Dwarven axes and Bastard swords are more damage than khopesh

[Blehboi]

So last night I thought what wepon REALLY does the most damage

what did I do ... I started running numbers to test which does the most damage in 100 hits I tood the damage dice and instead of rolling it 100 times I maxed it 100 times and insead of rolling a d20 to figure out whether or not it crits since it is 100 hits I took the chance to hit and that is how many times it crits in 100 hits and the numbers look like this

khopesh 8x90=720 norm dmg 8x3(10)=240 crit dmg +120 dmg if a burst effect is active 1080 net dmg

Dwarven axe 10x95=950 norm dmg 10x3(5)=150 crit dmg +60 dmg if burst effect is active 1160 net dmg

Bastard Sword 10x90=900 norm dmg 10x2(10)=200 crit dmg +60 dmg if burst effect is active 1160 net dmg

(NOTE)
all burst damage is based off of a d6

[Arctik]

Khops look the coolest!

[Tinco]

This is REALLY wrong math. Sorry. You can't just invent a way of computing this disregarding what the fathers of mathematics and their successors proved to be true.

[Blehboi]

This is REALLY wrong math. Sorry.

no it isn't It is based off of statistics what I am trying to say is that dwarven axes and Bastard swords are statisticly proven to do more damage if you like your khopesh so much I am not saing that you should change I am just saying I have the math to prove that the khopesh is not the most damaging exotic wepon

[SteeleTrueheart]

no it isn't It is based off of statistics what I am trying to say is that dwarven axes and Bastard swords are statisticly proven to do more damage

There is much more behind the math than just the base weapon damage. Trust us when we say all the mathematicians have shown khopesh is the superior weapon.

Still, none of my characters use khopesh but 1 uses bastardswords.

[9Crows]

math seems a bit off. khopesh has a max base weapon damage of 24,bastard has a max of 20 with the same threat range of 17-20 with imp crit

[Tinco]

I'm won't waste my time showing you the basics of statistical averages and simple algebra seeing how and what you write here. Besides, I don't even have one toon that uses either of that weapons. But nice try, probably someone will be kind enough taking the time explaining where exactly your train of math-thought went haywire.

[Anedac]

Long story short, this calculation is incorrect because you are only considering the weapons base damage, not any additional sources. Additional sources of damage increase the damage a khopesh does on criticals more than a bastard sword or dwarven axe. Modifiers such as seeker push the khopesh ahead even more.

Sadly, this calculation only works for a character with 10 strength and no other sources of damage increase.

[Blehboi]

Long story short, this calculation is incorrect because you are only considering the weapons base damage, not any additional sources. Additional sources of damage increase the damage a khopesh does on criticals more than a bastard sword or dwarven axe. Modifiers such as seeker push the khopesh ahead even more.

Sadly, this calculation only works for a character with 10 strength and no other sources of damage increase.

when I took my calculation in to consideration I was thinking of the VERY basic damgage and how much damage it would do if it had a single burst effect on it in 100 hits strength and any other additional damage modifiers and effects are up to the player what I am saying is if you took a normal non magical wepon and hit something 100 times at it's maxed damage on it's damage dice and then it has a crit chance of oh say 5% then it only critted 5 times in that 100 hits

[Aaxeyu]

when I took my calculation in to consideration I was thinking of the VERY basic damgage and how much damage it would do if it had a single burst effect on it in 100 hits strength and any other additional damage modifiers and effects are up to the player what I am saying is if you took a normal non magical wepon and hit something 100 times at it's maxed damage on it's damage dice and then it has a crit chance of oh say 5% then it only critted 5 times in that 100 hits

Additional damage modifiers does not apply to all weapons equally, so disregarding them completely makes the math meaningless.
Same goes for improved critical.

[~Cavalier9999]

Long story short, this calculation is incorrect because you are only considering the weapons base damage, not any additional sources. Additional sources of damage increase the damage a khopesh does on criticals more than a bastard sword or dwarven axe. Modifiers such as seeker push the khopesh ahead even more.

Sadly, this calculation only works for a character with 10 strength and no other sources of damage increase.

This.

Khopesh outpaces quickly as you gain levels.

[LordPiglet]

Long story short, this calculation is incorrect because you are only considering the weapons base damage, not any additional sources. Additional sources of damage increase the damage a khopesh does on criticals more than a bastard sword or dwarven axe. Modifiers such as seeker push the khopesh ahead even more.

Sadly, this calculation only works for a character with 10 strength and no other sources of damage increase.

