TR2 - Wiz/Sorc? Advice.

[fyrst.grok]

So.. Gonna TR my WF wiz as soon as U11 hits - question is - Sorceror or wizard again..

I've had a few ideas as to what.. He will still be WF, so I guess my question is, since I have no experience as sorceror.. Will he be gimped because of the -2 chr? Or is the loss worth it in selfealing/immunities?

On another note I should say that I'm only missing the seal for the epic diabolist docent and i have the epic mabar docent, so it's obvious why I have doubts

Was thinking along the lines of a necro/enchanter if i go wiz again.. Maybe with a 2 rogue split for trapping and evasion.

And possible earthsavant if I go sorc, but again - no experience with these.

both will have maxed int/chr and con rest in str for wiz and int for sorc for skillpoints.

[Mrmorphling]

Both are perfectly fine.

I would, personally, TR into a human palemaster with both SF and GFS necro + enchant; this feat setup plus wizard active PL plus epic diabolist will allow you to reach 44dc necro, 43 dc ench and 42 conj with one between +3tome and litany.

I would go human for the extra feat and for the extra INT that will allow you to get even with either +3tome or litany; imho the added benefits of a WF are too few on a palemaster, and atm a human PM is slighlty better than a WF AM.

For what concern class split i would always go pure if you intend to focus on end game raiding / epics as you are losing too much SP and DC for what you gain with a splash.

[blade_of_will]

Both work for wf.

Wizard past life is better.

Earth savant - issue with acid spells seems to be that most are dots and a lot of acid resists at higher levels, so you take a damage hit with each tick. Air/Ice are the prefered ones for end game. Ice has everything, but lots of stuff is resistant/immune to it. Electric has few enemies resistant/immune, but its the only element lacking an aoe dot. Also, ive heard for earth/air savants the sla aoe dots are bugged (lightning storm/cloudkill).

For the split.. if thats the way you feel, thats fine. I would say its probably possible for a wizard to get everything they need with a rogue splash (after a few lives).. but you'll be behind what a full wizard would have.

[fyrst.grok]

Both are perfectly fine.

I would, personally, TR into a human palemaster with both SF and GFS necro + enchant; this feat setup plus wizard active PL plus epic diabolist will allow you to reach 44dc necro, 43 dc ench and 42 conj with one between +3tome and litany.

I would go human for the extra feat and for the extra INT that will allow you to get even with either +3tome or litany; imho the added benefits of a WF are too few on a palemaster, and atm a human PM is slighlty better than a WF AM.

For what concern class split i would always go pure if you intend to focus on end game raiding / epics as you are losing too much SP and DC for what you gain with a splash.

Yea.. Not really that cool being PM on a WF, but I had him set up for it back in his first life before the pre was added, so farmed the mabar docent and he was virtually unkillable till i decided to TR him and they nerfed the build i turned him into back to basics in one of the previous updates.

See - the point is I already got a human necro.. with 2 roguesplash, so if I go sorc with my wf I tr him into necro again.. If not I do it the other way around. Would be great if the mabar event returned, so I could get the robe.

I don't have any part of the diabolist robe yet and i'm having trouble finding pugs for it :/
I do however have the shard and scroll for the docent.

So I guess I mostly need good advice on sorcs and the event to return to make up my mind

Both work for wf.

Wizard past life is better.

Earth savant - issue with acid spells seems to be that most are dots and a lot of acid resists at higher levels, so you take a damage hit with each tick. Air/Ice are the prefered ones for end game. Ice has everything, but lots of stuff is resistant/immune to it. Electric has few enemies resistant/immune, but its the only element lacking an aoe dot. Also, ive heard for earth/air savants the sla aoe dots are bugged (lightning storm/cloudkill).

For the split.. if thats the way you feel, thats fine. I would say its probably possible for a wizard to get everything they need with a rogue splash (after a few lives).. but you'll be behind what a full wizard would have.

Lightening storm? The Helf mark?

In regard to the roguesplash - loved the trapskills and easion - hate giving up 2 spell pen and 1 dc, but thats life..

