Arcane Archer - 12 fighter/6 ranger/2 rogue

[Taters214]

I'm thinking elven 12 fighter / 6 ranger / 2 rogue for my arcane archer, but after a little searching I didn't turn up any similar builds. Am I missing them or is there a reason this multi-class split may be flawed? It seems like many of the ranger bonuses come lvl 6 and before, and I can make up for the free feats that rangers get in later levels with all the extra fighter bonus feats (and then some). I only get lvl one spells, but I can live with that.

When I look at the final build it seems this should be excellent at ranged but also very good at melee when I pull out duel khopeshes. However, most arcane archer builds I've seen on the forums put in a lot more levels of ranger (usually at least 11). So I'm wondering if there is a reason for that (besides free feats and spells). Am I missing something?

My plan:
elf
kensai II at character lvl 20
arcane archer (elven race option) @ lvl 8

starting base stats / modified stats (before equipment)
STR 14 / 18
DEX 18 / 26
CON 14 / 14
INT 14 / 16
WIS 8 / 8
CHR 8 / 8
32 pt build and will us +2 STR tome and +2 INT tome at lvl 7

ROGUE - to max out UMD, search, and disable device, and get evasion

Selected Feats
point blank shot
FE: giant
WF: ranged
FE: evil outsider
mental toughness
khopesh
IC: ranged
toughness
weapon spec. ranged
precise shot
improved precise shot
GTWF
IC: slashing
OTWF
Power Critical
Great weapon spec: ranged

[Fetchi]

This is a fun build. I built mine a little differently and have had a blast. My only issue was having to eat a +4 Con tome and invest heavily in hp gear to push above 500hps. I can reach a max STR of 64. I didn't go AA, I went kensei khopesh but I'm considering swapping a few feats to give it try. She has never had a problem with traps in the game either. I also considered posting this build, but like you, couldn't see what I was missing and why others haven't posted it before. I think its a great alternative to the helves angel, but with trap skills.

Edit: One thing I noticed is that you put levels ups in DEX. Put all levels up in STR, especially for falling back on dual khopeshes and for better damage with your bow.

Here's an old example of my build when I first planned her, I just copied and pasted so it's a little dated:

True Neutral - Elf
(2 Rogue | 6 Ranger | 12 Fighter)

Hit Points: 342
Spell Points: 40

BAB: 19/19/24/29/29

Fortitude: 16 | 28
Reflex: 18 | 29
Will: 7 | 19

STR 16 (+5 Lvls +2 Enh +6 Item + 2 Tome +3 Exc +2 Spell +2 Rage +6 Psionic + 8 Kensei +2/2 Madstone +2 Ship) 56/58
DEX 16 (+6 Item +2 Enhancement +2 Tome) 26
CON 14 (+6 Item +2 Tome) 22
INT 14 (+2 Tome) 16
WIS 10 (+6 Item +2 Tome) 18
CHA 08 (+6 Item +2 Tome) 16

Balance 24
Jump 25
Disable Device 41
Open Lock 40
Search 49
Spot 40
Tumble 28
UMD 43

L1-Rog Past Life: Ranger* | Dodge
L2-Rgr Bow Strength* | Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
L3-Rgr Rapid Shot* | Two-Weapon Fighting* | Mobility
L4-Rgr Diehard*
L5-Rgr
L6-Rgr Spring Attack | Favored Enemy: Undead
L7-Rgr Many Shot* | Improved Two-Weapon Fighting* | Tempest I
L8-Rog Evasion**
L9-Ftr Toughness | Improved Critical: Slashing
L10-Ftr Power Attack
L11-Ftr
L12-Ftr Weapon Focus: Slashing | Greater Two Weapon Fighting
L13-Ftr
L14-Ftr Weapon Specialization: Slashing | Kensei I
L15-Ftr Stunning Blow
L16-Ftr Khopesh
L17-Ftr
L18-Ftr OTWF | Quickdraw
L19-Ftr
L20-Ftr Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing | Kensei II


Head – Minos Legens
Neck – +6 WIS | Silver Flame Talisman
Trinket – Bloodstone | Head of Good Fortune
Cloak –
Belt – Knost’s Belt: +6 CON | Greater False Life
Ring – Encrusted Ring: +6 STR | +3 Exceptional STR
Gloves – Titan’s Grip: +6 STR
Boots – Madstone
Ring – Tumbleweed: +6 DEX | Attack +2 | Tumble +10
Wrists – Earth3: +45 HPs
Goggles –Negative3: Disease Immunity | Proof vs. Poison | Fear Immunity | Blindness Immunity | Deathblock
Armor – Red Dragon Scale +6 CHA

Oh and this was a 34 point build.

