Tomeless TWF?

[kingarthas87]

just got 10rng/10what ever and you dont even hae to put a single point into dex for twf. tempest pre sucks so dont even bother just a waste of 3feat

[Zachski]

just got 10rng/10what ever and you dont even hae to put a single point into dex for twf. tempest pre sucks so dont even bother just a waste of 3feat

1. Even splits suck
2. The first and second tier of Tempest both rock. It's the sucky Tempest III and the lack of a melee capstone that make taking Ranger past level 12 not worth it.

[karl_k0ch]

Some thoughts on this topic.

Most builds are aimed to be somewhat optimal. This means: If you have access to +2 tomes, don't bother with 16 Dex. Anyway, most builds can easily modified to start with 16 Dex, requiring only a +1 tome. You might lose a skill, a con, or a str bracket, which will hamper the build a bit, but it won't break it when you shift 2 build points from here to there.

Drow and Halfling are decent races. On such a race, it's ususally not a problem at all to start with 16 Dex. Also, on the not-so-popular (because less damaging) finesse builds, you automatically qualify for TWF.*

Tomeless TWFs are called Rangers, which ties to the following post:

just got 10rng/10what ever and you dont even hae to put a single point into dex for twf. tempest pre sucks so dont even bother just a waste of 3feat

This is nonsense.

The ranger levels which grant the TWF feats are 2, 6 and 11. Builds with 11 or even 12 ranger levels have access to full TWF and require less Dex. I recommend taking the Tempest PrE for its additional Off-hand damage. 13 Dex is a moderate investment which is achievable without any tomes, usually. Using a +1 tome is convenience; using a +2 tome would delay the PrE too much, as pointed out above.

But also builds with only 6 Ranger level can make you go a long way, especially if combined with rogue. Since 6 Ran grants ITWF, the only feat which actually requires a Dex of 17 is GTWF, which is accessible (depending on the BAB progression) at level 12 or 15. By that level, a tome of the desired size (+1 or +2) should be affordable, even on a first toon.


*Sidenote: In my opinion, going Finesse is a last resort if you want to make a pure rogue, have no tomes, and only 28 build points. This is one of the few reasons where I can see that a Halfling Finesse build makes sense.