Artificer and Veteran Status

[Ziindarax]

Didn't do any farming, one run on elite each was enough.. point i was trying to make on the post was had to run it all, despite having bought(and used) vet status, to get the superior(at least for what i intended the character to do) set to what is given to you. Really pretty fun on an artificer, especially once you get the rune arm and get to blasting stuff.. I'm glad they forced me to level that new one. Only hope they don't charge for it on vip accounts! Thoguh if they intend to knowing how much it will be in advance would be nice, can get to farming.

I am going to farm the artifcer arm cannons before I TR into a warforged Artificer... after I build a heavy repeating greensteel lit2 xbow. I am curious to see if the rune arm bug (the one that doesn't let you re-equip certain rune arms once unequipped on the grounds that it "doesn't belong to your team") will apply upon TR'ing.

[ahpook]

You're missing the point. I don't care about the 2 hours that it will take to get to level 4. What I care about is the breach of trust that has just happened.

While it's not a big deal to wade through the first four levels...why is U11 the update where Turbine is deciding that they no longer have to continue to provide the services people paid real money to get?

When people bought Veteran Status from the DDO store, they bought the ability to start all characters at level 4 and there was no caveat of "*except when we don't want you to".
....

There is no breach of trust or change of service. When you bought Veteran status it allowed you to skip the first 4 levels of:
Ranger
Wizard
Sorcerer
Bard
Rogue
Monk
Barbarian
Fighter
Paladin
Cleric
FVS

as far as I can see, Veteran Status still allows you to do that. Now whether Veteran Status should be retroactive to all new classes is a fair question but I can't on the face of it see that complaining about this as unethical business is reasonable.

[gloopygloop]

as far as I can see, Veteran Status still allows you to do that. Now whether Veteran Status should be retroactive to all new classes is a fair question but I can't on the face of it see that complaining about this as unethical business is reasonable.

If Turbine wants us to assume that random things we buy will fail to work with classes that we pay to access, then they have made amazing progress toward that goal with Monk and Artificer.

Somehow, I don't think that Turbine wants us to start making the assumption that the things we buy from them will fail to work for significant parts of the game in the future. That's a strong incentive for us to not buy things from them.

As far as I can see, it's either deceptive business practices or just plain stupid business practices. In either case, it doesn't seem like a particularly good idea.

[gloopygloop]

Since you did not specifically mention True Hearts of wood, we will be able to TR into Artis, correct?

I successfully TR'd my HOrc Fighter into a Human Artificer just to play with the bigger crafting levels.

I would also assume that you can TR *from* an Artificer as well since both passive and active Past Life feats exist for Artificer.

[Anonymous99]

Not overjoyed with this, encountered lock outs on test server. Feel sorry for all the new people that will be stuck. This is an opporutunity though. Been too long since I've done korthos anyways.

[Entelech]

Thanks for the update, Cordovan. Official word from the Devs is helpful.

I just wish you'd explained why the devs felt that levels 2-3 were so critical.

Trying to prevent Completionists from dropping a pair of +5 Hearts just to skip over grinding an Artificer life seems about the only possible rationale, and honestly, from a business standpoint, you're better off selling them the Lesser Hearts. And even if that's your reason, I fail to see why Veteran Status needs to get borked at the same time as Reincarnation swaps.

From a player's perspective, it feels like those who have purchased Veteran Status from the DDO store have been the victims of a bait-and-switch scam. Yes, I've seen the updates to Korthos that are up on Lammania. No, I'm still sick of Korthos. And no, I'm not impressed with the Jesuitry involved in parsing the class list at the time I purchased the account upgrade.

Put simply, the Veteran Status thing (which is separate from the Lesser/Greater Reincarnate thing) makes me feel like you're dealing with your players in bad faith. Those of us who paid for Veteran Status (as opposed to unlocking it with favor, since it's hard to defraud someone who got a product for free) ought to get the option to take Artificer levels on the airship before we land in Stormreach at level 4.

Also, the DDO store ought to immediately place warning text on the Lesser/Greater Hearts of Wood warning that you will not be able to use them to swap in Artificer levels until some nebulous future date. Especially given all the "stock up in preparation for U11" sales we've been seeing, is it any wonder your players feel you're not dealing straight with them?

