U11 Deadliest Warrior?

[Choopak]

Power Attack III = +6 damage per swing for 2HF - since Horcs start with +2 str, that's effectively +7.

Racial Damage Boost IV = +25% per swing 4/7 of the time.


Is that right?

If so, one would need a 49+ base damage (plus quickdraw or cleave twitch) to be more effective as a Human/H-Elf compared to Horc.


Early morning for me - not sure if that is sound maths!

You lost me at : 49+ base damage, how the hell you come up with this number??? the new damage boost add 25% more damage... a human or H-E would be able to have BOTH haste boost (from fighter) and damage boost on at the same time. Half-orc have more STR, more boosts, more damage enhancements.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Top DPS builds in U11:
H-elf is the race of choice, unless you're a barb.

Classes
Rogue
Fighter
Barb

They'll all be quite similar, with rogue at the top vs low fort, and fighter vs high, and barb solid against all of it.

Haven't run exact calculations, so take it with a grain of salt, but these estimations should be quite accurate. Will calc it when U11 is live.

[DrNuegebauer]

You lost me at : 49+ base damage, how the hell you come up with this number???

It was right there in the post.

25% extra damage for 20 out of 35 seconds (4/7 of the time).

If Horc PAttack = +7 compared to human/helf (+6 Pattack enhancements +1 base str being 2 higher) then what base damage is required to make the human/helf damage boost more beneficial?

49 is that number isn't it? (49*.25*4/7 = 7)

[grodon9999]

Top DPS builds in U11:
H-elf is the race of choice, unless you're a barb.

Classes
Rogue
Fighter
Barb

They'll all be quite similar, with rogue at the top vs low fort, and fighter vs high, and barb solid against all of it.

Haven't run exact calculations, so take it with a grain of salt, but these estimations should be quite accurate. Will calc it when U11 is live.

Looking forward to seeing the new calc, my ghetto=modified one show's Horc THFing ESOS to be above fighters though.

Will your new calc have the correct number of THFing attacks for barbs who cleave-twitch?

[~sumptingwong]

Hey guys, after reading U11 release notes, i was shock to see what they did with damage boost...
And so, after lifting my jaw in place, i started thinking about a few things...
Who will be the deadliest warrior?

1) Fighter 20 human, wow! haste boost 4, and now, human versatility (damage) 4... +30% speed/ damage

2) Barbarian 20, they were already DPS monsters, now they'll be DPS gods! equip a ESoS, game over!

3) Fighter 12/ Barbarian 8 human, strength and goodies of both!: haste boost 4, rage, speed, kensai II, and human boost damage... it's like a fighter on steroids... ouffffff

So who will be Deadliest???

Edit: i forgot to tell you, i have an ESoS, and will be TR (paladin past life) so will be THF

Strength biased Rogues will still be the top DPS, and with the alchemical weapons they can only get better

[Riksha]

Looking forward to seeing the new calc, my ghetto=modified one show's Horc THFing ESOS to be above fighters though.

Will your new calc have the correct number of THFing attacks for barbs who cleave-twitch?

right now horc barb with twitch cleave effect is the best dps vs more mobs

[grodon9999]

right now horc barb with twitch cleave effect is the best dps vs more mobs

Agreed, and the calc don't reflect this. I'm not talking about multiple-mob DPS which is un-calcable and clearly makes barbs, ubber, I'm talking about the extra single-target attacks they get from the attack-cleave combo

[DrNuegebauer]

Agreed, and the calc don't reflect this. I'm not talking about multiple-mob DPS which is un-calcable and clearly makes barbs, ubber, I'm talking about the extra single-target attacks they get from the attack-cleave combo

which makes them top DPS single target!

[Choopak]

First off, thanks guys you came out with not only good comments, but with facts/ math to back them up...
After reading you replies, i decide to let go of the fighter/ barbarian option, so only 2 remains:
1) half-orc pure barbarian, more HP, more all around DPS, fast, 1 man army, and utterly ugly.
2) half-elf pure fighter, more feats, haste boost AND damage boost, feats, Kensai III all this trap inside a child body.

Now, to all of you NOT reading the OP well; i have an ESoS and will be using it! STOP posting about rogue and TWF whatnut! I'm talking about a THF fighting nightmare, want to know the pros and cons... and: who is Dealiest?

[Alkindus]

I ran a couple tests and calculations for this when u11 first hit lam. I don't have the exact calculations nor the exact numbers but, roughly
20 Barb THF Half-orc - ~740 dps
20 Fighter TWF half-elf with the new triple air khopeshes - ~715 dps

I have a video posted on one of the damage boost threads that was I think a 1:57 kill for the giant.
It was a very sloppy attempt, I was missing guild buffs as well. Once update hits live It'll probablly be about a 1:52-1:54 or so since I'd be losing the buff from past life. Can divide 69,000 by that number and get a rough dps calculation that you can then factor in the +9 bard damage, deadly weapons, and the +8 sneak damage if you want to get a ballpark dps figure.

