Elves need some love.

[elricken]

+2 to hit and damage with scimis/longswords just isn't cutting it.

They don't need to be the optimal melee race, but a decent buff is warranted I feel.

I'm sure this has been hashed out in other threads, just putting it out there again.

(Just for you Riyana, even tho it won't do a bit of good)

[Musouka]

Immune to Sleep.

Rapier/Longsword and Bow proficiencies without having to be a class that gets them.

+2 Listen/Search/Spot

+2 Save vs. Enchantments

Enhancement wise:

They get Spell Penetration and SP for wizards.

Arcane Fluidity, which lessens the arcane spell failure from armor.

They have a Racial Prestige.

They even get a Bonus to enchantment resistance.

[Brennie]

They have the unique advantage of being the only race with a racial prestige. Coupled with Elven dex and Elven bow enhancements, they seem particularly adept at that prestige too.

However, ranged is still universally hailed as subpar, so... that's not really all that much of a bonus.

Especially considering how IMPORTANT con is, and how minimally important dex is to most builds, Elves are VERY lackluster in a lot of ways. Heck, even my Arcane Archer is thinking his next *ARCHER* life might be Helf instead :/

I'm all for giving elves a boost. But not for giving elves any more love. I think that's how Half-Elves got introduced o_O

[noinfo]

Immune to Sleep.

Rapier/Longsword and Bow proficiencies without having to be a class that gets them.

+2 Listen/Search/Spot

+2 Save vs. Enchantments

Enhancement wise:

They get Spell Penetration and SP for wizards.

Arcane Fluidity, which lessens the arcane spell failure from armor.

They have a Racial Prestige.

They even get a Bonus to enchantment resistance.

I will ingore the first set as I don't think we will have anyone suggest that they contribute in power in any significant way.

Enhancement wise:

They get Spell Penetration and SP for wizards. -> Far better than in the past (SPen wise) Spell point bonus is largely irrelevant given the large sp pools and bonus items at latter level.

Arcane Fluidity, which lessens the arcane spell failure from armor. -> How many people actually use this?

They have a Racial Prestige. -> Considering the lack of power of ranged in PvE and the fact it locks you out of one of the only classes PRE it would substantially benefit not to mention it still requires pre reqs this is most definitely not a bonus.

Take a look at racial enhancements from HORC, HELF, WF and even Dwarf/Halfings range are far superior.

[Seventh]

It's certainly been brought up before, but it bears repeating- there's a few races that could use some love, but elves definitely need it the most, even after the spell pen line they got (which is nice).

Going to throw a few ideas out there:

-There's supposed to be improvements to ranged weapon combat coming soon. Since elves are supposed to be good with bows and whatnot, this ranged pass would be a good time to give elves some new racial bonuses and/or enhancements for ranged combat. Lot of options here- they could get Bow Strength as a racial ability, a line of enhancements that improve ranged attack speed some, greater benefits from the Improved Precise Shot feat, all sorts of things.

-Elves are supposed to be good Wizards- the Spell Pen/SP line helped with that a good bit- but they're also supposed to be good Gishes, which is something that doesn't really come up in DDO. Something that helps with that could be interesting. The Practiced Spellcaster feat was ruled out as an option in DDO a long time ago due to trouble with balance, but a lesser version of that could make for a good elven enhancement line. It could let an elven multiclassed melee/caster toon pick up two caster levels at a relatively steep AP cost, giving elves a nice little niche
as the best racial option for such toons.

-No one ever takes the Dragonmark feats because they eat up three feat slots and, since they basically amount to a bunch of high-caster level clickies, they can't really compare to feats which actually improve DPS/HP/DC's/whatever. Improving these feats would be a good way to give a boost to the races the marks belong to.
They way I see it, the devs could go about this two ways. The could condense the Dragonmark down to a single feat, with the various clickies becoming available as the character levels (So, "Least" abilities at level 1, "Lesser" at 6, and "Greater" at 9, or whatever). This would make it easier for feat-starved builds to take the marks. Could require changing the marks a bit if getting all three abilities for one feat seems like to much, but it shouldn't be too bad.
The other way would be keeping the marks as three feats but improving each feat so that they're individually worth taking, probably by making it so that each feat can substitute for another feat you'd normally take if the toon wasn't an elf or what have you. For example, if each tier of the Mark of Shadow granted some Sneak Attack damage (say, 2d6 for the first tier and 1d6 for the other two tiers), elf DPS toons could swap out Power Attack for a mark feat, gaining the benefit of the clicky and a small bump in damage and to-hit when SA is available. Builds with feats to spare, like fighters, could load up on all three (lol elf fighter).

