card buyers beware

[Missing_Minds]

Our argument was not that we were mislead, it's that cards should be included in this sale. There is no earthly reason for them not to be, except to get extra money from all the prople who don't read the fine print and buy a card under the implication that it would have an extra bonus.

Incorrect. If that was true then the listed point value would be wrong and that would bring about lawsuits.

With point cards, you are buying the points at that very moment. It doesn't matter when you redeem them or what point sales are going on--for all intents and purposes, you have already purchased those points. No sales apply.

correct.

Should of bought a visa gift card and use it to buy the points, not the Turbine point card that has a predetermine amount of points attach to it.

This form is a form of what should be done should you wish to get the DDO Store bonus TP points, not Target, Walmart, Gamestop, or what have you in your local region.

The only reason I've picked up these cards are as direct gifts for prize winners in the guild I'm in. (the prize varies depending upon the runner of the contest.)

What I also wish is that their was some online form of "gifting" DDO points through the store, such that you also got a little bit for yourself. Do note I said through the store and not from the point stock you yourself currently have.
Jack in the Box (fast food place in the US) during XMAS has a promo where if you get a $20 gift card, you also get a $5 gift card for yourself.

[Dysmetria]

The reason cards will never be part of the sale is simple. Turbine uses the point sales to encourage you to buy points directly from them.

They have to pay one company to make the cards, another to ship them, and charge a third a low enough price that they can sell it at face value and still make a big enough profit to make it worth their while.

Even with these point sales, Turbine makes more off the online purchases than they do the cards.

[Ookami_Tez]

I think there was some people who misunderstod what others were trying to say.

Now when you go to a shop and you find the Turbine Point Card case. It says the price in the shop (the card is owned by that shop not by Turbine at that point) and on the case it says how many points the card inside include. As such whatever Turbine (not the store) sell in sale on their own shop (online shop) doesn't have any impact on the card at the store. Thus buying the card only gives the points it says on the case of the card.

Refering to the resturant sample given before it would more be like Resturant A offers two steaks on the price of one. Now also they sell their food to Resturant B. You seing the add at Resturant A then go to Resturant B order two steaks and then whine about how you had to pay for two steaks and not one as the add said...the add at the other resturant.

Also there would be a problem that if cards would also get the bonus it would mean you could actully get a card (buy be gifted with one etc.) and then wait for a sale to go off and go redeem the points then. So all in all there is nothing wrong or anything to be fixed about the way thing is handeled at the moment. The point cards are in the ownership of the shops and thus the shops won't be giving you any kind of sale that Turbine is.

Have a good day all and hope you understod that all.

[Chai]

[url]It would be like going to a restaurant and seeing a flyer on the door as you enter "buy one steak dinner get 1/2 off a second one" you order two steak dinners, eat them, get the bill, pay the bill with a store bought gift card, and then find are told "sorry this form of payment is not eligible for the discount, there is a notice about it on a different door than the one you came in." Funny thing is this does not happen, if you get one of those restaurant card from say the Wal-Mart checkout line, and use it at the restaurant on the card, the card dollar amount is the same as cash, if it is $20 then it put against your bill as $20 even if you bought something on "sale".

I notice many customers over my career have played the "oh yeah, show me where it states that in the ad, cmon show me" card, and when I show them, their toon changes to "now whose going to actually read these things?"

Im not going to stand here and tell you that its right that they dont include the bonus points, but I will say they actually did have it posted on the front page, unlike a few other things that have been going on as of late.

[oberon131313]

It would be like going to a restaurant and seeing a flyer on the door as you enter "buy one steak dinner get 1/2 off a second one" you order two steak dinners, eat them, get the bill, pay the bill with a store bought gift card, and then find are told "sorry this form of payment is not eligible for the discount, there is a notice about it on a different door than the one you came in." Funny thing is this does not happen, if you get one of those restaurant card from say the Wal-Mart checkout line, and use it at the restaurant on the card, the card dollar amount is the same as cash, if it is $20 then it put against your bill as $20 even if you bought something on "sale".

your analogy is flawed. It's actually like you bought a gift card and then went into the restaurant and saw "A bonus when you purchase a new gift card," and then expected the bonus...

[Schmoe]

Again, for most of those concerned, "that very moment" was during a point sale. We bought the points when points were on sale and redeemed them when they were on sale, so this argument has no weight whatsoever.

The fact that it does state that the sale doesn't apply to cards is a good argument, but this is more about why it should apply to cards than why it didn't before.

I agree with you. I was actually coming to this forum to make this exact same post. I purchased a TP card on Saturday, hoping that I would be able to take advantage of the bonus weekend. I made the purchase during the promotion, but was unable to take part in the promotion.

Wouldn't it be nice if Turbine accompanied these promotions with a code that you could enter at the time of redeeming your TP card, so that you could get the same bonus points with the TP card that you could with a credit card or PayPal payment?