Actually, since the D Axe has the same crit multiplier, then they would have the same effect, what hurts the DA is it's crit range of 20 (19-20 with imp crit).


Op:
Burst is a d6 x (crit multiplier -1) so a b sword is 1d6 for burst, but a Kopesh or D Axe is 2d6

[Aaxeyu]

That is a pointless calculation and meaningless conclusion.

[Thlargir]

So last night I thought what wepon REALLY does the most damage

Check out this thread for not only an explanation of why khopesh is currently better dps but also follow an OPs journey to enlightenment...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=180778

[bigolbear]

your maths proves conclusively that for a str 10 character with no buffs bastard sword and dwarf axe are better than the almighty khopesh.

now run them numbers again, with a typical low specced mele setup. say 26 str and no other bonuses.

and THEN run them again with a average end game fighter setup, say 44 str, +5 weapons, +10 damage from feats and enhancements, and +5 from PA.

You will see that the higher the damage bonus a character has the further ahead khopesh pulls. the exception is against 100% fort enemies. Thankfully the actualy percentage difference is not large enough for most people to care, and certainly not large enough to invalidate bastardswords and dwarf axes as viable alternatives (except for the powergamer cookie cutter types)

Infact a dwarf axe in the hands of a dwarf actualy stands up rather well to khopeshes in the end, due to 2 major factors.
1: the dwarf damage enhancement meaning that although a dwarf axe will be criting half as much as a pesh it will be critting for 6 points more.
2: the +2 to hit, which of course is NEVER taken into account in these types of discusions because every one always hits on a 2+ honest guv.

[Blehboi]

I was posting what I knew instead of telling me my calculations are wrong and proclaim me an idiot tell me the proper formulat to calculate this correctly

[k1ngp1n]

I was posting what I knew instead of telling me my calculations are wrong and proclaim me an idiot tell me the proper formulat to calculate this correctly

It may be helpful in the future to, instead of claiming (as per your thread title):

Dwarven axes and Bastard swords are more damage than khopesh

perhaps instead say something like, 'Would someone show me how to do the math?' as an opening line.

Just a poasting tip, take it or leave it. In this case though, it is a bit late to get defensive.

[Blehboi]

sighning off will be back later

[TheDearLeader]

So you're saying that outside of any practical, in-game situation, your calculations are correct?

I can give any toon in game an Inspire Courage on one of my Bards, and invalidate your findings. That's how shaky your "logic" here is.

You say X and Y are better than Z, without factoring in the rest of the alphabet.

Your topic should have been more like "MW D.A. and B.S. are more damage than Khopesh on a 10 Str toon right after being ressed from death."

Seriously dude - you thought after 5 years, you suddenly had some new math insight that grown adults, some with advanced degrees, could not have derived?

I was posting what I knew instead of telling me my calculations are wrong and proclaim me an idiot tell me the proper formulat to calculate this correctly

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=180778

Someone already did, bro. Click and read, and stop looking...just click and read.

[Tinco]

Oh well, I'll do it anyways. Here we go:

Assuming Improved Crit feat, that's a reasonable assumption for melee characters. Computing over 20 attacks (that's sufficient to simulate all possible outcomes of a d20), hitting on a 2, no fortification, all crits confirmed.

Khopesh vs. Bastard Sword, Str 10:

1d8 (4.5 average base damage), 17-20/x3 - 1 miss, 15 hits, 4 crits =
15*4.5 + 4*3*4.5 = 67.5 + 54 = 121.5

1d10 (5.5 average base damage), 17-20/x2 - 1 miss, 15 hits, 4 crits =
15*5.5 + 4*2*5.5 = 82.5 + 44 = 126.5

Seems like at least your conclusion is correct, but let's go a bit further:

From the Data above we can deduct that a Khopesh has a critical modifier of 1.35 (27 'hits' in 20 strikes), the bastard sword a modifier of 1.15 (23 'hits' in 20 strikes). The question now is: How much bonus damage do you need that the Khopesh does more damage (it obviously scales better)? A simple equation solves that for this particular scenario:

(5.5+x)*1.15 < (4.5+x)*1.35
6.325 + 1.15x < 6.075 + 1.35x
0.25 < 0.2x
x > 1.25

So and now just think how hard it is to get a damage bonus higher than 1.25

[EDIT]Point is and the reason why this annoyed me so much, check your facts, check your assumptions and check the context before making claims like this. You made some basic math errors with the number of critical occurrences and that you took the maximum damage instead of the average damage but the worst thing is that you did it disregarding damage bonuses because that's something you must understand (that different crit profiles scale differently) before theory crafting with weapons.