Assassin choice? Or stay Mechanic?

[rayworks]

OK, this is less about the build's stats and more about my direction.

1. Human Rogue - about to make 12th lvl
2. Currently Mechanic I, but I have TWF, OTWF, and ITWF as well.
3. Torn on whether to stay Mech or go Assassin at 12th

Basically, I went Mech at 6th because at the time it seemed like a good call for a low lvl rogue. As I approach 12th I'm thinking of switching to Assassin because I find that pew pew - even with sneak damage - just doesn't drop mobs fast enough.

So I'm thinking of switching. So I have two questions that are somewhat at odds with each other.

1. If I switch I would respec a feat to get either Khopesh or Picks. Which is "better"? Or do I burn a feat and take both?
2. If I stay Mech, does the pew pew get better for a rogue?

Please note two things in your replies; 1) I spelled Rogue correctly, and 2) I'm not really thinking end-game epic content right now.

[Rodasch]

Picks are a suboptimal choice if you're going to spend a feat for a non-rogue weapon.

Ideally you should go with rapiers and save the feat for something like power attack, but if you're set on spending a feat on a weapon proficiency, Khopesh is the one you want, provided you have the strength to support it.

If you are rockin' a finesse build, then maybe light picks, but even those are sub-par compared with rapiers, so you'd be kind of wasting that feat too.

[JasonJi72]

[QUOTE=rayworks;4042112]
So I'm thinking of switching. So I have two questions that are somewhat at odds with each other.

1. If I switch I would respec a feat to get either Khopesh or Picks. Which is "better"? Or do I burn a feat and take both?
2. If I stay Mech, does the pew pew get better for a rogue?

QUOTE]

1. I always use either Kopeshes or a staff for accrobat on my rogues. Picks are also good, but not as good as they used to be. Save your feat.

2. I usually stay with mech until I can get assassin III, but that is a personal choice. I also never pew pew on a rogue, but some people do.

Just respec your enhancements and try it out. I find the iron dogs useful when soloing since they help me get sneak attacks in.

[Calebro]

Don't think about switching from Mech.
Switch from Mech.

As for the weapons, many people on these forums will tell you to spend a feat and get khopesh. I personally don't subscribe to this philosophy. You're already proficient with rapiers, which are tied with scimitars for the second most effective one handed weapons in the game. Khopeshes are only slightly better for overall DPS, and they're worse for crit effects such as Radiance, which you will probably want to craft.
Toughness, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC: <whatever you choose>, Power Attack
That leaves one feat open, and you've already filled it with OTWF.
Stick with rapiers and save yourself from having to swap another feat.

[Bodic]

a few points.

1. Assassinate is where its at.
2. If this is your first rogue Rapier is good. Going from range to melee I assume your stats lean towards Dex rather than Str. You will want weapons finesse if so and Khopesh is not finesse its Str only.

my standard 7 Dex assassin are Toughness TWFx3 IC:P Weapon Finesse and PA(13 base str req)/ OTWF.

[rayworks]

Thanks for the quick responses. If I went with Rapiers am I better off not increasing STR as I lvl but take INT for the Assassin DC instead? Or do I increase INT with items and such?

[Kmnh]

You should have a high enough UMD to use master's touch scrolls by this level. That means that you can use any pair of martial weapon with proficiency. Buy the scrolls at the portable hole, or from a friendly wizard.


Take Improved Critical Slashing at level 12 (or swap it in with Fred). Go with a pair of Kukris for now and switch to Khopeshes when you get greensteel.

No one should ever build a one-handed GS DPS weapon that's not a Khopesh. They all cost the same, go with the best.

[Calebro]

Thanks for the quick responses. If I went with Rapiers am I better off not increasing STR as I lvl but take INT for the Assassin DC instead? Or do I increase INT with items and such?

Immediate response would be to always raise Str.
The more detailed response would require you to tell us what you started with in Str/Dex/Int and what you've raised so far.

[Calebro]

No one should ever build a one-handed GS DPS weapon that's not a Khopesh. They all cost the same, go with the best.

They do not all cost the same, as Khopesh costs a feat.
And Khopesh is only the *best* in certain cases. A rogue, for example, who plans on crafting a Rad2, is foolish if he crafts that on a weapon with a smaller crit range IMO.
The "so called" extra DPS from a Khopesh, in this case, is actually less because the rapier will start you sneak attacking 10% faster.

[JasonJi72]

I like rapiers, but I usually stay away from them since they are the most expensive weapons to buy at auction. I always go with strength on my rogues so I am at least somewhat useful against enemies immune to SA.

High Intel is very good to have, just don't sacrifice your other stats. 16 or 18 should be good enough.

You can also add 2 monk or fighter levels for the extra feats.

