Idea for an actual PvP mode that actually makes sense

[Zachski]

Before you judge the thread, read through.

My idea is literally taking one team of players to pit them against another team of players. But not in character vs. character.

No, one team of players becomes "dungeon masters", are given a random dungeon, and must set it up and select their monster class and stuff. They have 5 minutes to do this while the other team waits in the entrance area and is given the chance to buff up and stuff.

DM team moves through the dungeon, setting up traps and areas of mooks. They're given a certain amount of resources to do this.

Then the "hero team" moves through the dungeon, fighting the monsters, but also having to deal with the red name monster players, who have picked their monster class (though one player picking a monster locks that monster out for other players, so they're not forced to pick just a bunch of beholders are something) and must fight them.

Dungeon scaling is in effect (so the larger the hero team, the more boost the mooks and monster players get, but the LESS heroes there are, the the more boost the heroes get) and such.

Obviously, this is just a rough concept, but what do you think? Somewhat inspired by Turbine's other MMO which has the "Monster Play" option for VIPs, only in this case, you actually set up the dungeon.

[R0cksteady]

This would take a LOT to implement.

But it would be so **** fun how could I not /sign?

[The_Brave2]

Basically a player tool to make dungeons. and make monsters in this dungeon have a team of players using them, while another fights though the dungeon.

This is not PVP... So your title is incorrect. Player Vs. Player not Player Vs. Monster played by Player

However, user tool to make dungeons? /Signed. Don't really care about being able to play monsters in that dungeon.

[Zachski]

Basically a player tool to make dungeons. and make monsters in this dungeon have a team of players using them, while another fights though the dungeon.

Except it's discarded after the adventure.

This is not PVP... So your title is incorrect. Player Vs. Player not Player Vs. Monster played by Player

Uh...

You do realize that the definition of "player" is the person sitting at the keyboard, right?

Therefore, Player vs. Monster played by Player would STILL be Player vs. Player

If you want Character vs. Character, there's always tavern brawls.

Monster Play in LOTRO is still defined as PvP, mainly because you specifically fight other players and not NPCs.

However, user tool to make dungeons? /Signed. Don't really care about being able to play monsters in that dungeon

I do.

[The_Brave2]

Except it's discarded after the adventure.

Seems like a lot of work.

Uh...

You do realize that the definition of "player" is the person sitting at the keyboard, right?

Therefore, Player vs. Monster played by Player would STILL be Player vs. Player

If you want Character vs. Character, there's always tavern brawls.

Monster Play in LOTRO is still defined as PvP, mainly because you specifically fight human characters and not NPCs.

Apparently my Definition of pvp differs from yours, or at least my idea of pvp does. Unless you are playing a character that you have created I do not qualify it as pvp, and quite frankly playing as a monster just seems boring with the limiting abilities and weak attributes.

an actual PvP mode that actually makes sense

Playing as monsters does not make sense. You play as a character that you level up, why should pvp that 'makes sense' involve not using that character?

However I do agree that some major overhaul would be needed for pvp to work in DDO... but this does not include playing a character that is not the toon you have leveled.

Player made dungeons with some sort of competitive aspect between 2 groups? Sign me up.

I do.

good for you I could never of figured that out from the fact that you made the thread.

[Grenada]

Before you judge the thread, read through.

I refuse to. This idea has to do with pvp, and therefore I must argue against whatever it is you are saying.

My idea is literally taking one team of players to pit them against another team of players. But not in character vs. character.

No, one team of players becomes "dungeon masters", are given a random dungeon, and must set it up and select their monster class and stuff. They have 5 minutes to do this while the other team waits in the entrance area and is given the chance to buff up and stuff.

DM team moves through the dungeon, setting up traps and areas of mooks. They're given a certain amount of resources to do this.

Then the "hero team" moves through the dungeon, fighting the monsters, but also having to deal with the red name monster players, who have picked their monster class (though one player picking a monster locks that monster out for other players, so they're not forced to pick just a bunch of beholders are something) and must fight them.

Dungeon scaling is in effect (so the larger the hero team, the more boost the mooks and monster players get, but the LESS heroes there are, the the more boost the heroes get) and such.

Obviously, this is just a rough concept, but what do you think? Somewhat inspired by Turbine's other MMO which has the "Monster Play" option for VIPs, only in this case, you actually set up the dungeon.

Turbine: this idea is too interesting. Plz implement and run it through the Nerf-Buff Cycle asap

[Uchuujin-San]

sounds like a great idea.. cross between DDO and left4dead... but i reckon it'd be a nightmare to implement and tweak so that the monster team has any hope at all against the godlike PC's.

[Zachski]

Seems like a lot of work.

That's beacuse it isn't meant for hour long trips, it's meant for short games. Small playing field.

This isn't a "dungeon maker", this is a "strategic pvp match", with the DM side having to do the strategizing.

Apparently my Definition of pvp differs from yours, or at least my idea of pvp does. Unless you are playing a character that you have created I do not qualify it as pvp, and quite frankly playing as a monster just seems boring with the limiting abilities and weak attributes.