[knightgf]

The artificer class release is just HORRIBLE. In fact, what they're doing to artificer right now is not only bad, but its just absolutely disgusting for some. The best way to sum up how I feel about the artificer coming out is in a animated gif:



You know, now that I think about it, why not prevent players from TR'ing into artificers, and not to mention why not prevent 32 point builds from working on it? You've already soiled the class by not making it free for VIP's and not allowing veteran status for it, so why not go the whole 100 yards and just screw the class up completely by doing so? I mean think about this: You want players to test artificers from the start, to see how they would do in the beginning. You want us to be put in the noob's place of artificer, so just take away the ability to use 32 point builds, take away our ability to TR into one, and take away the ability to allow it to use the shared bank slot.

I can understand why veteran status shouldn't be allowed to be used on Lamannia because your testing it and all, but why restrict it on live? The only reason you should do this is if the class is in beta, which in doing so, represents the failure of Lamannia as a test server. You want new artificers to start at level 1 for non-TR's; why? Give me a good reason why you want to force this option. There's no major flaws or bugs that I know of with skipping levels through veteran status. Players aren't missing anything major by skipping these levels, unless they're first timers to the whole game, not to artificers. You should have thought twice about making veteran status available for us players, especially for new classes. Plus, I dont see any excuse for preventing the use of lesser and greater hearts of wood on artificers, unless its a bug, which, again, as far as I know, does not exist. If you screw up your artificer, and have the TP, there should be NOTHING barring you from LR or GR'ing and fixing your mistakes.

So lets see here, not free for VIP's, not available for a favor unlock until the next update, not available for a LR/GR and not eligible for veteran status for god-knows-when. Your REALLY adding appeal to making players get these classes, huh Turbine(Sarcasm)? Well guess what? Good luck trying to convince me to get druid, let alone artificer with TP, because the way you treat these classes on release is just totally unacceptable and needs changed. Fernando, if you can read this someplace, I want to let you know that your tactics with new classes might amuse you, but it hurts the customer base and you in the long-term, which is a bad thing!

[Drakos]

This is an intentional design decision, and not related to vet status coding. I will leave it to one of the devs to expound further, but in general the devs want people to play the new class from level 1 when the class makes its live debut.

So, is there any word on compensation those who paid real money for denying them the use of what they bought? This did not list any exceptions to the "start new characters at level 4" that I bought.

As it stands this is just one more reason not to buy this class from Turbine. They are imposing uncalled for limitations on purchased store items, items that were bought in good faith and without any restrictions listed as advertised.

[MRH]

IMO:

Not that its right , I understand each side of view, but it all comes down to that screen where we just scrolled to the bottom and clicked Accept.

While that is not the answer people want to hear, its how company's can do this sort of stuff.

We all agreed to their rules that they could change anything anytime without any recourse.

As they add new stuff.... other stuff has to change.... can't change it in time.... tell them they have to wait... its all stuff we agreed to let Turbine do when we hit Accept.

[HarveyMilk]

As usual, I'll put forth my compromise idea here:

Allow veteran status, but put a really useful, cool arm cannon at the end of the intro tutorial for artificers that start at level 1. This encourages people, with a carrot, to do what you want them to do (start at level 1 and run the new korthos stuff).

People prefer carrots to get them to do things than sticks. Turning off veteran status, which many people purchased, and many just worked hard to get, is a stick that makes some people very unhappy.

Use carrots, not sticks.

That said, personally, I think it's a minor, temporary issue, and there are more important things. But not everyone feels this way, and compromise is the best way to fix problems like this.

[H--Bar]

Does this mean if you multiclass, you MUST take artificer as your first level, because going rogue first level will lose you the election later?

Oops, I mean *selection*

So the artificer trainer will give you a rude gesture unless you were a natural born artificer? This sounds classist.

I do agree, on general principle, that those who paid for veteran status should be able to start any class at level 4. A good compromise would be to allow those who bought (paid tp) for either veteran status or artificers to use veteran status to jump to level 4, whereas the rest of us cheapskates (who got v. status AND artificers through favor) would have to level them from one.