[karl_k0ch]

There is a similar Half-Elf build: The Helves Angel. It takes 2 Monk levels and the Rogue Dilly for more feats and more sneak attack damage. Also, it has more HP.

The combination of Rogue and 12 Fighter is a combination which requires careful planning. As Search, Disable and UMD are no fighter class skills, you either need to make sure that you get 16 Int (2 Fighter skills + 4 Int skills), or you need to delay the last Rogue level until later (i.e. taking Evasion really late), or taking the Ranger levels later (i.e. delaying TWF and Manyshot).

I'd go Str-based as well. You have the weapon focuses and the Kensai enhancements to get a reasonable to-hit number.

Consider using Quickdraw + Racial weapons instead of Khopeshes. It's cheaper, has a better to-hit, and is not too far behind, damage-wise.

Re: Fetchi's build. I'd take the FEs in the different order, but I'd still take the same. Though Constructs are a runner-up instead of Undead. For a 32pt, lower wis to 8. I think you could squeeze out some more skill points if you delay Rogue to level 10, and take the two Fighter levels before that.

Re: Feats. I would not take Power Critical, but Power Attack.
Imho, Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot as well as IC: Ranged are a good investment for any ranged character.

[Krinn83]

What about you take 11 ranger levels (for free twf/archery feats, skills, extra favored enemy and better spells), 7 rogue levels (assassin I, more skills, more sneak attacks especially while meleeing) and 2 fighter levels (for feats)?

The added dps from kensai II is less than what you can get with sneak attacks (5d6+9 and another +8 with gear), since pure fighters and barbarians will grab aggro anyway and rogue 7 allows for Rogue Haste Boost III.
Save a feat and go scimitars/rapiers, so you can use your racial enhancements and use radiance ones when soloing for more sneak attacks.
Alternating ranger and rogue will let you maximize all trap related skills and steath (use rogue levels to raise open lock, disable device and umd, and ranger levels for hide, move silently, search and spot) with a 12 INT.

Feats:
Toughness
Power Attack
Point Blank Shot
Weapon Focus Ranged
Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (not vital but helps compensating the 2 points of BAB you lose with rogue levels)
Mental Toughness
Improved Critical Ranged
Improved Critical Slashing or Piercing
Extend Spell (not vital but I don't like to recast my buffs every 11 mins, especially if you are buffing resists in raids)

[karl_k0ch]

Well, well. The added DPS via Kensai 2 is hard to compare with the one of a 11/7/2 split.

12Fgt/6Ran/2Rog add:

• Flat ranged-only damage (+2 (G)WSpec, +3 Enh, I forgot something, possibly) which is multiplied by crits
• Haste Boost IV
• Power Surge (Bursty +4 damage, also applies to melee)

Ran11/Rog7/Fgt2 adds:

• 3d6 + 6 SA damage for ranged and mellee, which only applies within Point Blank Range, and if the mob has either no aggro or is blined
• +3 damge against Favored enemies, and another FE type
• only haste boost III
• more freeness in the stat spread due to lesser Int and Dex requirements.
• The option of picking up a rogue PrE for either +1d6 SA damage, or Mechanic for more pewpewpew fun.
• Self-sustainable 30 Resistance

Ok, I admit, the comparison was not so difficult, but it shows that the benefits of the two are of different type. If you want to emphasize on unsituational Ranged damage, the 12/6/2 is a good bet. If you want to boost your melee damage as well, and add better, but situational damage, an 11/7/2 might be suited better.

OP, the following thread might be of interest to you: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=295512
It contains some discussion, and also some more builds on the latter pages.

[Krinn83]

Well, well. The added DPS via Kensai 2 is hard to compare with the one of a 11/7/2 split.

