Artificer and Veteran Status

[jjflanigan]

*edit*

[masterzzan]

i think im missing something here. in lemania artificers cost 1 tp in ddo shop .
i never seen anything saying VIP would need to pay for them when they come live.( in fact i seem to recall seeing the adds for artificers and house C saying free for vip.)
where did they mention it would be a class that even VIP have to buy (like fVS) ?. link if u got it.

[ahpook]

...

I'm just saying it is a dangerous precedent to let slip through. If they can just start changing the conditions of things you have purchased in the past to make them less useful, it can get really dangerous really quickly.

To be clear, I agree with this sentment. But some of the drama around this has been over the top for what amounts to a couple months delay on this feature for a new class. (Of course, I am probably biased because I think veteran status is a flawed implementation. )

[Zaodon]

Artificers will be required to be played from level 1 when Update 11 is released to the live servers, just as they work on Lamannia right now. As to when this will change, the best answer I can give right now is that they will be available to use Veteran Status, Lesser, and Greater + Hearts of Wood on at a later date.

Dear mommy-wanna-be,
please stop trying to tell us how to play your game. Lets us play it the way we want to. If we want to start at level 1, we will. If we EARNED veteran status and want to start at level 4, then we are entitled to do so. We don't want you to tell us the "right" way to play your game. We pay you to play it our way, not your way.

kthxIalreadyhaveamommyIdontneedanotherone.

[Cetus]

Well, if I can't access the artificer in game in U11, then my completionist feat should not be deactivated in game.

Who else thinks its fair to be penalized with no recourse other than pulling out your wallet?

I call bull **** turbine.

[Uska]

Even though I had thought I didnt want to play STOR they keep making it look better and better the more I hear about update 11 and artificers

[Uska]

i think im missing something here. in lemania artificers cost 1 tp in ddo shop .
i never seen anything saying VIP would need to pay for them when they come live.( in fact i seem to recall seeing the adds for artificers and house C saying free for vip.)
where did they mention it would be a class that even VIP have to buy (like fVS) ?. link if u got it.

dont have a link but I think its somewhere in this thread but a dev said yes VIP's will have to buy it with TP's or wait for mod 12 to be able to earn the canith favor to get them for free and there was never an add saying artificers were free to VIP's we just assumed they would be but yeah VIP's will get house C for free unless they decide to change the rules yet again Turbine the darth vader of mmo's

[Uska]

Are you people serious?

This is an amazing attitude for something so minor (and it isn't just you)...How long does it usually take you to reach level 4 on a character? Do you simply hate Korthos that much or is it actually a significant amount of time? For most "veteran" players, you are talking about less than an hours worth of time.

People on this planet REALLY need to get thier sense of entitlement put back in check and start caring about stuff that actually matters.

it isnt a sense of entitlement its something we paid for and yeah it doesnt take long to level to 4th but its the princple of the thing

[jjflanigan]

*edit*

[kinar]

It's not a coding/development issue, it was a coding/development decision.

It is absolutely both. The issue is that the development wasn't done in time to have all favor available. The decision was to go ahead and release it as is instead of making you wait another 3 months for Artificer...

It never said "all current classes" -- it had no caveat that future classes would be excluded. It's perfectly rational to have assumed it would apply to all classes, period.

As I pointed out in my post, it is also perfectly rational to have assumed it wouldn't apply to future classes, period. This makes it simply an argument about implementation and has nothing to do with being lied to or swindled about a previous purchase.

Yes -- two issues cropping up very close to each other that both center around Turbine changing the conditions of something they sold to players is a trend (and a very scary trend)

two issues in a single update (out of 20) does not a trend make. An anomoly in a single datapoint out of 20 is most accurately classified as noise...not a trend.

[kinar]

*nod* But it's really not about the delay or the cost. It's about having something previously purchased changed on a "whim".

It wasn't changed. Your original assumption about it was simply wrong. Deal with it.

[jjflanigan]

*edit*

[Cyr]

As I pointed out in my post, it is also perfectly rational to have assumed it wouldn't apply to future classes, period. This makes it simply an argument about implementation and has nothing to do with being lied to or swindled about a previous purchase.

And people who purchased warforged could randomly have new adventure packs that do not allow warforged into them by the same flawed logic.

I would not call the assumption that store bought items would not work with new content rational. In fact, I would call it irrational.

Some more fun examples of really insane things that could be poorly explaned using the same arguments (note none of these are not and probably never will be in game)...

• Artificers can not use the shared bank. Why, because no one specifically said new classes could!
• Characters who have bought bank expansion slots when TRing as artificers lose those slots because no one said that artificers would function with those bank slots.
• The new adventure pack, Lords of Chaos takes place on a plane of absolute chaos. As such any character of lawful alignment (including by requirement monks and paladins) are instantly killed. Hey no one said that when you bought monks that they would work with all the content...
• The new adventure pack following up on the fashion show theme of a previous pack has a new dungeon in it called Bad Hair Day. In this dungeon the mad hair dresser can over write your current hair color as part of his insane plan to take over the Stormreach. Have no fear turbine hair dye reversal kits are available in the DDO store...

[Entelech]

They want "The first level 20 Artificer to be leveled from scratch."

Why?

Will a vet status artificer somehow break their servers if it is first to 20?

What does it possibly matter? Is it worth irritating customers who paid for veteran status in real money? Is it worth leaving obviously broken functionality on the live servers so new players see it as incompetent coding?

The completionists are already irritated that they'll be stripped of their hard-won status until they pull out their wallets...and while I'm willing to pay for Artificer, if I never see Jeets Shimis again, it'll be too soon.