While I'm on it, I also think it's nothing short of broken to remove a feat from completionists the moment you introduce a new class. Leave the completionist feat around until they reincarnate again. It sucks, with many capital letters in there, to think you're done (you win ddo! You UNWIN DDO!), eat a stack of +3 and +4 tomes, only to have to shred the things and start from scratch again. What you force completionists to do is only eat tomes of which they have doubles. This sucks for everyone else, because I like allowing others to roll on that +4 strength tome that I already have in the rare case it actually drops.

But to combine a feat removal with a pay structure means that a VIP completionist now actually has to shell out cash for the privilege of removing all their tomes and rerolling, on top of the $/month they're paying. Here's some money! Oh, have some more and make my character worse please. While you're at it, have some more cash (or time) and give me a true heart of wood. Let's hope I don't accidentally choose the wrong class at level 1, or I've got to get to 20 again before I can reroll into artificer and level up to 20 so I can reroll again back to the class I wanted to play with the feats I used to have. I'll have to farm all those tomes again, but at least I'll have +1 UMD.

Quit with the sharp thing near my craw!

[Clankex]

IMO:

Not that its right , I understand each side of view, but it all comes down to that screen where we just scrolled to the bottom and clicked Accept.

The fact that anyone thinks a company can do whatever it wants, when it wants, however it wants regardless of the contract initially agreed to because a button labeled "Accept" was clicked means the purpose of the EULA/TOS has been achieved. Thinking one gave up their rights are what legal depts depend on.

[UltraMonk2]

While I'm on it, I also think it's nothing short of broken to remove a feat from completionists the moment you introduce a new class. Leave the completionist feat around until they reincarnate again. It sucks, with many capital letters in there, to think you're done (you win ddo! You UNWIN DDO!), eat a stack of +3 and +4 tomes, only to have to shred the things and start from scratch again. What you force completionists to do is only eat tomes of which they have doubles. This sucks for everyone else, because I like allowing others to roll on that +4 strength tome that I already have in the rare case it actually drops.

The Completionist Feat does state in its description that as soon as a new class is introduced the feat gets deactivated.

They were fairly warned and by taking the Completionist Feat they agreed to those terms. :-)

[wolflordnexus]

Are you people serious?

This is an amazing attitude for something so minor (and it isn't just you)...How long does it usually take you to reach level 4 on a character? Do you simply hate Korthos that much or is it actually a significant amount of time? For most "veteran" players, you are talking about less than an hours worth of time.

People on this planet REALLY need to get thier sense of entitlement put back in check and start caring about stuff that actually matters.

When People Pay for something they are in fact entitled to what they paid for that's how Capitalism is supposed to work. Were this a coding issue or such I am fairly certain the reaction wouldn't be so negative. But as it is a conscious decision on Turbines part to go back on the original contract how can you not expect people to feel lied to and swindled, since they were actually lied to and swindled. It may not be that big a deal but It's the principal of the matter. This is actually really no different than if they were to make Artificers unplayable in TOD. I have Paid for the pack I should be able to play it with any class I own. I payed for Vet Status I should be able to use it with any class I own it's as simple as that. There's no legal obligation on their part to allow for either, they are fully within their rights to deny me either, But It does tend to erode my faith as a customer When you make a conscious decision to take payment on an item and change the deal after. The worst part is this seems to be becoming a trend with Turbine.

[patang01]

So many people are walking around feeling entitled and making it out like you are owed everything. Stop being selfish for once and just play the game to have fun.

I seriously wish people would stop making this silly statement. This is not a argument; it's a silly redundant ad hominem attack on people who wonder why features many have paid for with real money is not in play.

As for selfish? I can't even begin to figure out what you're talking about here. Are you telling me that it's selfish of me to want to start at level 4? How will that impact you? Does it somehow take all the kills from you, hog your loot or something?

Seriously. Less emotional statements about other peoples reasoning and better counter arguments.

[patang01]

When People Pay for something they are in fact entitled to what they paid for that's how Capitalism is supposed to work. Were this a coding issue or such I am fairly certain the reaction wouldn't be so negative. But as it is a conscious decision on Turbines part to go back on the original contract how can you not expect people to feel lied to and swindled, since they were actually lied to and swindled. It may not be that big a deal but It's the principal of the matter. This is actually really no different than if they were to make Artificers unplayable in TOD. I have Paid for the pack I should be able to play it with any class I own. I payed for Vet Status I should be able to use it with any class I own it's as simple as that. There's no legal obligation on their part to allow for either, they are fully within their rights to deny me either, But It does tend to erode my faith as a customer When you make a conscious decision to take payment on an item and change the deal after. The worst part is this seems to be becoming a trend with Turbine.

