Which is King of the U11 TWF'ers?

[ichigo911]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ight=aurasurge


GOGOGOG Aurasurge

but in reality the 12 fighter 6 paladin 2 monk split is reccomended for 36 point builds and HELF Rogue Dilly

that way you dont get wat u say in your statistics starting with 16 str

[Talon_Oakenleaf]

20 fighter

-splashes confuse me, how do i take 2 monk IRL

Buy them dinner first?

[Cold_Stele]

So your biased opinion says when the real truth is dots do the most damage on bosses.

If I'm obviously biased (against what I'm not sure because I have two melee FvS and a bunch of melees - see sig) then please enlighten me with the 'truth' of how much DPS DP does. WF FvS is 350ish so it's 200 short of a top melee.

[LordPiglet]

Dot's matter most in raids. Because they're the only fights that last long enough (well epic end fights)

DoT's supplement your damage, and depending on how you're spec'd that's a fair amount of damage. My TR just dot's ranged targets and then melee's anything that survives the blade barrier. When stacked though, I know people getting crits over 1000 pts.

Same tactic I used first life, just more effective with my better gearing (torc and con-opp).

[Taimasan]

Monk

[Jendrak]

hell all kensais do when they run out of boosts. I THINK you have enough rages to cover the amount of time you have power-surges.

That's the X-factor . . . how long will these fights post-U11 be? In the current game a 10-boost Kensai's got almost everything covered.

Well, when they are out of rages completely (which will happen fairly quickly because of the shorter duration), they take a pretty big hit to DPS.

Having a non-TR build i can say from experience that the DPS drop after rages (and only rages) isnt as drastic as you would think. Since your loseing about 8 str your dropping 4dps per shot. Now while this can be huge for longer fights it really dosnt factor to badly for the shorter ones. So what does this mean????

Save your rages for the big fights. With 8mins of rage (4rages x 2min duration) this is more than enough to maintain your dps when it counts most. To facilitate this I have 12 boosts (power surge, haste, and dmg) on mine so that i can use different combinations to still do the job and still have plenty left for going balls out (rage + powersurge + haste boost) on bosses.

[CoasterHops]

Monk as above, half elf, 12 mnk,8 fighter u11 wraps, stunner, acid burst on second ring, rog dili, well at least for single mob targets anyways.

[Alkindus]

For twf it is clearly 20 fighter half elf.

Blitz used to hold its own against a fighter until now.
The nerf to the barb PL hit blitz hard, very hard.
The 4 str/con loss is definitely worth mentioning, but the buff to rage duration is what hurts them the most.
In order to have enough rages to last you through most content, people will have to pick up extend rage II probablly on arguably the most Ap-starved split.
Couple that with the extra aps it will cost to maximize dps on a half elf (HV IV and rogue Dil) and I see no way to pick up all of the enhancements that add to your dps.
If someone feels I am wrong, please do a breakdown of the enhancements a blitz half-elf would need and post it.

A couple of other things for discussion:
-With the incoming increase to raid boss fortification, a blitz is hurt less. I say that because a blitz, unlike a fighter,paladin, or barbarian has no inherent increase to critical threat or range ( with the exclusion of the +4 additional seeker). So, the increase to fort twists things slightly in favor to blitz. (but only slightly because a small portion of a blitz dps is due to 1d6 +3 sneak damage).
- As better items/buffs come into the game, a fighter will gradually pull ahead of a blitz build. I say that because as I mentioned above, a fighter recieves a bonus to critical threat range, as well as effectively a 5% bonus to double strike(10% mainhand proc). A blitz recieves nothing that would influence base damage. So, with the introduction of Deadly Weapons and the slightly better alchemical khopeshes from the new raids, a fighter gains a larger benefit.

They both are very solid builds I will say. But, Zeya (my blitz) will definitely become a fighter if the changes stay as they are.
Edit: Didn't include the other builds in my post because they don't come close to the top.

[grodon9999]

Not according to the DPS calcs so take that with a grain of salt. Helf monster/blitz FTW in U11.

Quoting myself, ran the numbers again in AO's calc (standard disclaimers . . .)

It's all too close to matter.

Pure fighter: 625.86 459.55

Blitz: 617.28 469.88

Monster: 628.71 472.19

This is with Lightning II khopeshes, 3 piece abishai (Charged Gauntlets instead of Claw), Ravager & Shintao, Seeker 6. Up the seeker to 12 and change Abishai to claw and the ratios stay about the same.

Whatever flavor of helf you want will be fine, play what you think will be the most fun.

[Thrudh]

Quoting myself, ran the numbers again in AO's calc (standard disclaimers . . .)

It's all too close to matter.

Pure fighter: 625.86 459.55

Blitz: 617.28 469.88

Monster: 628.71 472.19

This is with Lightning II khopeshes, 3 piece abishai (Charged Gauntlets instead of Claw), Ravager & Shintao, Seeker 6. Up the seeker to 12 and change Abishai to claw and the ratios stay about the same.

Whatever flavor of helf you want will be fine, play what you think will be the most fun.

