Battle Arcane, 12wiz/6ranger/2rogue

[jacob6]

So I heard someone suggest a multiclass split along these lines but couldn't find any builds besides the 3 rogue/6 ranger/11 wiz, which doesn't include palemaster. I did the best I could to maximize the skills I wanted, having hide/move silently maxed along with wraithform just seemed kinda neat to me. The biggest problem I see here is concentration hasn't been leveled, and I'm not sure where I should put in quicken - the concept seems really tight for feat selection. It might be a better idea to simply go 3/6/11 instead but I'd really like to keep palemaster if possible. Any build advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger \ 12 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 300
Spell Points: 885 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 15
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    22
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         16                    20
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     9
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         5                     8
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device        7                    28
Haggle                2                     2
Heal                 -2                    -2
Hide                  6                    26
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  6                    10
Listen               -2                    -2
Move Silently         6                    26
Open Lock             6                     7
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                     5
Search                7                    28
Spot                 -2                    -2
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble                6                     7
Use Magic Device      2                    21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Wizard)


Level 5 (Wizard)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness


Level 16 (Wizard)


Level 17 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Rogue)

[MsEricka]

As I stated in another thread, a build like this is probably fine for leveling but end game you would be rejected from a lot of groups.

Your dps will be lacking, your spell damage will be lacking, you'll have no spell pen, low dc's and a huge lack of spell points for doing anything like dots.

[Xyfiel]

As I stated in another thread, a build like this is probably fine for leveling but end game you would be rejected from a lot of groups.

Your dps will be lacking, your spell damage will be lacking, you'll have no spell pen, low dc's and a huge lack of spell points for doing anything like dots.

I made a battlemage who can out dps melee in most situations, until his spell points run out, aka 3-4 minutes. I am going to go ahead and say in advance you don't believe it. It can be done though. Your right about the rejections...

[Phidius]

I don't know if you're refering to Gemstone when you mention the 11/6/3, but if you were, I'm considering LRing him into a 12/6/2. The changes to intimidate a while back reduced the value of the skill for me, so dropping Intimidate means I no longer need the 3rd rogue level or the starting Int of 16.

Here's the plan I'm currently considering - the extra build points from dropping Int allow me to make use of my +3 Str and +3 Con tomes

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Gemstone Final
Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger \ 12 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 210
Spell Points: 658 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 15
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    23
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     7
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         5                    24
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device        6                    23
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                 -2                    -2
Hide                  6                     7
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  4                     6
Listen               -2                    -2
Move Silently         6                     7
Open Lock             6                     7
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    26
Spot                  2                    18
Swim                  7                     9
Tumble                3                     4
Use Magic Device      2                    21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Search (+8)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+6)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+7)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)


Level 14 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+3)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Keeping Int at 16 to fit in Hide/Move Silently sounds pretty good though... I may reconsider that. If you plan on sneaking, though, you need to get your Spot up, or you're not going to get much use from Spot. Do you mind posting your skills per level? Maybe there's a way to get more gain from those skill points.

I'd also recommend Concentration over Hide/Move Silently. You'll use it far more.

If you go PaleMaster, keep in mind the following:

1. You can't Reconstruct in form
2. Your Death Aura's healing is based on your caster level - I don't know if you'll be able to get enough out of it, even with Boon of Undeath
3. Mobs love to spam light spells
4. Going 12/6/2 means you're missing out on a majority of the benefit of PaleMaster - you're not going to even get FoD/Wail, let alone have a prayer of landing it.

Lastly, they are correct about being declined from many groups. Frankly, I don't know how people can stand being accepted by them

Put up your own LFMs, and you'll find yourself (in general) surrounded by people who are more fun to play with.

I made a battlemage who can out dps melee in most situations, until his spell points run out, aka 3-4 minutes. I am going to go ahead and say in advance you don't believe it. It can be done though. Your right about the rejections...

I believe you

[jacob6]

Thank you for your replies!

MsEricka's comments got me to thinking that in may be in the best interest of a party to respec the enhancements and perhaps take the AM line for an extra 250~ sp, at least giving some extra sp for damage over time spells. The benefits of a 12 wizard PM are probably more suited to solo play than large group play.. That being said I'm not terribly worried about being accepted to groups for the majority of my play time as I tend to solo a fair amount due to limited dungeon pack selections at higher levels.

Yes Phidius, Gemstone was one of characters I was refering to and I was hoping to see your build plan for a 12/6/2 split! I believe it would be possible to work in spot and concentration at the expense of UMD and possibly some hide which I don't think needs to be maxed to be usable anyway. This was my original skill point distribution:


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 9
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 5 7
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device 7 27
Haggle 2 2
Heal -2 -2
Hide 6 26
Intimidate -2 -2
Jump 6 10
Listen -2 -2
Move Silently 6 26
Open Lock 6 7
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 4
Search 7 27
Spot -2 -2
Swim 2 6
Tumble 6 7
Use Magic Device 2 21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 4 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Move Silently (+9)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+8)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2.5)


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)


Level 16 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+5)
Skill: Search (+3)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)

I was hoping that with melee and spell damage that a character like this could offer a decent party contribution in terms of dps, while it doesn't look like it could rival the damage of pure casters I would imagine that it could offer at least a decent party contribution. Quite frankly though, I don't have the knowledge of end game play to make a definitive conclusion on that but I don't mind sinking some time and resources to find out.

I guess the benefits of PMII really only come down to wraith form bonuses and a weakened Death Aura and dropping the feats would allow me to take feats to stengthen the melee portion of the build, which in turn would probably make it a better party oriented toon. Working in concentration and spot definetly sounds like a good plan especially for solo play and I'll definetly be reworking this all on the planner, thanks again for the input!

[Phidius]

Well, there's a few places where you are spending skill points unecessarily. For example, you're spending rogue skill points at 20 for Search, Move Silently, and Hide that you could have done in your Ranger levels.

One other thing to think about - you can use your 2nd ranger spell for Camouflage, an extra 10 points that stacks with items. You can leave your Hide 10 ranks lower than Move Silently.

I like Rogue levels for the Traps, Locks, and UMD, but you should also consider 2 Monk instead of 2 Rogue. It would be easier to fit in the Mental Toughness and Spell Focus: Evocation for Archmage.

...
I was hoping that with melee and spell damage that a character like this could offer a decent party contribution in terms of dps, while it doesn't look like it could rival the damage of pure casters I would imagine that it could offer at least a decent party contribution. Quite frankly though, I don't have the knowledge of end game play to make a definitive conclusion on that but I don't mind sinking some time and resources to find out.
...

It depends on what kind of partys you join. If you are in a large guild that has specific roles defined and assigned to trustworthy individuals, then I agree that this kind of build is sub-standard at best.

If you're like me, however, and run in a lot of unknown PUGs, or put up BYOH groups, then this kind of build really shines.

Don't fall for the misconception that a good solo build has no place in a party... it all depends on the party. There are many parties that I would be too scared to join on any other build