/walloftext

[licho]

SOme more elaborate topics:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=335479
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=333276
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=313722

Generally more smart players figured out that Elves are inferior, and the only advantage is cool outlook.
Since even if they have some theoretical advantage its not actually useful, or can be achieved in other ways.

Some most popular thoughs:
1. The problem of balancing melee races is that HOrcs are so much above everything else. So first HOrcs should be cut down, so balancing could be set on some resonable level.
2. The weapon enchatments lines for both elves, drows, and dwarves need to be discount, since spending 12 AP for just +2/+2 is little overpriced. The third tier should be added, as well as seeker like enchantment.
3. Also Elves who fallow Valenar path should be allowed to use scimies as centered weapon as long as they have Whirwing Steel feat.
4. There should be added Xbow line for Drows.
5. The warhammer should be consider as dwarven racial weapon.
6. The Drows should be allowed to raise any combinacion of 2 points of they racial stats int/cha/dex.
7. Elves should receive addicional casting boost like either: +1 DC to Enchantment, one more tier of manipulacion of elements.
8. Racial speed increase for elves.
10. Racial haste boost for elves.
11. Racial fluidity could work for shields.

Just things on top of my head.
However, free races do not pay for themselves.
So what can be done is to go HE/HO, buy some nice helmet and pretend you are dwarf/elf.

Or you can repeat as old tape, that "there is no bad races only bad players".

[elricken]

Immune to Sleep.

Rapier/Longsword and Bow proficiencies without having to be a class that gets them.

+2 Listen/Search/Spot

+2 Save vs. Enchantments

Enhancement wise:

They get Spell Penetration and SP for wizards.

Arcane Fluidity, which lessens the arcane spell failure from armor.

They have a Racial Prestige.

They even get a Bonus to enchantment resistance.

Thanks for enlightening everyone on the all the bonuses that elves get, fact is.. that unless you are a palemaster elves are a pretty poor choice for nearly every class. I'm not saying they need to the teh UBAH but they are definitely lacking when in comparison to basically every other race. I'm sure as hell not saying that good players can't make quality elven toons, I have a guildie and a very good friend that plays elves exclusively. He runs the absolute best ranger and cleric I've ever grouped with, that doesn't however mean elves have any worthwhile benefit (again compared to other races)... so yea...

[Zachski]

Immune to Sleep.

Worthless and half elves get that as well.

Rapier/Longsword and Bow proficiencies without having to be a class that gets them.

Worthless

+2 Listen/Search/Spot

Useful for the first few levels of the game, otherwise worthless

+2 Save vs. Enchantments

Somewhat useful, except all of the important enchantment spells you have to worry about can be fixed with gear.

They get Spell Penetration and SP for wizards.

Spell Penetration is useful. Otherwise, worthless.

Arcane Fluidity, which lessens the arcane spell failure from armor.

Only ever useful for flavor builds, so basically worthless.

They have a Racial Prestige.

So does Half Elf.

They even get a Bonus to enchantment resistance.

Didn't you mention this already?

[Requiro]

That will be cool

Race improvements:

Racial Proficiency: on level 1 you must choice from 2 feats:

• Aerenal Proficiency (Longsword and Rapier)
• Valenar Proficiency (Falchion and Scimitar)

Elven Fluidity: On level 1 you get:

• Inherent –5% ASF reduction (for free)
• Enhancements can improve that ability.

Elven Meditation: Elfs meditate instead of sleep/rest. That why you spend only half normal time when resting.

Enhancements improvements:

Racial Weapon Enhancements (Aerenal, Valenar and Ranged)

• 3 Tiers
• All cost 2 AP (2/2/2)

Elven Arcanum:

• 20/25/30/35 (max. 110) more SP instead 20/20/20/20 (max. 80)

New Enhancements:

Elven poetry: (require proper Bard Level similar to Elven Arcanum)

• Cost: 1/2/3/4 AP
• Tier 1: +1 Bard song, +10 second to beneficial songs
• Tier 2: +1 Bard song, +20 second to beneficial songs
• Tier 3: +1 Bard song, +30 second to beneficial songs, +1 DC to all songs
• Tier 4: +1 Bard song, +40 second to beneficial songs, +1 DC to all songs

[Yvonnel-1]

none of u has yet remarked that with lady-elfes u can create the best looking characters at all - and everybody knows:

its all about the style!