This "first Artificer to 20" thing is either not the real reason (i.e. Turbine is lying to us), a sign that IQ's have dropped sharply in Boston, or indicative of the "you will play the game the way WE SAY YOU WILL" mentality that Sony Online Entertainment called "The Vision(TM)."

None of those three options are appealing.

[kinar]

Wow...

It was changed, just because you cannot understand how it's being changed and why it is important doesn't magically make it not an issue.

If it doesn't matter to you and you have no real stake in the issue...just leave the thread alone and let the people who actually care about the issue discuss it.

There are SO many different ways (that have been repeated ad nauseum now) they could have done this that would not have violated the agreement made with customers that it's silly to say they didn't have a choice and were forced to do it this way due to a development / coding issue.

You make a claim that I cannot see your side while making the exact same folley...pot, kettle, black. Maybe you need to just take a step back, notice that my argument is also valid. Sometimes you just got to learn from a situation instead of fighting it. Of course it is always much easier to fight on the internet.

Btw, I never said "they were forced" to do anything. I simply claimed that (for the other issue) it was a development issue that guided thier choice. Do you honestly believe that Turbine would have designed thier release this way and are not just reacting to a bad situation in the best way possible? Before you answer, make sure you notice that I didn't say "The best way possible for you" and I didn't say "The best way possible for them".

[kinar]

And people who purchased warforged could randomly have new adventure packs that do not allow warforged into them by the same flawed logic.

I would not call the assumption that store bought items would not work with new content rational. In fact, I would call it irrational.

Some more fun examples of really insane things that could be poorly explaned using the same arguments (note none of these are not and probably never will be in game)...

• Artificers can not use the shared bank. Why, because no one specifically said new classes could!
• Characters who have bought bank expansion slots when TRing as artificers lose those slots because no one said that artificers would function with those bank slots.
• The new adventure pack, Lords of Chaos takes place on a plane of absolute chaos. As such any character of lawful alignment (including by requirement monks and paladins) are instantly killed. Hey no one said that when you bought monks that they would work with all the content...
• The new adventure pack following up on the fashion show theme of a previous pack has a new dungeon in it called Bad Hair Day. In this dungeon the mad hair dresser can over write your current hair color as part of his insane plan to take over the Stormreach. Have no fear turbine hair dye reversal kits are available in the DDO store...

Vet status, shared bank, LR/GR ships are not "content". They are perks and the analogy of saying that new content wouldn't work with existing content doesn't really apply. You are also taking a very minor issue and extrapolating it to the rediculous (sp?).

Btw, I would love to see content introduced that made permenant alterations to character appearance (as is quite possible in PnP).

[Cyr]

Vet status, shared bank, LR/GR ships are not "content". They are perks and the analogy of saying that new content wouldn't work with existing content doesn't really apply. You are also taking a very minor issue and extrapolating it to the rediculous (sp?).

Btw, I would love to see content introduced that made permenant alterations to character appearance (as is quite possible in PnP).

The simpliest way to examine an argument is to extrapolate it to it's extreme cases.

I believe my fun little examples included a shared bank and an account bank example which would qualify under your more limited 'perks' statement.

Yet, why is there a special case for 'perks'? Did the 'perks' have special disclaimers on them in the DDO Store and in their advertisments that were missing from more conventional content? I do not recall any, but I could be mistaken.

So, simply put. Is it rational to assume that the shared bank and character bank extensions would not work with artificers and other new classes/races? Or did the advertisments and descriptions of these 'perks' list no exceptions for new classes/races and gave no indication that they would be limited in this fashion?

[wolflordnexus]

So why is everyone so bent out of shape about not being able to favor unlock artis immediately upon release? That is 100% a coding/development issue.

It is in no way they simply chose not to use a myriad of other possible options to get a quick cash grab this is a marketing decision and I'm nowhere near naive enough to think otherwise.

You were Neither lied to nor swindled. You purchased an item that delivered exactly what it said it was. While you people (the ones complaining) point out that it doesnt say "except for artificer", there was also nothing in the wording that stated it would apply to future classes immediately upon thier release. That is an assumption YOU made. You can argue that it is implied but I can argue just as well that it is implied to only apply to current game mechanics.

You can not argue in any way that it is implied to only apply to current classes. there's absolutely nothing to back that up.

They (Turbine) have been 100% clear in the fact that they have no intentions of allowing this mechanic to apply to artificers right away and you simply don't agree with them that it is fair. You are using the fact that you purchased a product in the past as a point of argument for somethign that you think you are entitled to.

It's not that I don't agree it's that they changed the arrangement When I purchased Veteran status It stated I could start new characters at 4th level that is no longer the case. I don't "think" I'm entitled to anything, I am entitled to what I purchased.

A trend? Two issues with a single NEW class is a trend? 10% of content (if you ONLY take into account classes) that is brand new to the game is a Trend? A single release out of 20 (Yes, U11 is the 20th update) is a Trend? This is a trend enven though they have stated clearly that this is a temporary issue and will be remedied?

Call it whatever you want It's 2 items where they have cheated the customer and it's a dangerous precedent to set.

[harold2560]

Artificers will be required to be played from level 1 when Update 11 is released to the live servers, just as they work on Lamannia right now. As to when this will change, the best answer I can give right now is that they will be available to use Veteran Status, Lesser, and Greater + Hearts of Wood on at a later date.

absolutely rediculous


thanks for selling me all those +5 hearts from the store.


LAME

[gloopygloop]

absolutely rediculous


thanks for selling me all those +5 hearts from the store.


LAME

If they had made this announcement before they put the +5 hearts on sale in the store, they'd have sold a lot fewer. Which is a good reason in Turbine's mind to delay that announcement as much as possible.

After all, making a quick buck is more important than being honest with your player base.