything really to say. As always, feel free to contribute as long as it is constructive.

ALY

I'm going to suggest to you 2 things you can do to improve your gameplay (This will require you to buy a 32 pt build and start over).

1) Make your character more melee focused, with a Drow you can do:
14 STR - 10 Dex - 14 Con - 10 Int - 8 Wis - 20 Cha, the problem is that you still won't be able to dish out much damage in comparison to other races that could bump your STR to 16, your CHA is a bit higher but you'll still be feat starved. Honestly the best option I found for my Spellsinger was a Human, 16 STR 14 Con 18 CHA Spellsinger, he's quite capable in melee at low levels (Won't be so good end game but still won't miss much) and 2nd best CC available. All feats are focused on CC and Healing.

But you might like the 2nd option more
2) A Ranged Spellsinger. Now that U11 hit and ranged combat is once again viable, you may wanna give a shot to bows or xbows (see what I did there?), you need 2-3 feats to be really proficient with them, but you don't care about damage much so with even with 1 feat expended on ranged combat (Either Rapid Reload or Point Blank Shot. I recommend Rapid Reload and using a H. Xbow), you'll do so-so damage, from afar and can take the benefits from your race (Drow) while dumping STR. Feats will be a real mess here though. You'll have to choose whether you want better healing or better CC. Make sure you get Toughness, Heighten, Maximize and Rapid Reload for any of your options though if this is what you want.

Comments in red

[JasonJi72]

Elladrielle has run a total of three quests now. (I know that seems like I am wearing her out, but she is acting pretty resilient. LOL) Two out of those three were with parties of my friends, and one quest was just her and a level 4 fighter hireling. Below are some of my thoughts.

She misses way too much with her weapons. I am using at this time a heavy mace that helps with heals and a named long sword that has flaming burst and a +1 enhancement, Flametongue. I am currently trying to upgrade a corroded rapier. (Thank you very much to jydog100!!!!) I am hoping a better weapon will help. Does anyone know if there are any enhancements that can be taken to help?

Does anyone have any opinions on the first level spell Otto's Resistable Dance? I have found that I don't really get to use it much because I have to be pretty close to the target and by the time I get to a position to cast, the melee in the group have already killed them. It almost seems pointless unless there are large mobs. But even then, I like soundburst better because it stuns and does damage to multiple targets instead of just making one dance.

Other than the above mentioned issues, Elladrielle appears to be rather easy to play because I don't really do much except buff and cc and heal. (The times I try to jump in and fight hand to hand, she misses. I think I landed a total of 2 hits in Irestone Inlet. Thank goodness I had my very good friend playing with me because he is very understanding! )

I am not liking the play in general, maybe because I feel like I am not contributing enough to the success of the party. I am sure this will get better, though. I know it is hard to judge a toon until you get more experience with them, so I am going to stick with her at least until she gets her sixth level prestige enhancement.

I don't have a real solid opinion at this point on the class. I am still playing and watching.

Other than that, I don't have anything really to say. As always, feel free to contribute as long as it is constructive.

ALY

Having 14 strength would help with hitting, but you can get by without it. You said you were using two weapons. Are you using them at the same time? If you do not have a 2wf feat, you will not hit anything while dual wielding. Just checking.

I would suggest not even worrying about martial weapons. Use wands. Did you get one of the rechargeable wands when you made your character? Those are great for UMD classes. Get the acid wand from water works, and buy some cheap wands.

Soundburst, Charm, Hyptno, and sleep are great for mobs. Otto's dance is great for dangerous monsters who you really don't want swinging at your friends. Sleep is actually pretty decent now. It is the only spell that allows auto crit, and it scales up with your levels now. After they shortened the Hyptnotism duration, it became a viable alternative. Use Charm Person until you get Suggestion. Charm is great for cc.

Pure bard spellsingers can be truly epic. Your job is not to kill everything. Your job is to make difficult quests seem like a walk in the park.

[jydog100]

Comments in red

14-10-14-10-8-20 is not possible on a drow. with 16 build points in charisma and 10 in constitution you will only have 2 left to spend (only get 28 to start)

eliminate dual weilding, to hit penalties too high for you to overcome.

elyd edge at level 5 with cha mods now, S+B with a light mithril shield (easy to get) and you should be fine on your to-hit. (note: use a light shield if its mithril only, non mithril will give 5% spell failure chance)

you said melee was to be your least concern and that is something you are gonna have to live with. focus on cc/healing and work what melee in that you can. it will take some time to learn the characters abilities and how to mesh them with your playstyle. like you said, soundburst works for you, ottos does not.

experience seems to be all you need at this point. practice and see what works for you.

your a "support" character, which way you support is up to you. Its hard at low levels and at times you may feel like you're piking. Dont worry, most groups wont expect much more than songs and an heal evey now and then. as you get better at playing the toon and a few levels under your belt you'll know if its for you

[Lyzernn]

14-10-14-10-8-20 is not possible on a drow. with 16 build points in charisma and 10 in constitution you will only have 2 left to spend (only get 28 to start)

I actually thought about it but then was like: Oh nvm, drow are 32pt so it'll work. /facepalm

[beingchanged]

Comments in red

Okay, I did this to myself. Let me clear it up a little. I did roll this toon to be focused on cc, buffs and heals. She was not made with melee in mind at all. Therefore, strength really is my least concern. I did, however, want to try all facets of my new toon to determine what I would like and dislike about her build and the class as a whole. I am just getting my feet wet. I will be analyzing a lot and might make some changes and I might stick with some things that irritate me on purpose. It is all a just for fun, but sometimes what irritates in the beginning might be my strength in the end.

