To Sing or Not To Sing - That is MY Question

[Rydin_Dirtay]

I prefer 20 warchanter, more dps for everyone!

I have played a 16/2/2 and a pure20. I feel that the pure20 is more about "party" and the 16/2/2 is more about "me". So I suppose it is just a matter how you want to play yours OP.

[maddmatt70]

Your specialty? A bard's songs are its specialty. Warchanter boosts a bard's songs.
A non-melee bard in the current game is really rather purposeless. Bards cannot hit the required DC's to make spell CC an effective option beyond irresistable dance. Hence, a non-melee bard is relegated to healer, and while it's not impossible to play a healing bard effectively, the divine casters are much more suited to it. Moreover a melee bard can easily go spellsinger and heal just as effectively, missing nothing but a handful of spellpoints and 4 base points of cure mass over a pure bard.

My bard of choice is a 16/2/2 melee spellsinger.

The purpose of a pure warchanter is self defeating. The additional damage added from a splash more than makes up for the additional damage from the capped song boost.

Virtuoso is taken for one thing - song of capering. An instant single target paralysis with effectively no save and no spell penetration check.

A non melee bard is rather purposeless??? Bah just solo heal a quest without an FVS/cleric or use your mana on healing instead of the FVS or Cleric using theirs on healing spells. A cleric/fvs does more dps with their spells then a bard does with their weapons. If the FVS/Cleric use all their mana on offensive spells with a bard healing the group the party wins. You go ahead and swing your little tinker toys. Yes, I do have a melee bard, a melee/healing bard, and a healing/cc bard.

By the way if I am healing and I am not meleeing at the same time pure for +1 inspire courage is better. In a raid group with 7 or so melee pure is better. If you do not have the ability to heal and you die in challenging new raid pure with more spell points that being pure grants and the proper healing feat pure is better.

[stainer]

If I had to do it again I'd stick with a pure human warchanter as my first bard but thats me. Its not "better" so to speak but fits MY style. Thats the great thing about a bard. So many different ways to do it "right".

This is what I did and ended up with a character that I even I couldn't screw up.

[beingchanged]

Now i'm sure you are a woman

If you reread my original post, you might notice I mentioned my "husband". Yes, I am a woman!

[beingchanged]

Regardless of 99.9% of Warchanters multi-classing, you can be a Pure Warchanter, and you WILL be the best at what you do - Song buffing, your attack/damage boost will be the highest of any kind of Bard, pure or splashed. As a bonus, you also get to hit higher and be more melee focused. Bards aren't either a Melee, Ranged or Spellcasting class, you can be any of those since DPS is just one of the Bard's secondary jobs.

I may have to reconsider my build. I pretty obviously have no clue about bards in general. I even panicked mid quest when I was asked to play a song and had no idea where they hid those on my character sheet!

Because of my ignorance, I have never considered bards to be melee type characters. I thought a warchanter would gimp the toons capabilities for buffing and healing, which I considered to be their part of the teamwork.

I am, however, going to continue on in my journey as a spellsinger for the time being. I used drow for the cha boost and then maxed out cha. I put 2 points into strength and then the rest in con. Does this sound reasonable?

One last question, preferably for my non-bard party members, what spells and songs do you consider the most valuable for the bard in your party to have? I don't want to be the useless spellsinger that stares blankly at their screen when someone asks for that one tune I don't have :s

A big thank you to everyone who has contributed. Everyone's input has been extremely helpful!

ALY

[Lyzernn]

I may have to reconsider my build. I pretty obviously have no clue about bards in general. I even panicked mid quest when I was asked to play a song and had no idea where they hid those on my character sheet!

Sadly, the feat menu is a jumbled mess and I don't think it will ever be fixed since when I made a thread for a suggestion no one seemed to sign for it.

Because of my ignorance, I have never considered bards to be melee type characters. I thought a warchanter would gimp the toons capabilities for buffing and healing, which I considered to be their part of the teamwork.

Well, since Bards have no other way of doing damage besides Melee or Ranged (Which is currently a bad idea, maybe in U11 we'll see some ranged bards), because we have no good damage spells, we have to invest a bit on STR (Or Dex for ranged) to be able to deal some damage instead of just buffing and healing. Much like a battle cleric.

I am, however, going to continue on in my journey as a spellsinger for the time being. I used drow for the cha boost and then maxed out cha. I put 2 points into strength and then the rest in con. Does this sound reasonable?