This - is it a entitlement to have functions in play that some pay for?

Yeah. It is. It doesn't allow for anything other than what it states - but if someone paid for a 32 point build starting at level 4 they should certainly be able to use it.

It's not really a argument if they happen to be able to cap a couple of hours before anyone else - that's actually irrelevant. To me it's about not having to run the most boring quests in the very beginning and move onto the meat and potatoes in the harbor.

Arbitrary reasoning is arbitrary regardless if people think it's a entitlement attitude or not. That's simply not relevant.

[Mellkor]

Meh, not getting my panties in a ruff over this.

I am simply going to drop VIP and not buy this class ever. Really no point in VIP anymore. Other than that, this probably wont affect my game play too much.

-a former monthly paying customer

[kinar]

Were this a coding issue or such I am fairly certain the reaction wouldn't be so negative.

So why is everyone so bent out of shape about not being able to favor unlock artis immediately upon release? That is 100% a coding/development issue.

But as it is a conscious decision on Turbines part to go back on the original contract how can you not expect people to feel lied to and swindled, since they were actually lied to and swindled.

You were Neither lied to nor swindled. You purchased an item that delivered exactly what it said it was. While you people (the ones complaining) point out that it doesnt say "except for artificer", there was also nothing in the wording that stated it would apply to future classes immediately upon thier release. That is an assumption YOU made. You can argue that it is implied but I can argue just as well that it is implied to only apply to current game mechanics.
They (Turbine) have been 100% clear in the fact that they have no intentions of allowing this mechanic to apply to artificers right away and you simply don't agree with them that it is fair. You are using the fact that you purchased a product in the past as a point of argument for somethign that you think you are entitled to.

It may not be that big a deal but It's the principal of the matter. This is actually really no different than if they were to make Artificers unplayable in TOD. I have Paid for the pack I should be able to play it with any class I own. I payed for Vet Status I should be able to use it with any class I own it's as simple as that. There's no legal obligation on their part to allow for either, they are fully within their rights to deny me either, But It does tend to erode my faith as a customer When you make a conscious decision to take payment on an item and change the deal after. The worst part is this seems to be becoming a trend with Turbine.

A trend? Two issues with a single NEW class is a trend? 10% of content (if you ONLY take into account classes) that is brand new to the game is a Trend? A single release out of 20 (Yes, U11 is the 20th update) is a Trend? This is a trend enven though they have stated clearly that this is a temporary issue and will be remedied?

I wish Turbine would just cancel U11 and make us wait an additional 3 months for U12 (which would then be tagged U11) and relase it all at once. Lets see how much you guys moan with that announcement. I mean...at that point, they are delivering everything they promised so there isn't anything to complain about right?

[ryingar]

I am ok with having to take lvl 1, if we didnt have to this is what would happen:

Easy to have almost everything banked and ready. have 11 lvls of ftr, 6 lvls of barb, and two levels banked. Now prep your slayers to within a hand full of completion(orchard , vale , reach, GH, more if you want) save a few quick exp farm quests, running with the devils, sane, mining, and a few others to round out the needed exp.

Take those two levels as soon as atrie comes out then use a +5 heart....this leaves you with 7 artie, 6 ftr, 6 barb...with those slayers and quick farms to finish that last 500+k exp and bam you are done.

[gloopygloop]

I am ok with having to take lvl 1, if we didnt have to this is what would happen:

Easy to have almost everything banked and ready. have 11 lvls of ftr, 6 lvls of barb, and two levels banked. Now prep your slayers to within a hand full of completion(orchard , vale , reach, GH, more if you want) save a few quick exp farm quests, running with the devils, sane, mining, and a few others to round out the needed exp.

Take those two levels as soon as atrie comes out then use a +5 heart....this leaves you with 7 artie, 6 ftr, 6 barb...with those slayers and quick farms to finish that last 500+k exp and bam you are done.

I fail to see why that would be a major problem for the game.

"Oh noes! People who don't want to play Artificer will end up with an Artificer past life and not have to spend a long time playing that Artificer! DOOM!"