I do have the ability to roll 32 point builds, but I did choose and am sticking with my drow (which is only allowed 28 points), and I will be sticking with my stats. The feats and enhancements may change based on a whim. (Hahahaha. Not really. But they are subject to my discretion.

As far as the spells go, I do NOT like charm at all. I have run with toons who had that and wanted to kick them out of my party (even though it was my hubby ) However, Hypnotism is a very viable option that I had not considered. I obviously need to do more research into spells.

Ranged attacks was also something I had not considered. I will be reviewing my build to see if that might be something to think about.

As always, thank you for your input.

[beingchanged]

You said you were using two weapons. Are you using them at the same time? If you do not have a 2wf feat, you will not hit anything while dual wielding. Just checking.

DUH!!! This is one of those moments you want to bury your head in the sand and hope no one sees you. LOL At least I have the comfort of knowing that you don't see my real face as it turns a bright shade of red!
I totally knew that since I have a rogue with 2wf.

I would suggest not even worrying about martial weapons. Use wands. Did you get one of the rechargeable wands when you made your character? Those are great for UMD classes. Get the acid wand from water works, and buy some cheap wands.

I originally was planning on having dual weapons with enhancements for cc, heals and buffs. Since I really had no plans on wielding them to actually inflict damage, the 2wf seemed unnecessary. Now I have the embarrassing situation of explaining why I couldn't land a hit when I should have known that I wouldn't. :/

Your job is to make difficult quests seem like a walk in the park.

I like that! I may have to use that as a motto.
Thanks for your comments!

[beingchanged]

eliminate dual weilding, to hit penalties too high for you to overcome.

You are correct! I knew that to begin with, but obviously I didn't think about that when I was swinging away.

elyd edge at level 5 with cha mods now, S+B with a light mithril shield (easy to get) and you should be fine on your to-hit. (note: use a light shield if its mithril only, non mithril will give 5% spell failure chance)

If, in fact, I really am focusing on support then I will carry the weapons for any benefits it gives to those support roles instead of it's ability to inflict damage. I am still considering the dual weapons if there are different benefits on the two weapons. If there is a beneficial shield then I am all for it.

experience seems to be all you need at this point. practice and see what works for you.

your a "support" character, which way you support is up to you. Its hard at low levels and at times you may feel like you're piking. Don't worry, most groups wont expect much more than songs and an heal every now and then. as you get better at playing the toon and a few levels under your belt you'll know if its for you

I really appreciate all your support and encouragement. I am trying to experience everything I can with this toon's abilities even if it makes me look like a complete moron. I do realize what she was made for, so I am just putting all my thoughts out so everyone can have a good laugh.

[Lyzernn]

As far as the spells go, I do NOT like charm at all. I have run with toons who had that and wanted to kick them out of my party (even though it was my hubby ) However, Hypnotism is a very viable option that I had not considered. I obviously need to do more research into spells.

Lately I've ben partying with some people who don't like Charm and quite honestly this is the zerg factor acting up. Charm, imo, is probably the best and safest spell you can get at Lv. 1 and is still useful throughout the entire game, the reason I say this is because although Charm may make a team member have to choose another target to attack (Which shouldn't happen if you know how to do it properly), here's what you benefit from charming a mob:

• All the mobs around him will aggro him, including the casters, this means they won't be hitting you or your team mates which is a very safe way of defense;
• You gain one more damage dealer, although temporary and doesn't deal much damage;
• If you manage to Charm a spellcaster, you just won a great ally, all his spells and curses and etc will be caused on your enemies and you know how deadly those spells are.

All of this at the cost of losing 0.1 seconds to dismiss the charm and kill the mob which is unnecessary with Dominate, cause the enemy will follow you around.

[Satinavian]

If, in fact, I really am focusing on support then I will carry the weapons for any benefits it gives to those support roles instead of it's ability to inflict damage. I am still considering the dual weapons if there are different benefits on the two weapons. If there is a beneficial shield then I am all for it.

Elyd Edge is not for damage. It is for regenerating bard songs

Also as a rapier (you can use) with Cha-combat stats and a little devotion it's not the worst choice as a main weapon.

The mithral shield is a possibility to use your offhand slot without getting dual whieldiing penalties. As shields can be crafted with a lot of usefull caster-buffs like all-time favorite ardor/devotion, you could have a healing enhancing offhand shield. The best shields (excluding rare bound named ones) should be crafted shields. I could try do make you some shards, but my crafting levels are still mediocre maybe you know a better crafter.


