12 Fighter 8 Paladin Human Solo Hater

[Messsenger]

Hey folks; I'm brand new to DDO but no stranger to MMO's or D&D. My goal here was to build a character that can solo well, and possibly tank some elite dungeons for endgame. I am aware that this build will not be a MT for raids of anything super intense. I factored in a +2 uber tome for lvl 7 but have learned that it wasted upon reincarnation (aside from easier leveling) so I may wait and use a stat level up for int to get CE. I have only unlocked the 32 point build and Vet. status so keep that in mind when leaving feedback.

Another issue I'd like to address is the "Evasion" tank. All of the forums have splashes of Rogue or Monk to get evasion for tanking . . . even recent posts. This is no longer effective correct? I thought for evasion to work AT ALL one needed to be wearing light or no armor. I'm not sure what equipment is available for endgame so I'm wondering if there is something out there that would justify wearing something other than plate for tanking so Evasion would work.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Headrush the Chosen
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(12 Fighter \ 8 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 366
Spell Points: 97 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 16
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            12                    14
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom               10                    12
Charisma             15                    21

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Greatsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

I have been tossing around a few ideas; however, since I have only been playing a few weeks I'm not sure how off track I am. I was thinking >Quickdraw< to make it easier to switch between a 2hander and S&B to gather aggro and turtle up once I have it and Divine Righteousness is active. I have also noticed that one with Quickdraw resumes attacking quicker (at least I think so) after changing stances or using enhancement boosts.

A few other questions are:

One needs to spend a Pally AC boost to enter DoS Defensive Stance, but then it lasts until deactivated or does it have a duration? Does entering the stance start the CD timer for other enhancement boosts or could I jump into defender and pop an attack boost or Power Surge?

The same goes for Kensei Power Surge; I know it has a one minute duration, but does it share a CD timer with the other enhancement boosts? And, can it be used from DoS Defensive Stance?

I was curious if I should abandon focusing on a 2hander (Kensei) and go with Khopesh instead. Change a few feats around to accomodate:

drop: Quickdraw
Toughness (still leaves 2)
Pick-up: Exotic Prof. Khopesh
Imp. Shield Bash ??

Will I have a high enough DPS without a 2hander to hold aggro without a ton of Intimidate gear and without relying solely on Divine Righteousness?

What level would anyone recommend for Reincarnation? I'm not sure if I'll even want to change any classes (depending on insight from feedback to this post) but I'll want to increase in stats for sure . . From 32 to 34 right?

If anyone wants to get real froggy and post a some general numbers about where a quality Endgame tank should be as far as: AC - DR - Saves - Intimidate - HP . . . . . and I'm not asking for the best tank known to man who's ground out every idea piece of gear over the last 5 years
Ideas? Comments?? Feedaback please?!?!

[Messsenger]

Actually if I were to focus on the sword and board instead of THW in this build I would possibly go with Bastard Sword instead of Khopesh for splash damage. Does anyone know if Kensei THW bonuses for splash would effect a Bastard Sword or Dwarven Axe being used with a shield?

[unbongwah]

I'll note that with the forthcoming improvements to SD & DoS in U11 (e.g., lower movement penalty, bigger STR & CON bonus from stance), that's a fairly strong motivation to stay pure on a ftr or pally tank - more so than there is already, I mean. That said, I still like the pally 6 / ftr 12 combo.

[Messsenger]

I don't understand why everyone stops at pally 6 tho? I haven't played a monk since my account is barely premium but taking a paladin to at least 7 grants the Auras another +1 to AC and +1 to all saves; among other things. The only benefit I have found in not going to Paladin 8 might be a 1 level splash of Wizard for the extra Spell Points and the bonus caster feat; but I'd think the Bull's Strength and Eagle's Splendor would be too missed, not to mention the extra Lay on Hands.
Again, all of this is coming from someone new to the game who's largest group experience was 3 including me

[Asmodeus451]

regarding your questions about Evasion, in MOST cases (and especially if Monk splashed) you can achieve a HIGHER AC in Robes at endgame than in Full Plate.

[Hobgoblin]

I don't understand why everyone stops at pally 6 tho? I haven't played a monk since my account is barely premium but taking a paladin to at least 7 grants the Auras another +1 to AC and +1 to all saves; among other things. The only benefit I have found in not going to Paladin 8 might be a 1 level splash of Wizard for the extra Spell Points and the bonus caster feat; but I'd think the Bull's Strength and Eagle's Splendor would be too missed, not to mention the extra Lay on Hands.
Again, all of this is coming from someone new to the game who's largest group experience was 3 including me

Lot of people go to 12 fighter/6 pally/2 monk/rogue for evasion and either extra feats or umd as a class skill

[Messsenger]

regarding your questions about Evasion, in MOST cases (and especially if Monk splashed) you can achieve a HIGHER AC in Robes at endgame than in Full Plate.

I'll have to check out the details some time. Just doesn't seem right to see a fighter tanking in robes. I guess you could consider Gandolf tanking the Balrog in robes . . . . . .

[Messsenger]

Lot of people go to 12 fighter/6 pally/2 monk/rogue for evasion and either extra feats or umd as a class skill

Got it. So those splashing for Evasion are intending on tanking in Robes (or light armor at least) so that the Evasion is still effective. I'd like to see a side by side comparison of Endgame AC . . Robes vs Plate (without consumables). Kind of a bummer to find out now; I'd have liked to get the skill benefits of 1st level rogue; and a healthier Dexterity (as I was basing it on a max bonus cap from plate).

