Have you heard Us?

[walkingwolfmike]

To the Devs,
Have you heard how the vast majority of the player base has reacted to your proposed Wing Clipping? Has it gotten through that this is something that has raised much concern with how the game is designed and run?

Or, as some suspect, have you already decided to pursue you current course of action?

[The_Brave2]

To the Devs,
Have you heard how the vast majority of the player base has reacted to your proposed Wing Clipping? Has it gotten through that this is something that has raised much concern with how the game is designed and run?

Or, as some suspect, have you already decided to pursue you current course of action?

He flew too close to the sun and the wax on his wings melted
He flew too close to the ocean and his feathers were too heavy to fly.

Its all about balance... Wings need to be clipped, and if you are referencing the 5 charges and 15sec recharge time, I fully support it, and I play 2 FVS toons.

[flaggson]

He flew too close to the sun and the wax on his wings melted
He flew too close to the ocean and his feathers were too heavy to fly.

Its all about balance... Wings need to be clipped, and if you are referencing the 5 charges and 15sec recharge time, I fully support it, and I play 2 FVS toons.

this

There needed to be a re balance of this ability. Comes with the territory.

[English_Warrior]

He flew too close to the sun and the wax on his wings melted
He flew too close to the ocean and his feathers were too heavy to fly.

Its all about balance... Wings need to be clipped, and if you are referencing the 5 charges and 15sec recharge time, I fully support it, and I play 2 FVS toons.

I agree.... I haven't seen or heard too much complaining about it at all....so I'm not sure that "the vast majority" are against this change....my FVS isn't.

[teamghost]

I agree.... I haven't seen or heard too much complaining about it at all....so I'm not sure that "the vast majority" are against this change....my FVS isn't.

/against (member of vast majority)

[teh_meh]

Its all about balance... Wings need to be clipped, and if you are referencing the 5 charges and 15sec recharge time, I fully support it, and I play 2 FVS toons.

Traitor.

Clipping wings is a horrible idea. Next time test your raid before it's on the verge of release and you've promised Q4 earnings to shareholders and the only way to deliver those earning in time is to change the cooldown timer with a simple code change instead of properly re-developing the raid to account for ALL classes.

2 cents

[The_Brave2]

Traitor.

Clipping wings is a horrible idea. Next time test your raid before it's on the verge of release and you've promised Q4 earnings to shareholders and the only way to deliver those earning in time is to change the cooldown timer with a simple code change instead of properly re-developing the raid to account for ALL classes.

2 cents

the problem isnt one raid, wings have been an over powered easy button for a long time now for all content. A change has been needed for awhile, personally im glad that they are not being nerfed further.

[mute_mayhem]

Oh I'm sure they've heard us.

The real question is: Do they care?

Answer: Nope.

[protokon]

Traitor.

Clipping wings is a horrible idea. Next time test your raid before it's on the verge of release and you've promised Q4 earnings to shareholders and the only way to deliver those earning in time is to change the cooldown timer with a simple code change instead of properly re-developing the raid to account for ALL classes.

2 cents

This.

hmm. let's come up with a raid boss that gives massive hp debuffs, massive AoE damage, and massive single-target damage. What? our players are trying to kite the sucker instead of stand in front of him? wow, we didn't expect that . Now let's fix the raid by changing the class mechanics so they can't kite period instead of fixing the root of the problem.

A simple chained effect or some kind of debuff from raid bosses that prevents abundant step / leap of faith will easily fix the kiting of raid bosses without nerfing the class for the rest of the game. It's the only class I can get away with red alerting instances and keep moving, and personally I'd rather it stay that way - either that or get rid of dungeon alert. that might be a fair compromise.

[Gkar]

The 5 uses isn't a bad idea, in fact I'd suggest that for the monks as well as the current ki cost is too high compared to the cost for the FvS/ASav.

The cooldown isn't needed. If you had a 0 second cooldown and could just keep spamming the 5 uses would be gone in under a minute, not enough to kite you way through any significant battle.

[voodoogroves]

the problem isnt one raid, wings have been an over powered easy button for a long time now for all content. A change has been needed for awhile, personally im glad that they are not being nerfed further.

Really? Over powered easy button? For a long time, for all content?

Examples?

[The_Brave2]

Really? Over powered easy button? For a long time, for all content?

Examples?

Wings can be used to kite any boss currently ingame. The most common example being Sulu, stopping the chained effect.

But it goes beyond bosses, while leveling wings increase your zerg speed though quests significantly while tossing blade barrier behind you. This lets you keep moving fast during a red alert, in combination with bladebarrier and DP it becomes a easy button for kiting bosses. It gives FVS another advantage over Cleric, which is already extremely unbalanced. Sure you can argue that monk and air spec sorc has 'wings' but they are highly different and not as usefull for the difference in class. Monk is limited by ki, sorc is limited by a longer cool down, and neither of these classes has a DoT along with a standing AOE that will do damage for kiting that is as effective as Divine Punishment.

[Rumbaar]

Remember when they changed 1d6 -> 1-6 and dilution D&D 3rd Edition Dogma? You remember the 500+ post thread on it and the uproar?

If you wait long enough, the community no longer cares. That is the sad fact, Turbine just has to continue on and not say a word.

[sirgog]

To the Devs,
Have you heard how the vast majority of the player base has reacted to your proposed Wing Clipping? Has it gotten through that this is something that has raised much concern with how the game is designed and run?

Or, as some suspect, have you already decided to pursue you current course of action?