Works for LOTRO, in the sense that you actually DO level up as a monster. The idea for this thing, however, is that dungeon scaling works in the monster's favor, so that if you're, say, facing a party of 6 level 20s, you would be buffed up, statistics and everything.

Playing as monsters does not make sense.

Actually, yes, it makes perfect sense if you are, essentially, playing as a party of DMs. Because that's what the DM does in a game. He plays as the monsters.

You play as a character that you level up, why should pvp that 'makes sense' involve not using that character?

Because the characters in this game are not set up for PvP against each other, they are set up to battle against monsters. Conversely, monsters are set up to battle characters. Ergo, rather than fight the system, work with it.

However I do agree that some major overhaul would be needed for pvp to work in DDO... but this does not include playing a character that is not the toon you have leveled.

Which is what the hero side gets to do. The monster side gets to invoke all sorts of strategy, monster selection. Basically, monsters are weak because they're stupid. Give them smarts, however...

Player made dungeons with some sort of competitive aspect between 2 groups? Sign me up.

Think of these dungeons as an arena, only with the heroes having to fight their way through traps and stuff to get to your battlefield where you can then fight them yourselves.

I'm not talking about playing as kobolds or anything, I'm talking about playing red names, bosses, that sort of thing.

[wax_on_wax_off]

How about a DDO port of DotA? That's always been my preferred PvP solution.

[MsEricka]

This is yet another thread about PvP that is not in the PvP section therefore I am able to state that PvP should be removed from the game.

[Zachski]

This is yet another thread about PvP that is not in the PvP section therefore I am able to state that PvP should be removed from the game.

And this is why I asked people to hear me out >_> It's pretty obvious you didn't read the suggestion at ALL.

This is a suggestion, it belongs in the suggestion forums.

Oh, one more thing: The monster side of play should only be available to VIP. Kinda like what they have with LOTRO. Of course, you can still participate, but if you're not VIP, you can't be anything but an adventurer.

[Uska]

Would be great except for 2 things

1. Would take a massive amount of dev time away from the rest of the game that could be better spent on something more would enjoy

2. I hate ddo pvp(this is for me if other people want to pvp more power to them but dont take dev time from what the majority woudl enjoy or see #1

[DawnofEntropy]

/signed! Best Making Dungeons is the best thing you could add.

[Requiro]

<snip>

Excellent idea! But require a lots of work for Devs. And they get no strait profit from this. So there is a little chance to see it.

[donfilibuster]

Sometimes people argue more than needed over context.
In MMO context PvP has usually been character vs character and usually paired with PK (player killing).
Player based dungeon deserve its own category separate from PvP-in-general.

Perhaps a good comparison would be d&d miniatures, which are kind of PvPish in the OP's definition.
But regardless of this one gotta point out that it is different to have a player based dungeon from actually playing the monsters.

Playing the monsters by itself is far from pointless, since monsters are fully customizable as of 3e D&D.
A monster can take class levels and there's plenty of existing rules to play monsters to use as base.

Another thing to note is that some time ago, there was a post somewhere about a dev mentioning that DDO had the potential capability for the player based dungeons, but naturally the tool for dungeon making is suited for devs and not players.
And the idea was revisited again before u5, as it was said that player dungeons were even considered as one of the alternatives for player housing, from which we ended up with the airships.

[IWZincedge]

This is a suggestion, it belongs in the suggestion forums.

Well, it is a PvP suggestion (you directly reference the Monsterplay option in LOTRO, which is decidedly a type of PvP). So, the PvP forum is the best place for it. If for nothing else, then for this:

This is yet another thread about PvP that is not in the PvP section therefore I am able to state that PvP should be removed from the game.

Now the thread is in the PvP section, so please everyonce cease the universal PvP bashing. No good ever comes of it, anyway. Thank you.

[Stormanne]

I've thought for a while that the Monster Play mechanic from LoTRo is the only sensible way to do PvP here. The idea has merit.

This is a /signed from me, as long as it doesn't take too much away from standard dev cycles.

[Zachski]

Well, it is a PvP suggestion (you directly reference the Monsterplay option in LOTRO, which is decidedly a type of PvP). So, the PvP forum is the best place for it. If for nothing else, then for this:



Now the thread is in the PvP section, so please everyonce cease the universal PvP bashing. No good ever comes of it, anyway. Thank you.

I don't like how arbitrary it is that the suggestions forum is for all suggestions... but PVP suggestions.

However, I guess it stops the PvP bashing, so I suppose it's a workable solution.

[Talias006]

Well, it is a PvP suggestion (you directly reference the Monsterplay option in LOTRO, which is decidedly a type of PvP). So, the PvP forum is the best place for it. If for nothing else, then for this:



Now the thread is in the PvP section, so please everyonce cease the universal PvP bashing. No good ever comes of it, anyway. Thank you.

But, but... PvP bashing is a kind of PvP, and the only kind I can get behind from a D&D standpoint.

[BadBuy]

A nice idea, but I would take quite a lot of work to implement. Reminded me of a great classic game from the good old days:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_Keeper