[Choopak]

That's what i'm talking about Alkindus! numbers, damage charts, something to tip the balance, an X factor, lol
i love fighters, the mechanics, tactics, speed!!!! and now if they can get a bit of barb monstrosity... nice! still open to both, undecided... hate the feeling, U11 coming soon, what's a TR to do?
BTW, if you haven't see the video made by children.. go take a look, ouchhhhh

[Cold_Stele]

First off, thanks guys you came out with not only good comments, but with facts/ math to back them up...
After reading you replies, i decide to let go of the fighter/ barbarian option, so only 2 remains:
1) half-orc pure barbarian, more HP, more all around DPS, fast, 1 man army, and utterly ugly.
2) half-elf pure fighter, more feats, haste boost AND damage boost, feats, Kensai III all this trap inside a child body.

Now, to all of you NOT reading the OP well; i have an ESoS and will be using it! STOP posting about rogue and TWF whatnut! I'm talking about a THF fighting nightmare, want to know the pros and cons... and: who is Dealiest?

You should add HElf Monster to that list of top U11 builds too.

If you're using eSoS though, then it's HOrc for you I'm afraid, HElves synergise badly with THF.

DPS calc is here - http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=40

[Lavek]

seems like Im gonna TR my rog into human from horc once I cap him again...grargh...the grind!

[Alkindus]

That's what i'm talking about Alkindus! numbers, damage charts, something to tip the balance, an X factor, lol
i love fighters, the mechanics, tactics, speed!!!! and now if they can get a bit of barb monstrosity... nice! still open to both, undecided... hate the feeling, U11 coming soon, what's a TR to do?
BTW, if you haven't see the video made by children.. go take a look, ouchhhhh

I think from a raw damage perspective it is mainly if you want to go twf or thf. A fighter is clearly the best at dealing damage unmodified by sneak when it comes to twf, and the same can be said about a barb for thf.

Though I will say in the upcoming raid, and sometimes other raids, it really is more about the player than the build. Obviously a fighter thf playing smart will do more overall damage than the barbarian if the barbarian in the group is playing poorly and finds himself dead 25% of the raid. I would play a build that makes you happy to play it, and not because someone says you must in order to be the best.

Another note, the rough estimate of 740 dps is a result of cleave-twitching, auto-cleaving, whatever folks call it, so that will not always be the dps of a barbarian in a raid. A barb would lose 2d3 + 5 hp per swing on average using that method, that kind of hp loss when tanking horoth for example can be dangerous and is very inconsiderate of the guy nice enough to heal you.

I agree with you, it is very hard to make a decision with a lot of game-changing upgrades being given to both classes. Hehe that is why I have Children ( barb), and Zeya (soon to be fighter H-elf).

[Asmodeus451]

Helf 12/8 Fighter/Barb with Rougue Dilly gets my vote

Fighter Haste Boost, Barb Damage Boost, Human Damage Boost, Puwer Surge, Rage, Frenzy I, Kensai II, and SA all together?

welcome to PAIN TOWN, Pop: YOU

[Choopak]

Me love you, me love you beaucoup Cold_Stele nice chart there... +1 rep bud!

THF H-O barb rule THF combat, but THF H-E still do decently... 18/2 is really close to full class, was not expecting this.. only a few point apart and those 2 feats can come in handy (toughness anyone???). ****! more options Speaking of which, you wouldn't have the calc for 18/2 reverse (18fig/2 barb)?
Hehe

I have a Blizt build, TWF like that Asmodeus w/o dam boost of course, but this build will be better TWF, not THF... will be a shame to put ESoS in bank!!!

[Zerkul]

Deadliest warrior? I know already the answer . I like people walking in the dark around it!

[Choopak]

Hey guys... i read on couple of post about cleave-twich??? *** is that?

[Alkindus]

Hey guys... i read on couple of post about cleave-twich??? *** is that?

The use of the Supreme cleave ability granted with FB II to interupt the attack chain after the second swing to order to boost the amt of swings/min. As demonstrated in the video of my barb (children) that you watched.

[Cetus]

A THF helf is still capable of out dpsing a THF horc fighter as long as you have your damage boost handy.

After a lot of thinking and number fiddling, I'm going to give helf a try and give up horc for a bit on my guy. Reason:

Say I choose 120 as my front number dmg on horc. A half elf version will do 13 points of dmg less per swing (6 PA 4 str 4 dmg = 13 dmg the helf doesn't have). so 120 -13 = 107 for helf, 25% of 107 = about 27 points of dmg when damaging boosting.

So, 27 + 107 = 134 dmg boosted front number on helf versys the 120 the horc was landing.

So a helf that normally does 13 points of dmg less than a horc does about 14 points of dmg more when boosted. MUCH higher burst dps potential.

Additionally, with the changes upcoming to hate tanks such as stalwarts and DoS I see myself main tanking less and utilizing the 3d6 backstab dmg from rogue dilettente more. If you count the backstab dmg from rogue dile, horcs aren't even competition.

Additionally, reaching the 13 dex to qualify for rogue dile also nets a better reflex save which is always nice.

Also, losing 4 str by going to helf is offset by the lack of a power attack line so= +1 extra net to hit.

Only real loss is the =4 str generates a -2 DC to tactics which I'm really not thrilled about.

However, this is a painfully close call for me to make.