12Fgt/6Ran/2Rog add:

• Flat ranged-only damage (+2 (G)WSpec, +3 Enh, I forgot something, possibly) which is multiplied by crits
• Haste Boost IV
• Power Surge (Bursty +4 damage, also applies to melee)

Ran11/Rog7/Fgt2 adds:

• 3d6 + 6 SA damage for ranged and mellee, which only applies within Point Blank Range, and if the mob has either no aggro or is blined
• +3 damge against Favored enemies, and another FE type
• only haste boost III
• more freeness in the stat spread due to lesser Int and Dex requirements.
• The option of picking up a rogue PrE for either +1d6 SA damage, or Mechanic for more pewpewpew fun.
• Self-sustainable 30 Resistance

Ok, I admit, the comparison was not so difficult, but it shows that the benefits of the two are of different type. If you want to emphasize on unsituational Ranged damage, the 12/6/2 is a good bet. If you want to boost your melee damage as well, and add better, but situational damage, an 11/7/2 might be suited better.

OP, the following thread might be of interest to you: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=295512
It contains some discussion, and also some more builds on the latter pages.

the 13/6/1 rogue/ranger/fighter doesn't have enough feats for my tastes, in that build either you go improved precise shot or improved critical slashing and power attack. But I feel a true archer needs all of those feats.
Ranged DPS with manyshot and IPS is fine but when manyshot is off timer an archer must have a melee dps option, especially against single bosses where IPS isn't as useful too. Versatility is great for an archer, using bow alone is a way to gimp oneself. In any case, U11 and its new Point Blank Shot means every archer will enjoy point blank range (double base weapon damage), thus increasing sneak attack opportunities and opportunity to easily switch to melee.
I'd personally go with undead, construct and evil outsiders as favored enemies: two are usually immune to sneak attacks and are very common especially with U11, the other one is for the most difficult bosses and epic chronoscope, which currently is the most difficult epic raid. Only Elementals, Plants and Oozes will face weaker dps due to no favored enemy and no sneak attack, but those are not that difficult to kill anyway.
In epics, held mobs are vulnerable to sneak attacks as well. Imagine a manyshot volley against lined up, held mobs!

PS: also, don't forget rogue damage boost II which will be nice by U11. Assassins need that enhancement anyway and it'd be nice as a dps boost on the way to the boss.

[karl_k0ch]

the 13/6/1 rogue/ranger/fighter doesn't have enough feats for my tastes, in that build either you go improved precise shot or improved critical slashing and power attack.

I feel the same way.
This is why I put up two 11/7/2 concept builds on page 2 (post #24) of the thread I linked.

[Krinn83]

I feel the same way.
This is why I put up two 11/7/2 concept builds on page 2 (post #24) of the thread I linked.

Monk instead of fighter.
A bit extra AC and 4 extra skill points vs 9 more hit points, +1 BAB and +1 strength. Needs a feat to use the bow as monk weapon to benefit from stances and loses scimitars/rapiers synergy, so it's effectively one less feat than fighter.

Alternatively one can go wizard instead of fighter or monk:
* no need for mental toughness to become an AA (saves a feat)
* 175 sp with energy of the scholar I (plus bonus from high INT) instead of 105 sp from mental toughness
* the bonus feat at 1st level can be extend spell which is useful (saves a feat)
* only lose 1 BAB to the fighter dip
* 4 mins shields, protection from evil, featherfall, jump, tumble and expeditious retreats (6 mins with a reward from Catacombs or the starter wizard robe for a veteran character), pick your favourite 4 spells. And GREASE.
* echoes of power
* higher will save
* 22 less hit points than fighter route

[karl_k0ch]

Monk instead of fighter.
A bit extra AC and 4 extra skill points vs 9 more hit points, +1 BAB and +1 strength. Needs a feat to use the bow as monk weapon to benefit from stances and loses scimitars/rapiers synergy, so it's effectively one less feat than fighter.

That's true. 2 Fighter is a valuable replacement for 2 Monk on these builds. I appreciate the input and added a not on the builds linked there.

The Zen Archery feat is not strictly required, it's more a flavor feat. Monk has the benefit of better melee damage against highly fortified targets, but I really appreciate your remarks, as Fighter looks liek a better idea for more ranged damage.

As far as the BAB is concerned, the most important mark, namely 16 for a 4-arrow manyshot, is passed. If there are to-hit problems, divine power is a nice addition.

[unbongwah]

Presuming the OP doesn't have HE or monk: I would go base stats 16 / 17 / 14 / 12 / 8 / 8 with lvl-ups into STR. Take +2 DEX tome to qualify for Imp Prec Shot. Drop OTWF & Power Crit; add Power Atk & Quick Draw, or maybe go khopesh Kensai instead of longbow Kensai (drop WS & GWS Ranged, add WF/WS/GWS Slash).