I'm sure there are a large number of people who prefer TP cards for a variety of very valid reasons. I expect Turbine would value their business as much as any other customer's business.

For people saying "read the fine print," or "lololol, sucks to be you." This isn't a post about being mad at what happened. I realized when I bought the card that there was a chance the promotion might apply. This is a post about what should be.

[Missing_Minds]

For people saying "read the fine print," or "lololol, sucks to be you." This isn't a post about being mad at what happened. I realized when I bought the card that there was a chance the promotion might apply. This is a post about what should be.

if Turbine sold a Turbine Ca$h card, then I'd be agreeing with you about the turbine sponsored/DDO store point buy bonus. (and if they did that you could actually sub or buy points.)

However, you are not. You are purchasing a DDO Point card for a set amount of points that is clearly listed on the card.
Are you too focused on the $ amount on the card that is right above the point value? That is the suggested retail price. You will find many items list their prices. Books, chips, etc. This does NOT stop the store from changing the value that they are selling it however. (At least in the US. I do not know about other countries.)

As with ANY PURCHASE, it is up to the consumer to pay attention to the details, or have we learned nothing from advertisements on TV for children (typically) breakfast cereals and board games?

[Uska]

Why are you so hung up on that one line?

And why can't you seem to understand that we don't want Turbine to "nanny" anything, we just want it to work fairly across all point bundles.

Again, I am not saying anything about our past purchases. I'm saying that in the future, it should be changed to be more fair. I have stopped caring about past purchases, therefore "taken responsibility onto myself." I only want them to change future policy.

Stop trolling, or actually read my posts next time.

Edit: Also consider that many people might not actually open the main page, they'll just see the "double bonus points promotion" link and go straight out to buy the card, having no opportunity to read the fine print.

those cards were printed long ago think about it like that the retailer paid whatever for them you just rebuying them the points that are preset as it says right on the card you are getting exactly what you paid for nothing less. I have bought them to and wont any more I will use visa gift cards and get points on sale.

[Schmoe]

if Turbine sold a Turbine Ca$h card, then I'd be agreeing with you about the turbine sponsored/DDO store point buy bonus. (and if they did that you could actually sub or buy points.)

However, you are not. You are purchasing a DDO Point card for a set amount of points that is clearly listed on the card.

As with ANY PURCHASE, it is up to the consumer to pay attention to the details, or have we learned nothing from advertisements on TV for children (typically) breakfast cereals and board games?

Again, I'm not mad that the promotion was structured the way it was. I just think it could be done better. I've provided a suggestion on how to improve it, if you'd like to weigh in with your opinion.

As far as the difference between a DDO point card for a set amount of points, vs. a credit card payment for a set amount of points, Turbine just decided that one type of purchase grants an extra bonus, whereas another did not. There is no intrinsic reason for one to be favored over the other, it's just the way it happened to be.

[Dysmetria]

As far as the difference between a DDO point card for a set amount of points, vs. a credit card payment for a set amount of points, Turbine just decided that one type of purchase grants an extra bonus, whereas another did not. There is no intrinsic reason for one to be favored over the other, it's just the way it happened to be.

There is an obvious reason why one will always be favored over the other, and it was mentioned multiple times already in this thread.

[Cleanincubus]

Straight from the back of every card:
"4.Points appropriate to the value of the card are added to your account, and you can make purchases immediately, in the DDO store."

There is no fine print that reads "But if there's a sale for online purchased points, we'll honor that bonus." It clearly states that the points on the card is what you're going to get. There's no reason to add any extra disclaimers, there's no reason to add any fine print to the cards. The answer is already there, right in the instructions for redeeming your points. It's all part of being an educated consumer. Read every word before making any purchase, think of the different ways those words could be interpreted, and automatically assume the worst interpretation is what is meant.


Would it be nice if they did add bonus promotion points to the cards? Of course, but it's never going to happen. The only way they would ever add more points to them, was if they decided to stop producing the cards all together. Even then, they're more likely to just keep them the same, and wait until they are all purchased.

[boomeranky]

Straight from the back of every card:
"4.Points appropriate to the value of the card are added to your account, and you can make purchases immediately, in the DDO store."

There is no fine print that reads "But if there's a sale for online purchased points, we'll honor that bonus." It clearly states that the points on the card is what you're going to get. There's no reason to add any extra disclaimers, there's no reason to add any fine print to the cards. The answer is already there, right in the instructions for redeeming your points. It's all part of being an educated consumer. Read every word before making any purchase, think of the different ways those words could be interpreted, and automatically assume the worst interpretation is what is meant.


Would it be nice if they did add bonus promotion points to the cards? Of course, but it's never going to happen. The only way they would ever add more points to them, was if they decided to stop producing the cards all together. Even then, they're more likely to just keep them the same, and wait until they are all purchased.