Well, 10 STR base doesn't make you any good at melee. I, even at 16 STR, have trouble hitting sometimes (Mostly on higher level elites). My build is a 32pt build human spellsinger with 16 STR, 14 Con and 18 Cha. It's a pretty versatile build since you can CC effectively and still Melee, although a bit squishy. I've seen people say they have CC Bards with NO melee ability at all, I recall someone saying he was a CC Virtuoso with double scepters and dumped STR. Anyway, if you enjoy your current build without any melee, it's fine, but remember 2 things: People won't usually accept a Bard as a healer low-mid levels; and you won't be able to do any DPS, which will lower your contribution a bit, but hey, it's a game, play it how you want.

One last question, preferably for my non-bard party members, what spells and songs do you consider the most valuable for the bard in your party to have? I don't want to be the useless spellsinger that stares blankly at their screen when someone asks for that one tune I don't have :s

Inspire Courage is the most awesomest song you have for melees, great Attack/Damage boost.
At level 6 you'll get Spellsong Trance, which will give +1 DCs to spells and lowers their SP consumption by a bit.
Inspire Greatness is ok too, but as a Spellsinger, your song actions will be better put in the next song:
Spellsong Vigor, this is an amazing song that replenishes SP over time and helps any spellcaster in your party, if you see the Cleric getting low on SP, cast it on them. It even works on yourself! so you can have a much bigger SP pool than before.
After this I don't really know much, but Inspire Heroics gives +4 to saves so it's also a must.

[NovaNZ]

Hail Beingchanged.

Welcome to the world of 'surround sound - laying tunes down then going to town!'

I am working up a dwarf 'beefcake' (Bard 15/ Rogue 3/ Fighter 2).
Have previously run a Genghis Khan build.

Bards give u space to develop your play XP and also let u mould a character around your premorbid play style.

Hope u enjoy your bard experience.

[JPDefault]

Nobody mentioned two very important bard-related things:
1) Inspire Competence.
2) You should definitely sing on voice chat while playing bard's songs.

[Luxx0r]

I used drow for the cha boost and then maxed out cha. I put 2 points into strength and then the rest in con. Does this sound reasonable?

I levelled a SS pure bard, and IMO Drow it's not a great choice. Humans will only get a point less in CHA due to human adaptability, and having a free feat can even the DC for spells with Spell Focus Enchantment.

During my levelling I was able to pull a bit of DPS (thanks mostly to good/specialized weapons) till around the valley, from that moment on best to focus on CC/healing.

I strongly suggest to check this link of the Mississippi Queen build that you can use to inspire you. Also, the build creator LeslieWest_GuitarGod knows a ton about bards and he help me a lot answering some questions I got when I got at the same spot that you (levelling a bard without really knowing how):

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168293

[JasonJi72]

I have an AA 12 bard, 6 ranger, 2 rogue. I leveled him as a warchanter, but I had to switch to virtuoso to fit in imp precise shot.

A bad idea to use range? Probably, but it works ok for me. I am strength based and do ok damage when I melee, but nothing compared to what I do during manyshot.

I am in the 'I don't think virtuoso's suck as bad as people say they do' camp. The biggest advantage a virt has is not having to take a feat to get it. While I do miss my warchanter songs, my virtuoso songs are not bad either. The biggest difference is that I actively use my songs more offensively for cc. The healing song is kinda bleh, but it works well with a cleric's aura. Don't use it if you have a spellsinger in the group though.

[Psychogene]

Have fun whichever Bard path you choose, and I wouldn't be overly concerned with which path (multiclass or pure) to take because they are all viable and most importantly fun.

My bard is one of my mains, I originally started out as warchanter (15 bard/3 fighter/2 rogue) then tr'ed to a spellsinger (16 bard/2 fighter/2 rogue). After chasing some gear and what not, I eventually settled for (14 bard/6 rogue). Reason I choose this split is to be a jack of all trades but master of none. With countless hours grinding for gear, points in UMD, and specialisation in assassin 1/spellsinger 2 u got a bard that can do epic traps/scroll heal/provide minor party healing thro spells/spell songs for the casters/moderately buffed dps songs for the rest/haste + rage bot/epic fascination for minor cc and can do some nice dps as long as they don't have aggro.

Anyway, bards r luved so as long as u got a bard icon your all good to go!

[karl_k0ch]

One last question, preferably for my non-bard party members, what spells and songs do you consider the most valuable for the bard in your party to have? I don't want to be the useless spellsinger that stares blankly at their screen when someone asks for that one tune I don't have :s

Disclaimer: I play mainly melees, but there are also two bards amongst them, so I might be biased.