Pity you don't want to mellee : drow make such good twf bards due to high possible Dex for low investment and racial enhancements for rapiers and shortswords. But CC is also a nice route.

[beingchanged]

Elyd Edge is not for damage. It is for regenerating bard songs

Yep. That is why I am working on crafting that weapon.

The mithral shield is a possibility to use your offhand slot without getting dual whieldiing penalties. As shields can be crafted with a lot of usefull caster-buffs like all-time favorite ardor/devotion, you could have a healing enhancing offhand shield.

I have seen some shields that would be helpful, but not often. Most of the items I have seen with ardor and devotion have been weapons, but I will continue to search.

Pity you don't want to mellee : drow make such good twf bards due to high possible Dex for low investment and racial enhancements for rapiers and shortswords. But CC is also a nice route.

I rolled my rogue for a static group as a drow assassin with a dex base and even took the feat or enhancement(don't remember which it was?) that uses dex instead of strength for damage. I am very familiar with that concept. I am just trying a bard for the first time and wanted to start this way. It doesn't mean I won't change my mind at level 7.

[Alleyna]

I have a capped 20 Human Bard Virtuoso who is CC specc’d. Below are my (random) thoughts for a CC Bard.

Spellsinger vs Virtuoso (for CC):
Spellsinger - +1 DC/spell pen song, SP regen song, better healing, more SP
Virtuoso - Enthrall, Capering Song, more songs, longer songs, song regen 1 per minute, room to customize feats/enhancements

SS do get +1 DC song. However, Enthrall gives -2 will save/attack to affected mobs, even after they “break.” Since enchant spells have will saves, this effectively gives +1DC over having just SS song. Does not work on orange name or song-immune mobs, though, where SS do get +1 DC with song (assuming not CC immune). If SS in the party, Virt’s can always get the +1 DC song, though You can sing this while invis without breaking invis.

Capering Song (aka Otto’s Nearly Irresistible Dance) has a longer duration than OID, no spell pen check, does not break invis when singing, with only a 5% chance to break. Also can sing on a mob from a great distance away and the mob can be party blocked (which would usually result in a “Blocked” error message otherwise).

Music of the Dead – I like it a lot. With so much low to mid-level content focused on undead (Delara’s, Necro I-III, Wiz King, Orchard, etc..), it is very useful. The undead mobs will only save on a 20. It is even still useful in epic quests like Wiz King and Black Loch. You can also sing this without breaking invis.

I think there are really three factors that would allow you to be an effective healer: Maximize, scrolls, and gear. My virt only has Maximize feat plus the first tier of the Incredible Healing enhancement (allows cure spells to crit) and I think the first 3 tiers of Wand and Scroll Mastery. And I have solo-healed a Shroud on her, as a Virt. Gear I have that really helped: Epic Elyd Edge (superior devotion 6), Gauntlets of Eternity (major healing lore), Amara’s Belt (superior devotion clickies), Epic Ornamented Dagger (maximize clickies), Archivist’s Necklace and Vile Blasphemy (regain SP), Heal Scrolls, Mass Cure Mod Scrolls, Torc and Concopp. Sustaining Song is weak for true healing in fights, but is very nice to top off party in between fights, and I guess it does help (a very very little ) during a fight. If you can get enough HP to withstand Harry’s attacks, stand next to the group and Torc + Concopp help regain some SP. I am aiming at getting her a Bauble and Eardweller to really fill out gear for healing ability. Wearing/using an efficient Maximize item will also reduce SP when casting mass cures, too. Spot heal with scrolls as needed.

Most Important Skills – Perform, UMD, and Concentration. I definitely recommend quicken since Otto’s Sphere of Dancing takes forever to cast otherwise and if you are hit while casting, you make a concentration check not to be interrupted. In Epics, it is hard to make that check. Concentration is still good, though, since you cannot quicken scroll casting and if you are hit while casting a scroll, a concentration check is made to not be interrupted. Other good skills for adventuring are balance and jump, possibly even hide and move silently. Haggle is good if you want to make a ton of plat selling junk loot.

Useful gear (for leveling and cap) – Elyd Edge or Stormsinger Cloak (both give song regen 1 per 5 min, do not stack with each other), Torc (also greater spell pen VI) and Concopp greensteel items, Bard’s Cloak or other Cha 6/7 and perform 15 items, greater spell focus item, sp regen items like Archivist Necklace, Bauble, Twisted Talisman, Spell-storing Ring, Vile Blasphemy, etc.., superior devotion items (Amara’s and Tokala’s Belts, Gauntlets of Eternity), Morah’s Belt for Jump clicky, maximize clickies, efficient metamagic items (like gloves of the glacier, etc..) to swap around while buffing/healing, etc..

Gear is very important for a bard. Don’t be afraid to swap around items and weapons during a quest to make use of important clickies and abilities depending on the situation. Also, scroll usage is also a very good thing to do, so try to at least take the first or second tier of Wand and Scroll Mastery.