[Taters214]

Thanks for all the good ideas, everyone. What I initially overlooked when designing the build was the sneak attack damage. Now that I weigh between the two (kensai damage vs. sneak attack), I think that the SA will contribute more overall DPS. I already rolled one arcane archer (human 14 ranger / 6 rogue build leveled to 8 or so) and was playing some when I realized I screwed myself out of a lot of the later AA special arrows by not taking elf. Anyway, what I noticed was that the SA damage was really noticeable. So, I've deciding on 11 ranger / 7 rogue / 2 fighter

I dropped khopesh and elected scimitars to use elven enhancement bonuses.
Took quick draw (does this help with switching between bows and melee weapons, or is it just for less delay when triggering boosts?).
Took power attack.
And then WF: ranged, Toughness, IC: ranged, IC: slashing, OTWF (for the other slots where I have a choice)

My level progression 1 - rogue, 2-7 ranger, 8 rogue, 9-13 ranger, 14-18 rogue, 19-20 fighter

My reasoning is to get all the good ranger feats and spells ASAP, but I want evasion earlier rather than later, so I take 1 level of rogue at 8. Then I pound out the rogue levels to get SA damage and assassin prestige class. Finally finish with fighter levels - the 2 bonus feats are nice, but not that important, so they can wait.

Modified Stats before any equipment will be
STR 20 (+2 tome)
DEX 22
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 8
CHA 8

[Krinn83]

Yeah 14 INT will let you handle non optimal leveling order and still get your thieving skills, although I'd take the fighter levels earlier to be able to top the important skills at last levels.

If you'd like to pursue an optimal leveling order for rogue skills, you can go as low as 12 INT and thus have more room for dex, str or con.
Use rogue levels to raise open lock, disable device and UMD.
Use ranger levels to raise search, spot, hide, move silently.
Use fighter levels to raise open lock, disable device and UMD (cross class).
Result: 23 ranks in hide, move silently, search, disable device, open lock, UMD. 21 ranks in spot but can cast wild instinct for a +10.

1 rogue 1
2 fighter 1
3 ranger 1
4 fighter 2
5 ranger 2
6 rogue 2
7-8 ranger 3-4
9 rogue 3
10-11 ranger 5-6
12 rogue 4
13-14 ranger 7-8
15 rogue 5
16-17 ranger 9-10
18 rogue 6
19 ranger 11
20 rogue 7

This is the build I'm playing with, currently at 9th level and just started shooting force arrows with my Silver Bow. Melee weapons are +5 scimitars and occasionally a falchion. By level 11 I will have manyshot and improved two weapon fighting.
I took extend spell instead of quick draw so my buffs will last 22 mins during a raid or epic quest and I don't have to rebuff.

11/7/2 Ranger/Thief/Fighter
Race: Elf
Alignment: True Neutral

Starting attributes
STR 16 +5 levelup
DEX 17
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 08
CHA 08

Ranger Feats:
TWF - ITWF - GTWF
Bow Strength - Rapid Shot - Manyshot - PS - IPS
Favored Enemy: Undead, Evil Outsider, Construct

Fighter Feats:
1) Power Attack
2) PBS

General Feats:
1) Toughness
3) WF: Ranged
6) OTWF
9) Mental Toughness
12) IC: Ranged
15) IC: Slashing
18) Extend Spell

Fighter/Thief Skills: Disable Device, Open Lock, UMD
Ranger Skills: Hide, Move Silently, Search, Spot
1st level only: Balance, Tumble, Jump

                TFRFRTRRTRRTRRTRRTRT
Disable Device  4. 1 4  3  3  3  3 2
Open Lock       4. 1 1  3 13 13 13 2
UMD             4. 1 4  3  3  3  3 2
Move Silently   4 2 2 21 21 21 21 21
Hide            4 1 1 14 12 12 12 21
Search          4 2 2 21 21 21 21 21
Spot            4 2 2 21 21 21 21 1 
Balance         4
Tumble          1
Jump            3

Spells loaded:
L1 - Ram's Might, Resist Energy
L2 - Protection from Energy, Barkskin
L3 - Wild Instincts

Elf Enhancements: [38 AP]
Valenar Elf Melee Attack I [2 AP]
Valenar Elf Melee Damage II [6 AP]
Elven Ranged Attack I [2 AP]
Elven Ranged Damage II [6 AP]
Racial Toughness II [3 AP]
Elven Arcane Archer I [4 AP]
Conjure +5 Arrows [4 AP]
Imbue Force Arrows [1 AP]
Imbue Acid Arrows [1 AP]
Imbue Explosive Arrows [1 AP]
Imbue Terror Arrows [1 AP]
Imbue Slaying Arrows [1 AP]
Elven Dexterity II [6 AP]