As long as the Bard keeps the following things running on the melees, he has the license to pike:
Haste, Inspire Courage, Rage.

Additional googies are: Greater Heroism, Blur; both usually just granted at the start/after shrining. For expected short, but tough fights Displacement is useful, too.


Inspire Heroics only for AC characters.
Inspire Competence for tough skill checks, i.e. Traps on Elite, or bluffing the stupid Ogre.

Honrable Mentions:
Invisibility is valuable to bypass some fights.
Expedious Retreat for faster Movement before level 7.
Soundburst. AoE CC for low levels. Yes, please.
Good Hope. Poor Man's Greater Heroism.
FoM; saves the healers a few SP.
Dimension Door. Useful to shorten quests which involve a "you have to walk back to the beginning".
Otto's Irresistable. Good CC, also works for non-casting specced Bards.

Re: Bard build options. My signature links a Bard primer. Have a look at it; there are some nice builds included.

[beingchanged]

Thank you to all that have given me well wishes and constructive criticism. I appreciate all of the support I have found on these forums.

After some consideration, I think what I am going to do is turn this thread into a sort of AAR. (Just in case, After Action Report). I am going to try to post my build a little later. Despite some concerns on your part as well as mine, I am choosing to stick with the build instead of deleting and rerolling to make it a little more interesting. After playing some, I will then post what happened and what I think. Feel free to post any comments, suggestions, constructive criticisms, etc. I will take note of each and every one. That doesn't mean I will change what I am doing, but I will consider it.

First, though, I think it important that you understand my play style. I am very conservative. I do not like to zerg. I like to take my time and learn the quest. I do like to play as a part of a team, not just in a group, with a strategy. I like to see everyone play their role, if that is to hack and slash everything in sight as a barbarian or to stand in the back and heal as a cleric or to sneak forward to catch the traps before it kills the fighter who is trying to get to the mobs. I understand this is a game and if we wipe, I laugh hysterically!!! I do understand that others differ in their play style, and I respect that. However, I may choose not to play with the zergers. It is not meant to offend anyone. It is just not enjoyable for me.

So, if you like, keep following this thread and we will see how Elladrielle fairs on Khyber.

[Oakianus]

It sounds like you've definitely got what it takes to make a good Bard - a desire for teamwork and working together is important, especially since a pure 20 Spellsinger is absolutely awful at melee. Just awful. My main capped toon is a 20 Spellsinger, and I absolutely love him, but he has problems soloing anything over a 13th level quest. Well, not really problems, because he can CC anything and kill it, but it takes so long. :P

With the right equipment, you can absolutely be an epic-worthy CC caster. I'm still on my first life and missing a few things that I'd like to have, but with ship buffs, I can hit 40 DCs on my holds and disco balls. Don't let anyone tell you that Bards can't CC. Not quite as well as the wizard, but we can also fall back into healing mode when necessary and we can keep the party buffed and doing more damage than otherwise, which is always a great feeling. Everyone wins and goes home happy in that scenario, really.

Make sure that you get as many of the Inspire Courage boosts as you can, and absolutely max out the damage portion at the very least. I've got everything but the highest tier of the attack boost, and wish I had bought it every time I look at it. :P As far as feats, if you want good CC, just about all of your feats have to be aimed toward it. I've got Toughness, Spell Focus: Enchant, Greater Spell Focus: Enchant, Spell Penetration, Extend Spell, Heighten Spell and Empower Healing Spell as my feats on my Spellsinger, as an example.

[jydog100]

First, though, I think it important that you understand my play style. I am very conservative. I do not like to zerg. I like to take my time and learn the quest. I do like to play as a part of a team, not just in a group, with a strategy. I like to see everyone play their role, if that is to hack and slash everything in sight as a barbarian or to stand in the back and heal as a cleric or to sneak forward to catch the traps before it kills the fighter who is trying to get to the mobs. I understand this is a game and if we wipe, I laugh hysterically!!! I do understand that others differ in their play style, and I respect that. However, I may choose not to play with the zergers. It is not meant to offend anyone. It is just not enjoyable for me.

So, if you like, keep following this thread and we will see how Elladrielle fairs on Khyber.

Good approach.

find out what works for you and build on it to make it better.

a well built, well played Spellsinger can be very valuable. I have found very little mine cant do and a whole bunch that I can and have run with a few that amaze me with what they can do

A bard can be as little as songs/haste but can be a whole lot more.