It might have helped if you had read the whole thread, where the op states that he is aware -now- that this is not included. As in the US you usually also need a note in manuals not to put living pets into microwave ovens to dry ... well, it is not as clear as you seem to think it is.

Personally i totally hate to use credit cards or paypal to buy stuff on the internet, and while i have a credit card available for stuff that i totally cannot get otherwise, paypal is a very big nono for me and turbine's point sales not enough reasons to give out credit card numbers, especially in shops where the number cannot be deleted by myself as the user.

Adding bonus promotion points while using the cards at point promotion times would be a reason for me to buy tp's more often than i do now.

Looking at today's f*c*book generation, your post might means i have failed a sarcasm check with a roll of 1. Nobody reads fine print below 100€ or $ purchases. Most do not even read it at 1k.

[Schmoe]

There is an obvious reason why one will always be favored over the other, and it was mentioned multiple times already in this thread.

I think your assumptions are flawed. Unless, of course, you can prove that the maintenance of an online store, along with the employee salaries, server costs, and software licenses, are cheaper than any costs incurred to print TP cards. Then I'll listen. But either way, it's not "obvious."

[GreenGurgler]

I think your assumptions are flawed. Unless, of course, you can prove that the maintenance of an online store, along with the employee salaries, server costs, and software licenses, are cheaper than any costs incurred to print TP cards. Then I'll listen. But either way, it's not "obvious."

So, because he cannot prove to you, specifically with all the criteria you laid out, that it is no cheaper to move some pixels around (on a billing website that already has hardware and staff onsite for billing purposes.. they didn't just start this new Turbine division of staff/resources JUST for this point sale you know...) is somehow magically NOT cheaper than them physically printing, distributing, tracking, etc (those stores don't offer retail space, labor, operating costs for free do they?), you refuse to believe it? You really don't see how its cheaper for Turbine to advertise a sale on their websites/servers/network vs having a 3rd party vendor physically sell these cards (that had to be printed, shipped, physically stocked on racks and inventoried) ??

Just because you don't want to believe A is cheaper than B, does not make it true. The burden of proof does not have to be on someone else just because you don't like what you hear.

I cant personally prove how and why gravity works, but I still have to obey it.

[Lucian_Navarro]

/Sarcasm On

So if you buy a gift card during a Bonus Points period and then redeem it during a non-bonus point peroid, you will be pleasantly surprised with bonus points?

/Sarcasm Off

[Schmoe]

So, because he cannot prove to you, specifically with all the criteria you laid out, that it is no cheaper to move some pixels around (on a billing website that already has hardware and staff onsite for billing purposes.. they didn't just start this new Turbine division of staff/resources JUST for this point sale you know...) is somehow magically NOT cheaper than them physically printing, distributing, tracking, etc (those stores don't offer retail space, labor, operating costs for free do they?), you refuse to believe it? You really don't see how its cheaper for Turbine to advertise a sale on their websites/servers/network vs having a 3rd party vendor physically sell these cards (that had to be printed, shipped, physically stocked on racks and inventoried) ??

Just because you don't want to believe A is cheaper than B, does not make it true. The burden of proof does not have to be on someone else just because you don't like what you hear.

I cant personally prove how and why gravity works, but I still have to obey it.

Allow me to summarize to hopefully make this clearer.

• Person A said "I'd like to be part of bonus point promotions when I buy Turbine Points via a Turbine Points Card."
• Person B said "They would never do that because Turbine Points Cards cost them so much more than running their online store."
• Person A said "How do you know?"

The funniest part of this whole discussion, though, is all the armchair economists. The thread is about a simple request, that Turbine Points purchased via a Turbine Points Card be included in bonus point promotions. Why do so many people care if this happens? Why have so many people leaped in to say Turbine shouldn't do it? Is this somehow threatening to those who pay via credit card or PayPal? Are Turbine Points Card users somehow the ghetto-users of DDO? Are they unclean, and worthy of a sound shunning? I don't get it. If you don't know for certain how the accounting works out, why not let Turbine handle the business end of it and instead just talk about the merits (or lack of merits) of the idea?

[ssgcmwatson]

Allow me to re-summarize to hopefully make this clearer to you.

• Person A said "I'd like to be part of bonus point promotions when I buy Turbine Points via a Turbine Points Card."
• Person B said "Yeah, that would be nice, but from a business sense it seems reasonable that they don't if you think about it. If you spend $20 directly at the Turbine Store, they get to keep it. If you spend $20 on a points card at [insert store here], then the store gets a cut, the shipping company gets a cut, the printing company gets a cut, on an on... it's like a 21st century version of I, Pencil. "
• Person A said "How do you know?"
• Person B replies "Well, it's either the basic economics that you learn in high school, or Turbine thinks that card users are unclean ghetto folks who deserve a good shunning. All things being equal, the former makes more sense. But I understand your frustration and feel your pain."

fixed in yellow