Have you paid attention to the large numbers of people asking for a challenge in-game?

Designing content that is challenging to people with the wings easy button isn't possible, unless they make that content impossible for people without godmode.

[Rumbaar]

Have you paid attention to the large numbers of people asking for a challenge in-game?

Designing content that is challenging to people with the wings easy button isn't possible, unless they make that content impossible for people without godmode.

lol @ godmode. I've been missing something then, my FvS got wings and haven't noticed my godmode. I guess it's in the options somewhere.

[teh_meh]

Designing content that is challenging to people with the wings easy button isn't possible, unless they make that content impossible for people without godmode.

WINGS ARE FUN (I repeat) WINGS ARE FUN

WE DON'T CARE IF WE LOSE THEM FOR A RAID.

WE DON'T NEED GOD MODE TO COMPLETE A RAID.

WE DON'T WANT A GLOBAL CHANGE TO ALL FAVORED SOULS, EVERYWHERE, WITHIN ALL CONTENT, FOREVER...JUST TO ACCOMMODATE THE INTENDED CHALLENGE RATING OF 5 STUPID RAIDS

(sorry for yelling but GDI why are people missing the point???)

[kitsune_ko]

Remember when they changed 1d6 -> 1-6 and dilution D&D 3rd Edition Dogma? You remember the 500+ post thread on it and the uproar?

If you wait long enough, the community no longer cares. That is the sad fact, Turbine just has to continue on and not say a word.

Unlike the die changes though, this is a considerable change to a class one can only aquire though paying real money for it. Either though being VIP; as a premium purchase or inderectly as a result of favor though adventure packs boughten.

I hated the die changes, I still hate them and I always will hate them. But I didn't pay them for it either so its a little less important in the grand scale of DDO to me then an unnecessary and knee-jerk Dev reaction nerf to a class I bought for real USD because their newest raid design has flaws.

But then reaching for the nerf-bat is the easiest solution to the problem. Easier and quicker then fixing the flaws I guess?

And this is a topic of hot debate; it just happens to be in the Lamannia section of the forums, because that is where they happened to make their nerf announcement.

[moops]

( since this is a dbl post, my response from the lama boards for those who can't access it)

At least you did not pay 10mil plat for each of your wings, but by your join date you were not around when the nerfed WoP.

I don't think its a huge deal, and I do think that we will find a way to make the change work in our favor.

People were saying that they were going to get rid of their FVS because of the change--as if that is the only value of the FVS--but that sentiment right there should be a red flag that Leap of Faith is a tad overpowered. By it's name, it should be something to be used when one is backed into a corner, if kept like it is they should change the name to Leaping Lords or something.

[sirgog]

WINGS ARE FUN (I repeat) WINGS ARE FUN

WE DON'T CARE IF WE LOSE THEM FOR A RAID.

WE DON'T NEED GOD MODE TO COMPLETE A RAID.

WE DON'T WANT A GLOBAL CHANGE TO ALL FAVORED SOULS, EVERYWHERE, WITHIN ALL CONTENT, FOREVER...JUST TO ACCOMMODATE THE INTENDED CHALLENGE RATING OF 5 STUPID RAIDS

(sorry for yelling but GDI why are people missing the point???)

Wings are even more busted in 6-player content where Dungeon Alert comes up.

6 player Elite Sins of Attrition is much, much easier to beat if the FvS solos it while everyone else hides in Salglia's room. All because of wings.

[kitsune_ko]

And I imagine most of those threatening to drop their FvS are just like me; we play FvS for the Leap of faith; not becasue of its awe-inspiring, game-breaking uberness that allows FvS to be the dominant class in DDO, but because its a convenient perk. Thats what we paid for and use FvS for.

Natural elemental resistance for FvS became pointless once anyone could roll off Korthos and pop onto an airship and grab your self a /30 resist for everything.

And it sure is not for the FvS PREs. If only you knew how many times in PUGs I get asked "Where's your healing Aura" ... "Can you give me SP's" ... Sigh.


Leap of faith:

Its gets us from the airship, to the bank, to the AH, back to the airship quickly.

It gets us across the wilderness maps to where we are going quickly.

it lets us catch up with a party who just cannot possibly wait for us to finish shrining before moving on.

it lets us pop through 3 rooms quickly to go back and heal that switch puller/lost party member/ect. that split off from the rest of the group and managed somehow to pull aggro on themselves.

It gets us poor gimpy low HP, Low AC Healer-specced FvS out of trouble and safely behind that nice big THF Horc.

It lets us chase down party/raid members that scatter like ball bearings dropped on a hardwood floor and still be able to heal them.


By far the vast majority of Leap faith use is exactly as it is intended. a VERY few FvS players have the gear, past lives, proper build and enhancements, and with the excellent reflexes required for kiting skills to be able to solo epic content.

Every Palemaster Warforged can do this exact same thing, but while using 1/100 of the resources or skills needed, but it's FvS who have their neck on the chopping block for being too overpowered. And this is for no other reason then it was a FvS heavy party that the Dev team spectated on Lamannia exposing the design flaws in the new raid pack.

Leap of Faith has been in DDO for two years, and neither players or the Dev team said a single word about it, but a few hours after they watched FvS in the new raid, suddenly its declared by the Devs as overpowered and gamebreaking.

Something is indeed broken, and its not Leap of Faith. Its just easier for the Dev team to blame and nerf the players then to fix the problems with the raid and DoTs.

Thats what the complaints are about; not "dont touch my easy button" but saying "Put away the nerf-bat, and fix the real problem".