Have fun with it. Thats whats important.

[SirValentine]

Inspire Courage is the most awesomest song you have for melees, great Attack/Damage boost.
At level 6 you'll get Spellsong Trance, which will give +1 DCs to spells and lowers their SP consumption by a bit.
Inspire Greatness is ok too, but as a Spellsinger, your song actions will be better put in the next song:
Spellsong Vigor, this is an amazing song that replenishes SP over time and helps any spellcaster in your party, if you see the Cleric getting low on SP, cast it on them. It even works on yourself! so you can have a much bigger SP pool than before.

I agree these are all great. A couple further commments:

Inspire Courage: If all a bard ever did was sing this, most groups would still be happy to have them! The basic expectation, and your key to piking if you so desire. Always sing this; everything else you do above this is sheer awesome bonus to the group.

Spellsong Trance: I loved getting this on my caster. +1 DC MATTERS. And -10% SP costs is not "a bit". That's like having 200 extra SP if your base SP is around 2K. Give your casters (divine and arcane) this song.

Spellsong Vigor: AKA Free Infinite SP. Best. Song. Ever. I have to disagree with the above about when to sing it; do NOT sing this after you see your party member's blue bar getting low. Sing it to them NOW. (Well, right after initial buffing, say.) It gives back huge amounts of SP, but slowly, so start it early.

[beingchanged]

So here it is. I have made a few modifications from my original build that will require me to delete and reroll unfortunately. However, I am hoping it will be changes for the better. As usual, comments and suggestions are welcome and greatly appreciated. Please remember, I am new to bards and put this together rather quickly so try to be polite when you criticize!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Elladrielle 
Level 20 Neutral Good Drow Female
(20 Bard) 
Hit Points: 212
Spell Points: 1066 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 12
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             20                    28

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    23
Bluff                 9                    32
Concentration         6                    32
Diplomacy             9                    32
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                     9
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate            5                     9
Jump                  0                     0
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               9                    32
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                  0                     0
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      9                    36

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Otto's Resistable Dance
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Spell (1): Sonic Blast
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I


Level 4 (Bard)
Spell (2): Heroism
Spell (2): Soundburst
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (2): Hold Person
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II


Level 8 (Bard)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (4): Shout
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music IV


Level 16 (Bard)
Spell (1): Sleep
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (2): Rage
Spell (6): Heroes Feast
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (3): Deep Slumber
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV


Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (4): Hold Monster
Spell (6): Greater Shout
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III


Level 20 (Bard)
Spell (5): Shadow Walk
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III

[beingchanged]

I have rolled what I hope to be the new and improved Elladrielle. She is level 4, thanks to veteran status, and is using only the starter equipment at present. I hope to purchase some better equipment from the auction house and retrieve some from my bank as well. All of the financing will come from her older sisters. I did opt for the heavy mace that enhanced the lower level healing spells when choosing my weapon. Hopefully that will prove to be useful.

Please remember, I am trying to run her as a support toon. She is not built for, nor will she be used for hand to hand combat. Do not fret, though. She will not save our world alone. If I do not find a suitable party to help us on our questing adventures, I will employ very capable (but not necessarily useful or smart or.....well anyway) hirelings.

[JakLee7]

2) You should definitely sing on voice chat while playing bard's songs.

I can attest - you will quickly be banned from all endgame content unless you make sure & sing LOUDLY and OFTEN into the mic while your bard plays songs.... this is a requirement.

[Lyzernn]

<Build>

• Bluff is probably unnecessary since you won't be pulling, dealing sneak attack damage and won't need the -25% hate. Personally I'd put it in Jump or Tumble cause I like moving around.
• About the feats - I see what you're trying to make is a CC Bard, the fats as they are right now aren't very suitable for healing, if you want to heal effectively you'll need Maximize and Quicken, trade from Spell Pen and Empower Spell. Either way I'm not sure the Spell Pen feats will help you much since not every spell has that issue and not every mob has it either.
• If you're not taking Music of Dead or Constructs, you shouldn't put more than 1 point in Extra Song, sure it's good to have a couple more songs to play, but they cost you 8 AP for 3 extra songs.
• Same with Energy of the music, the first one actually helps, the second one is ok, the 3rd is a prereq for Spellsinger II but the 4th doesn't give you much.

Other than that I have no more comments, and even if you don't agree with this post it's still a viable build.