[Kmnh]

They do not all cost the same, as Khopesh costs a feat.
And Khopesh is only the *best* in certain cases. A rogue, for example, who plans on crafting a Rad2, is foolish if he crafts that on a weapon with a smaller crit range IMO.
The "so called" extra DPS from a Khopesh, in this case, is actually less because the rapier will start you sneak attacking 10% faster.

I don't have the Khopesh feat. The past life feat is better and I have enough to-hit as is.

I don't have a radII either, they don't do anything of use and they **** off the people doing crowd control. But yes, if you are building a radII a kukri is a better plan.



Think of the Khopesh as another tier of the Power Attack feat, you are trading -4 to hit for +4 to damage. In most situation it's worth it, when it's not you turn power attack off.

[Bufo_Alvarius]

I don't have the Khopesh feat. The past life feat is better and I have enough to-hit as is.

I don't have a radII either, they don't do anything of use and they **** off the people doing crowd control. But yes, if you are building a radII a kukri is a better plan.



Think of the Khopesh as another tier of the Power Attack feat, you are trading -4 to hit for +4 to damage. In most situation it's worth it, when it's not you turn power attack off.

1. Rad2 are amazing. It boggles the mind that you would think "they dont do anything of use".

2. When you turn PA off a rapier spec with smallblade is better dps.

I agree with Calebro OP. If you already have otwf rapier seems like a no brainer. If a feat swap is no big deal to you then go ahead with khopesh.

Keep in mind that rapier has been given free boss beaters and more epic options as of a couple patches ago, if ease of weapon aquisition is a concern to you.

[Kmnh]

1. Rad2 are amazing. It boggles the mind that you would think "they dont do anything of use".

2. When you turn PA off a rapier spec with smallblade is better dps.

I agree with Calebro OP. If you already have otwf rapier seems like a no brainer. If a feat swap is no big deal to you then go ahead with khopesh.

Keep in mind that rapier has been given free boss beaters and more epic options as of a couple patches ago, if ease of weapon aquisition is a concern to you.

1: I have an epic sirroco and I don't use it because the blindness effect is annoying. It makes the mobs run out of the web / disco ball / trip / stun / etc. That might not be an issue outside of epics, as you will kill anything as soon as blindness hits.

2: You can use a dp clickie, an imrpoved destruction weapon a dex yugo pot and the past life clikie before turning off PA. There are very few mobs were you need to go that far, and you only really turn off PA if you are badly undergeared. A Halfling starts with 4 more points of to-hit than me

3: Slashing is the better option. Go with a pair of scimitars or Kukris, use a master's touch scroll for proficiency. You get access to Khopeshes without sacrificing anything.

[Grace_ana]

The blindness effect is what rules for rogues though. Blindness=sneak attack, so what would have taken me several hits to bring down now takes one or two. Hardly time for them to go running around, and as always, the faster you kill it means the less you die. To each his own, I suppose, but for someone to say blindness is of no use to rogues is a bit baffling.

[voodoogroves]

I've got a capped assassin.

I hate the blind-mobs moving. I strongly suspect they get auto-hasted too, and the AI can read my mind and moves them right when I'm about to reach them again.

I honestly am considering making earthgrab khopeshes for the future because I'm that annoyed lately with the blind-mob movement, esp. in epics.



Otherwise, blindness rocks.

[SableShadow]

I honestly am considering making earthgrab khopeshes for the future because I'm that annoyed lately with the blind-mob movement, esp. in epics.

Check out some of the new l00tz coming next mod ...

[sheepface]

Thief acrobat.

[FrozenNova]

He's a human, he doesn't need to pick between otwf, power attack, and khopesh.
Eight feats.

Toughness
Power attack
Improved crit
Khopesh
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
OTWF.

Or am I missing something?
That's practically an ideal choice for an assassin anyway, and come U11 humans are a fine choice for combined haste and damage boost. Halflings will always be nice due to reflex bonuses and added sneak damage - but the +2 attack from otwf is very tempting for a newbie rogue, and all those AP are fairly expensive especially with the new scroll lines. You're doing fine, OP.
..As long as you didn't do something like 10 base strength, anyway.

[Kinerd]

They do not all cost the same, as Khopesh costs a feat.
And Khopesh is only the *best* in certain cases. A rogue, for example, who plans on crafting a Rad2, is foolish if he crafts that on a weapon with a smaller crit range IMO.
The "so called" extra DPS from a Khopesh, in this case, is actually less because the rapier will start you sneak attacking 10% faster.

I think you overstate the worth of radiance relative to the khopesh's critical profile, because unless you're soloing it's already pretty easy to generate sneak attacks. Your 10% faster should be multiplied by how often you actually have aggro anyway. 30% of the time? 10%? Surely you agree a khopesh is more than a 1% increase in DPS over a rapier.

[Astars]

There are other PREs than assasin for rogues?
Thats a myth! At least i have never seen any