[Jendrak]

ummmm....i couldnt help but notice (and really suprised that nobody else did ) that you took the force of personality at lvl 15. This is a complete waste since you are already getting your cha to all your saves from the pally levels. I would highly recommend shield mastery instead at 15 and then improved shield mastery at 18 to benefit from higher DR% when it really matetrs.

As for numbers to shoot for i woud say: (my stalwart has all of these -the reflex save)
AC: 85+
HP: 700+
DR: as high as possible you can never have too much
Saves: a reflex of 30+ is always helpful if you have evasion

[Messsenger]

ummmm....i couldnt help but notice (and really suprised that nobody else did ) that you took the force of personality at lvl 15. This is a complete waste since you are already getting your cha to all your saves from the pally levels. I would highly recommend shield mastery instead at 15 and then improved shield mastery at 18 to benefit from higher DR% when it really matetrs.

As for numbers to shoot for i woud say: (my stalwart has all of these -the reflex save)
AC: 85+
HP: 700+
DR: as high as possible you can never have too much
Saves: a reflex of 30+ is always helpful if you have evasion

Divine Grace and Force of Personality looked like they stacked in the Character Generators I used; I haven't gotten that far "in game" yet to see if they do for real. If they do that's going to be a huge boost to the Will save as my Charisma should be well over 20 at lvl 20 when gear comes into play.

[Hobgoblin]

yes they stack, but what he is saying is they will be high enough with your pally bonus and fop is unneccessary

hob

[Messsenger]

yes they stack, but what he is saying is they will be high enough with your pally bonus and fop is unneccessary

hob

I didn't think a Save could be high enough; guess I'll have to check the numbers on that. I just know it's not a good thing when the Tank gets CC'd and for how low the other save feats are I figured +5 (lvl 20 base) to my lowest save was a good bargain.

[Messsenger]

Thanks for the numbers Jendrak. I did an overhaul to add UMD and Evasion to the mix (now that I know a bit more about the usefulness robes) and came up with this. I'm sure the DPS will a bit lower and if Force of Personality is still overkill; or if Shield Bash is garbage (as it may be, just trying to make up for lost DPS) they can be swapped out for Imp. Shield Mastery, Lightning Reflexes, or another Toughness.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

This would be a pretty straight forward S&B mid-grade tank with mediocre Intimidate and Divine Righteousness for aggro tools to support Bastard Sword Glances and Cleaves.

2 Lay on Hands for hairy situations, and Unyielding Sovereignty as an "Oh Sh#t!" button every 10 mins.

As I mentioned before, I'm not trying to Tank raids with a build like this; just solid soloing and hopefully some lvl 20 Epic Dungeons. . .

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 304
Spell Points: 50 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 17
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity            13                    14
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         13                    13
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             15                    18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    18
Bluff                 2                     6
Concentration         1                     6
Diplomacy             2                     6
Disable Device        5                     5
Haggle                6                     8
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  1                     2
Intimidate            6                    29
Jump                  7                    22
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         1                     2
Open Lock             5                     6
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                5                     5
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  7                    11
Tumble                5                     6
Use Magic Device      6                    27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 8 (Fighter)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Bastard Sword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization I


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Bastard Sword Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III

http://forums.ddo.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I appreciate the feedback; hoping to get it right without too much wasted leveling

[Henuindohr]

About evasion i found this one...

" Spurred by the continued development of the Monk, it has become time to address Evasion in medium and heavy armor. From now on the Rogue class ability Evasion will only function in light or no armor, when not helpless, and when not heavily encumbered. We are intentionally deviating from the Player's Handbook in permitting Evasion while moderately encumbered as a character in DDO cannot say to their DM: "I drop my pack full of treasure on the ground, I'll pick it back up later."

source: http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_4.1
if it is correct evasion should work with medium and heavy armor too.... is it correct?

[karl_k0ch]

About evasion i found this one...

if it is correct evasion should work with medium and heavy armor too.... is it correct?

No. As of that quote, Evasion works only in Light or No Armor. That's roughly for 2 years now.

Re: OP.
Evasion is a very useful means of damage mitigation. Going pure pally or Fighter will deal more damage than a monk splash. A 12 Fighter/6 Pally/2 whatever will have the benefits of the Kensei's DPS and the Hate generating goodies of a pally (i.e. Divine Righteousness). Honestly, I do not see the benefits of 8 pally vs. 6 pally.
Btw: When soloing, you have the hate, all of the time. There's noone who can pull the aggro from you. Intimidate is only moderately useful in these situations. On a melee, soloing will become tough past level 12.

If you are interested in a good melee toon who can solo a fair part of the game, and is self-sufficient, maybe a Ranger build is also interesting to you. Namely the Exploiter, i.e. 18 Ran/1Rog/1Mnk who has self-healing, trap skills and a decent AC potential, or a more modern approach which is 15ran/4fgt/1rog for more damage, but less AC.

[FrozenNova]

You seem to be looking for The Sword Saint.

[unbongwah]

if it is correct evasion should work with medium and heavy armor too.... is it correct?

IIRC, this was a P&P rule change from 3.0 to 3.5 which DDO (and NWN 2) adopted.

Also, two things to note about monk 2 splashes:

1. You don't need to wear robes. Yes, you lose your WIS AC bonus if you do, but if you're going the S&B tank route, you'd lose it anyway. And you still get those two extra feats, +3 to all saves, and Evasion (if wearing light).
2. Just because you have Evasion doesn't mean you need to use it all the time. So if you're making a S&B tank, maybe you have light armor or robes you wear when Evasion is more useful, then a suit of heavy armor for when you need max AC (presuming you're willing to grind for both sets). Ideally you have max AC in light armor so you get Evasion too, but sometimes you gotta make tradeoffs...