Can I ask a big favor? What are the numbers for a halfling monster with no Damage Boost, and no half-elf rogue dilly (But with 3 ranks of Guile - so +6 sneak damage)?

[grodon9999]

Can I ask a big favor? What are the numbers for a halfling monster with no Damage Boost, and no half-elf rogue dilly (But with 3 ranks of Guile - so +6 sneak damage)?

Assuming the same gear:

578.41 435.15

[Cold_Stele]

@ Grodon +1 thanks for the updated numbers.

Can you run 6 Pally version there too? As it says in OP - 32pt would start 16Str not 18, Divine Might 1, max 4 Exalted Smites, 5d6 Divine Sacrifice.

[grodon9999]

@ Grodon +1 thanks for the updated numbers.

Can you run 6 Pally version there too? As it says in OP - 32pt would start 16Str not 18, Divine Might 1, max 4 Exalted Smites, 5d6 Divine Sacrifice.

EDIT: Figured it out. 595.48 447.57

[Letrii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuigcXvcy1A

"Don't go ninj'n nobody don't need ninj'n"

[Nick_RC]

Depends on the content and assuming we are talking melee dps. There will be two distinct 'categories' of dpsers in my mind judging from llama.

1. Easy stuff. Helf dual bursters will rule the roost in easy stuff. If tod elite and the 2 new epic raids go live as they stand now then those same helf bursters will be weak.
2. Hard Stuff. Its about sustained dps right at the very hardest level from what i can guage. Im sure after all the people who cry because they cant run elite anymore when they should be sticking too normal winge on the forums the devs will tone it down a little. I hope they dont - at this point on llama there is a very nice jump from lower difficulties.

My picks will be in no particular order

1. 18 barb/2 ftr (essentially double boosts is nice for very long fights)
2. 20 barb for (even greater sustained dmg potential than the 18/2 altho less for the duration of HB1)
3. Monks pure or 12monk/8 ftr
4. cerain ranger mixes. (6 splash with eo and constructs is about ideal as that second FE is now very obvious)


Dual helf bursters will make easy content easier but when the going gets tough(namely those 3 raids on highest difficulties) I will take one of the 4 above. Horc. Not warforged. Honestly on a lightly specced for healing fvs I have no problem keeping a raid group of fleshies up but WF and especially wf with no amp are just a pain. Very inefficient. . Curses are non issue jsut need to have half a brain and chug a pot when you get hit.


Regarding FVS DPS.

In the new raids and tod elite you will not have the sp to maintain DP on the live servers. Mana pot consumption will be rough especially in MA even without dping. The AC is somewhat high on the epic raids - if you are 2wf(or non esos 2 handers) you better get some nice too hit gear else ur mediocre damage will be next to nonexistant.

N

Edit: Oh and glass cannon tanks should jsut gtfo of raid groups now. They will be useless next mod with the death penalty count. Build for saves(reflex), hp and sustained dps if you want to compete at the highest levels. I couldnt care less about what calcualtions say. If you arnt fat you arnt fighting at the highest levels next mod. Rangers and rogs dont cry ur evasion will help some.

[DragonTroy]

i would say the human 20 rogue would be very nice

haste boost IV + damage boost IV +17d6+20 sneak attack damage + rogue past life = godmode

and you have UMD, so can scroll heal yourself very effectively, especially with the new scroll enhancements

oh, to stop what i would expect to be the argument to this, absolutely no raid bosses have 100% fortification, and most are expected to not have more than 50%

[Nick_RC]

i would say the human 20 rogue would be very nice

haste boost IV + damage boost IV +17d6+20 sneak attack damage + rogue past life = godmode

and you have UMD, so can scroll heal yourself very effectively, especially with the new scroll enhancements

oh, to stop what i would expect to be the argument to this, absolutely no raid bosses have 100% fortification, and most are expected to not have more than 50%

Yup absolutely sorry forgot to put that above. Melees that can take care of themselves will be a boon in any run. Wrack construct has no save on llama release notes now so bring the rogs on I say.

N

[grodon9999]

i would say the human 20 rogue would be very nice

haste boost IV + damage boost IV +17d6+20 sneak attack damage + rogue past life = godmode

and you have UMD, so can scroll heal yourself very effectively, especially with the new scroll enhancements

oh, to stop what i would expect to be the argument to this, absolutely no raid bosses have 100% fortification, and most are expected to not have more than 50%

Rogues are their own separate animal, the OP was asking specifically about two different 12/6/2 splits.

And I agree with Nick, the best stuff for LONG fights is going to be Horc barbs. Anything Boost-based is gonna be gasping for air when the boosts run out. But he was asking specifically about TWFers.

[grodon9999]

. . . Not warforged. Honestly on a lightly specced for healing fvs I have no problem keeping a raid group of fleshies up but WF and especially wf with no amp are just a pain. Very inefficient. . Curses are non issue jsut need to have half a brain and chug a pot when you get hit.
. . .

Who are you and what have you done with Nick?

[Nick_RC]

Who are you and what have you done with Nick?

I started playing a healer again. Cant fit empower heal in my book and dont have mass heal on my build.... makes for me personally a rough task healing wf sadly. Better specced healers will have an easier time of it.