[Talias006]

-No one ever takes the Dragonmark feats because they eat up three feat slots and, since they basically amount to a bunch of high-caster level clickies, they can't really compare to feats which actually improve DPS/HP/DC's/whatever. Improving these feats would be a good way to give a boost to the races the marks belong to.
They way I see it, the devs could go about this two ways. The could condense the Dragonmark down to a single feat, with the various clickies becoming available as the character levels (So, "Least" abilities at level 1, "Lesser" at 6, and "Greater" at 9, or whatever). This would make it easier for feat-starved builds to take the marks. Could require changing the marks a bit if getting all three abilities for one feat seems like to much, but it shouldn't be too bad.
The other way would be keeping the marks as three feats but improving each feat so that they're individually worth taking, probably by making it so that each feat can substitute for another feat you'd normally take if the toon wasn't an elf or what have you. For example, if each tier of the Mark of Shadow granted some Sneak Attack damage (say, 2d6 for the first tier and 1d6 for the other two tiers), elf DPS toons could swap out Power Attack for a mark feat, gaining the benefit of the clicky and a small bump in damage and to-hit when SA is available. Builds with feats to spare, like fighters, could load up on all three (lol elf fighter).

/walloftext

The condensed Dragonmark thing could work another way as well, in my thinking.

Turn it into 1 Feat; then, like some of the other feat based enhancements, add a separate line or two based on this feat.
One line to further the intensity of the 'mark and another to buff up the 'mark with extra uses per rest.

Instead of paying 4, 2, 2 like most PrE's it could be done as 1, 2, 4.
Giving the least effect at 1 ap, and granting the lesser at 2 ap and greater at 4 ap.

These enhancements could be spaced out to levels that wouldn't be prestige restricted levels.
Say level 4 and 10?

[Emizand]

none of u has yet remarked that with lady-elfes u can create the best looking characters at all - and everybody knows:

its all about the style!

I will see your elf and raise you my drow.

*mumbles about pale insipid looking creatures*

;-)

[Aesop]

[B][COLOR="Red"]

I'm all for giving elves a boost. But not for giving elves any more love. I think that's how Half-Elves got introduced o_O

cute

Aesop

[Aesop]

Posted these ideas in another thread about "racial love" http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ighlight=aesop

thought that a few updates to current Enhancements for a few races would be appropriate and at least interesting




Elf Ideas


Aerenal Weapon Mastery

1. lvl 4. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers

2. lvl 8. 2AP. +1 To Hit with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers

3. lvl 12. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers

4. lvl 16. 2AP. +1 To Hit with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers

5. lvl 20. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers

total +2 To Hit +3 Damage with Bows, Longswords and Rapiers


Valenar Weapon Mastery


1. lvl 4. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows, Scimitars and Falchions

2. lvl 8. 2AP. +1 To Hit with Bows, Scimitars and Falchions

3. lvl 12. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows, Scimitars and Falchions

4. lvl 16. 2AP. +1 To Hit with Bows, Scimitars and Falchions

5. lvl 20. 2AP. +1 Damage with Bows, Scimitars and Falchions

total +2 To Hit +3 Damage with Bows, Scimitars and Falchions


Valenar Dervish
Requires Weapon Finesse Feat and Valenar Weapon Mastery 1

1. lvl 6. 4AP. Scimitar counts as a Finesse Weapon


Aerenal Ascetic
Requires Whirling Steel Strike and Aerenal Weapon Mastery 1

1. lvl 4. 2AP. +1 Ki per Critical with Longswords while Centered

2. lvl 8. 2AP. +1 Damage with Longswords while Centered

3. lvl 12. 2AP. +1 Ki per Critical with Longswords while Centered

4. lvl 16. 2AP. +1 Damage with Longswords while Centered

5. lvl 20. 2AP. +1 Ki per Critical with Longswords while Centered


Elven Finesse

1. lvl 8. AP 2. Prerequisite: Weapon Finesse Feat, Elven Dexterity 1. Benefit: +2% Double Strike Chance with Finesse or Light weapons.

