WF 2fvs/18sorc

[Nikospade]

I seen a lot of talk of the 18/2 pally/sorc build. Could a fvs/sorc build be just as effective. WF get profiency in greatswords and the character i plan on using would be a single TR fighter that was kensei greatsword. You would have much more damage with the fvs boosts and spell points. Does anyone thing this could work. Starting stats would look something like this

STR 16
DEX 8
CON 18
INT 8
WIS 6
CHA 14

4 points left over to put wherever.

[Tinco]

2 levels of paladin are used for the saves and not really for melee. Sorcs don't need a melee option at all (level 6+), their dirt-cheap spell like abilities and powerful elemental nukes outshine everything they could ever do with a greatsword. I'd really stick to 20 sorc or if you're feeling fancy an evasion splash (monk/rogue) or a paladin splash for aforementioned reasons.

[Iwinbyrollup]

FvS would take away much more than it would bring to the build. You get the greatsword proficiency, yes, but you'd get that going Paladin as well. Even without the proficiency, however, you could easily get it using the Master's Touch spell.

More regarding the paladin splash and saves. FvS get better saves than Paladins from leveling, but Paladins can still easily end up with better saves. This is because Paladins get Divine Grace at level 2. The Divine Grace feat means that the Charisma mod is added to all of your saves. This very significantly improves your saves over anything 2 levels of FvS would bring.

2 FvS means you get a few extra hundred SP, but you won't need it. A casting-focused Sorcerer can get a ton of SP while a melee-focused Sorcerer just doesn't need all the SP you'll get anyway. It's very easy to get extremely high SP on a Sorcerer.

2 FvS brings very little to your damage. You can get Damage Boost I and that's it. That is a nice boost after U11, but 100 seconds of damage boost isn't going to make up for how much you'd lose by going this route.

[Phidius]

...2 FvS means you get a few extra hundred SP, but you won't need it. ...

While 2 FvS brings 150 spell points, going 18 Sorc instead of 20 costs you 245.

However, a FvS with 22 Cha gets 66 spell poitns, and the 18 sorc with 22 Cha loses 12, so overall splashing 2 FvS only costs you 41 spell points.

[Iwinbyrollup]

While 2 FvS brings 150 spell points, going 18 Sorc instead of 20 costs you 245.

However, a FvS with 22 Cha gets 66 spell poitns, and the 18 sorc with 22 Cha loses 12, so overall splashing 2 FvS only costs you 41 spell points.

Yeah, I was comparing it more to the Paladin (where it does gain more SP) than the pure Sorc.

[jsaving]

I seen a lot of talk of the 18/2 pally/sorc build. Could a fvs/sorc build be just as effective. WF get profiency in greatswords and the character i plan on using would be a single TR fighter that was kensei greatsword. You would have much more damage with the fvs boosts and spell points. Does anyone thing this could work.

Because splashing involves sacrifice, you generally don't want to do it unless there are synergies you can exploit with your primary class. If you're a cleric with high wisdom, for example, you can leverage that high WIS by splashing monk and picking up its wisdom bonus to AC. If you're a wizard with high intelligence, knowing that trapsmithing and (with the insightful reflexes feat) evasion both improve with INT, it can make a lot of sense to splash rogue. And if you're a sorcerer with high charisma, you can leverage your high CHA by splashing paladin for its charisma bonus to saves.

The key with each of these splashes is that they become ever more valuable as you max out a stat you'd want to be high anyway, which minimizes the sacrifice involved in a splash while maximizing the gain. What you'd need to ask about the favored soul is whether there's a similarly strong feature you'd be able to aptly leverage with 18 levels of sorcerer. And unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be. You'd lose two 9th level spells and about 100 spell points by making the splash, and while your favored soul spell DCs would be good, the spells themselves would be too weak to help you. On the melee side, you're right that you'd gain greatsword proficiency and the first-tier damage boost enhancement, but that's far too little -- in my opinion at least -- to offset what you'd lose on the sorcerer side of the equation.

[Phidius]

Yeah, I was comparing it more to the Paladin (where it does gain more SP) than the pure Sorc.

That clears it up for me

Op, just thought I'd point out that splashing 2 paladin on a sorc isn't generally considered to be effective, at least not if you plan on playing above level 9-10.

[Nikospade]

Thanks for all the insight. I was told by my guild leader that the pally/sorc build is very gear intensive but can be a good end game build if done right. I got a few greensteel items, a docent of defiance, and a few other good raid items that will help me make this a good build.

[Shade]

Yeah, I was comparing it more to the Paladin (where it does gain more SP) than the pure Sorc.

I can't see how any build can gain more SP then a pure sorc, least not when fully geared.

Reason is the SP doubling of items, it gets cut down percentage wise as you splash.

So a +600 SP greensteel item, +100 armagi item (over the GS wizardry), +100 cunning trinket = 800 from gear.

splash 2 = lose 10% of item bonus.. So -80 ontop of the base loss.

What does 2 pal give for SP anyways? wis mod bonus? not much on most sorc builds.

Actually since fvs get the SP doubling too tho, im not sure if they would take this penalty or not, depends on how its coded i guess.

[flaggson]

I can't see how any build can gain more SP then a pure sorc, least not when fully geared.

Reason is the SP doubling of items, it gets cut down percentage wise as you splash.

So a +600 SP greensteel item, +100 armagi item (over the GS wizardry), +100 cunning trinket = 800 from gear.

splash 2 = lose 10% of item bonus.. So -80 ontop of the base loss.

What does 2 pal give for SP anyways? wis mod bonus? not much on most sorc builds.

Actually since fvs get the SP doubling too tho, im not sure if they would take this penalty or not, depends on how its coded i guess.

yep your right about the spell points shade..... it's really just kind of a so-so trade off... you lose over 200 sp total and 20% dmg for really good saves and a meh lay on hands..... many moons ago I made this kind of build 2pally rest sorc, but given the current game environment I think it now gives up way to much for saving throws that are pretty easy to push up anyway. Don't get me wrong having saves in the 40's is cool to look at, but unnecessary.