Thief Enhancements: [28 AP]
Rogue Damage Boost II [3 AP]
Rogue Haste Boost III [6 AP]
Rogue Skill Boost I [1 AP]
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II [3 AP]
Rogue Sneak Attack Training III [6 AP]
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I [1 AP]
Improved Hide II [2 AP]
Improved Move Silently II [2 AP]
Rogue Assassin I [4 AP]

Ranger Enhancements: [11 AP]
Ranger Sprint Boost I [1 AP]
Ranger Favored Attack I [2 AP]
Ranger Favored Damage III [6 AP]
Ranger Dexterity I [2 AP]

Fighter Enhancements: [3 AP]
Fighter Toughness I [1 AP]
Fighter Strength I [2 AP]

Total: [80 AP]

[karl_k0ch]

Took quick draw (does this help with switching between bows and melee weapons, or is it just for less delay when triggering boosts?).

Most builds take them because of the second feature you mentioned. This build will also benefit from the first one.

Re: Your leveling order: As Figher has very few skill points to spend, it's not advisable to take these as the last levels, but rather take one or two rogue levels after taking the fighter levels to compensate for the lack of skill points, so you have 23 in all your interesting skills once you hit 20.

I'd probably go
1 Rog
2-7 Ran
8 Rog
9-13 Ran
14-15 Fgt
16-20 Rog,

which leaves a dent in the skills at 14-15, but the initial int should be good enough to almost keep up DD and Search, even on the fighter levels.

If you'd like to pursue an optimal leveling order for rogue skills, you can go as low as 12 INT and thus have more room for dex, str or con.
Use rogue levels to raise open lock, disable device and UMD.
Use ranger levels to raise search, spot, hide, move silently.
Use fighter levels to raise open lock, disable device and UMD (cross class).
Result: 23 ranks in hide, move silently, search, disable device, open lock, UMD. 21 ranks in spot but can cast wild instinct for a +10.

I'd deviate from this plan slightly. While leveling, more UMD is convenience and your number of tries on locks is just limited by the number of lockpicks in your bag. This is why I tend to neglect these two rogue skills while leveling. I'm aiming for 23 UMD ranks, anyway.
Traps, however, are not so forgiving and can explode in your face. This is why I'd do the following, possibly resulting in a lesser overall skill point number than what Krinn83 suggested, but a smoother progression while leveling.

Fighter levels: Disable and Search.
Ranger levels: Disable and Search, remaining points: Spot, Hide*, Move Silently*. Still remaining points: UMD
Rogue levels: Disable, Search and UMD. Remaining points: Spot, Open Locks, Hide*, Move Silently*, Jump, Balance.

*If wanted.

[Taters214]

With 4 skill points for the last 2 levels of fighter, I'm able to keep search and UMD maxed out, while disable device is the only "important" skill at that point that loses 2 ranks by taking fighter as the last 2 levels.

At 20 key skills (after mods but before equipment)
balance 27
disable device 23
hide 27
jump 20
move silently 31
open lock 10
search 27
spot 22
UMD 22

With 14 INT I'm able to hit some key skills that I like to have, balance being one of them (being tripped and helpless sucks...). If my disable device suffers by 2 points, I'm sure the toon will still have no problem disabling traps.

Of importance to mention is that end game content holds little interest to me. The fun for me is leveling a toon as seeing how cool he is. Once I hit level 18 (sometimes 20) I lose interest and usually roll up another toon. I'll do key raids like Shroud with some sort of frequency (and then mostly when my guild is looking for people to fill) but my capped and high level toons get little use. This is why I want to optimize the build as fast as possible, thus taking the two fighter levels last.

[karl_k0ch]

Of importance to mention is that end game content holds little interest to me. The fun for me is leveling a toon as seeing how cool he is. Once I hit level 18 (sometimes 20) I lose interest and usually roll up another toon. I'll do key raids like Shroud with some sort of frequency (and then mostly when my guild is looking for people to fill) but my capped and high level toons get little use. This is why I want to optimize the build as fast as possible, thus taking the two fighter levels last.

Fair point.

You should ask yourself how valuable UMD is in that case. I can't decide that for you. It's possible, that with this play style, UMD won't be used to cast scrolls.