2. lvl 16. AP 4. Prerequisite: Elven Finesse 1, Elven Dexterity 2. Benefit: +2% Double Strike Chance with Finesse or Light weapons. (total +4%)


Valenar Great Weapon Mastery
note: this only applies to the Falchion
Requires: Valenar Weapon Mastery 1

1. lvl 1. 2AP. Weapon effects activate 2.5% more often

2. lvl 4. 2AP. Glancing Blows do 5% More damage

3. lvl 7. 2AP. Weapon effects activate 2.5% more often

4. lvl 10. 2AP. Glancing Blows do 5% More damage

5. lvl 13. 2AP. Weapon effects activate 2.5% more often

6. lvl 16. 2AP. Glancing Blows do 5% More damage

7. lvl 19. 2AP. Weapon effects activate 2.5% more often

total of 15% more Glancing Blow Damage and 10% more often that Weapon Effects activate.


Elven Deadeye

1. lvl 6. 2AP. Improve Point Blank Shot range by 5m and +1 stacking Seeker with Bows

2. lvl 12. 2AP. Improve Point Blank Shot range by 5m and +1 stacking Seeker with Bows

3. lvl 18. 2AP. Improve Point Blank Shot range by 5m and +1 stacking Seeker with Bows

total +15m to Point Blank Shot range and +3 stacking Seeker Bonus


Elven Arcanum

1. Wizard 1. 1AP. +20SP

2. Wizard 4. 1AP. +1 Spell Penetration

3. Wizard 7. 1AP. +20SP

4. Wizard 10. +1 Arcane Spell DC

5. Wizard 13. 1AP. +20SP

6. Wizard 16. 1AP. +1 Spell Penetration

7. Wizard 19. 1AP. +20SP

total +80SP, +2 Spell Penetration, +1 Arcane Spell DC


Elven Arcane Grace

1. lvl 5. 1AP. -5% Arcane Spell Failure

2. lvl 10. 1AP. -5% Arcane Spell Failure

3. lvl 15. 1AP. -5% Arcane Spell Failure

4. lvl 20. 1AP. -5% Arcane Spell Failure

Aesop

[grodon9999]

So much is needed, let's start with them being able to use Scimitars as centered weapons like they are able to in Eberon PnP.

[Alabore]

I'm all for giving elves a boost. But not for giving elves any more love. I think that's how Half-Elves got introduced o_O

...

-No one ever takes the Dragonmark feats because they eat up three feat slots and, since they basically amount to a bunch of high-caster level clickies, they can't really compare to feats which actually improve DPS/HP/DC's/whatever.

^^^
Suggested before.
Suggest it myself.
Liking the idea: streamline Dragonmark feats and trim them down to one - which grows with char level.

Loving the sneak dmg idea; could be on par with Helf Dilettante.
Making all racial Dragonmarks also get some Dilettante properties would be interesting.

Personally, I'd rework the Displacement Mark, so it stacks with other spells/items.
Would work along the lines of making elves masters of finesse fighting.
Which also means being capable of weathering dmg through avoidance.

...

I'm liking the idea of a making Scimitar a proficient weapon too.
Maybe for Valenar line only.
And making it centered.

It's nice, it's only x2 crit mult, and I love seeing crit effects proc'ing often enough.

[k1ngp1n]

I have a guildie and a very good friend that plays elves exclusively. He runs the absolute best ranger and cleric I've ever grouped with

*Sniffles*

I love you too, man.... bro love!

[krackythehoodedone]

Ok here comes some love

Stick between two slices of bread

And call a Veggie Burger

Lurrrvvvveleee

[Chai]

Its not that elves are underpowered - its that the two halfblood races, and warforged, are overpowered, which is utter chuggery. Of course I understand the reasoning - those are the "pay to stay in the game" races.

I would like to see their caster racials boosted to make elves the best casters in the game both DC wise and spell pen wise.

I understand that as a melee they are somewhat underpowered, but theres no reason why elven casters should be inferior to anyone else. Other races can tap into the weave. Elves are one with the weave and this is where I feel their true racial power should lie.

[Musouka]

Its not that elves are underpowered - its that the two halfblood races, and warforged, are overpowered

That simply sums it up. It's also not like your elf is a gimp, it can still hold its own in endgame, it's just not the VERY TOP tier for DPS.