Tried to turbolevel a sorc on lama during the 1k% xp bonus and the fire SLA's are bugged too.. Fireball just flyes horizontal no matter where you point it..
Air seems better but since he was almost a blank, mobs save on it, so I never got the true idea of what a sorc is capable of.

[rest]

As a WF sorc, your DCs dont matter as much (IN MY OPINION.. THIS IS IN CAPS FOR EMPHASIS. THIS IS MY OPINION) because you'll be more focused on nuking. That's not to say that you couldn't get respectable DCs on a WF sorc. that -2 charisma is only -1 DC at the end of the day. -2 VS a drow.

My first level 20 (after the cap went up from 16) was a drow sorc. She's squishy. But she also was how I learned to play a caster using avoidance and damage mitigation to nuke. I just rolled up a fresh WF sorc, and he blew through everything beingm a fire savant until 18. Hell he still wears the chrono set. Yes, the level 5 chrono set. Just because I haven't geared him out yet. He is my first WF arcane, and he's awesome. Maybe one of my PM's lives will be as a WF while I work my way to having 3 past life feats. We shall see.

I say go for sorc, and if you don't like it you can always go back to wizzy.

[blade_of_will]

Lightening storm? The Helf mark?

Not entirely sure, I remember reading a thread or two about how these were not doing the damage they were supposed to do for the respective savants.

[Mrmorphling]

Well if you have a lot of stashed WF equip you can also build a WF PM and you'll be really night unkillable with HP >600 at end game with full equip, excellent reflex saves due to insightfull reflexes (Even if it'll sting to lose a feat on a WF) so even w/o evasion you would be extremely sturdy and able to 'find' traps barbarian style .

Don't get me wrong a WF sorc is perfect but you will not abuse the past life as your main occupation will be dealing damage where the spell penetration portion isn't usefull and the +1 DC only marginally so; unless you really have all the desirable equip so you can push your DC above 40 with buffs and if you're willing to slot some debuff (hypno/crushing desp/solid fog etc.) you'll be able to attain a 'virtual' DC of 44ish which is perfect to do everything you want even on epic.

[Exar_Jun]

it is more of your play style preference in going 2 rogue but I would suggest that staying pure WF to be more optimal for future considerations of your play. I like that you can change between AM and PM if you feel like it and not have much worry about survivability. Human gets you +1 on DC and feat but in the 40s but is more limiting for self preservation to staying PM. If you like to solo or random pug it makes it even more flexible to stay as WF. IMHO

[voodoogroves]

Yea.. Not really that cool being PM on a WF, but I had him set up for it back in his first life before the pre was added, so farmed the mabar docent and he was virtually unkillable till i decided to TR him and they nerfed the build i turned him into back to basics in one of the previous updates.

Don't let the fleshlings try to sway you with their treacherous words.


Warforged Pale Masters rock, mine is a beast even as a first-lifer - I need to TR him but he's so far down the stack because he's simply effective and I've got other toons that need a LR or TR first.


I've monkeyed with most of the savant options (well, not fire) on a few different toons. Earth is by far my favorite for all-around versatility, air for movement (which will get a boost U11) and cold for boss DPS.

[RumbIe]

I too am at a cross roads like the OP. I have been waiting to TR to get gear for a bit and I'm hoping after a few more ToD runs I'll get my ring and be happy. (Or be super frustrated trying)

In any event I'm a poorly spec'd drow (poor man's 32 build. Now I have bought 32 points builds so drow are a thing of the past for me) PM with 2 rogue splash. I have no problem taking care of the trash solo in ToD or kiting on normal and in epics I do OK. Not great, but ok. My necro and enchant DC is only 38 in lich form with a +2 enchant item.

I plan on going human next life and focusing on Int and Con and building it correctly (This was one of my first toons so I didn't have much experience building). However after building quite a few more characters and leveling them I find it difficult to give up evasion. With insightful reflexes my reflex is in the 30's and it has been huge in survivability. On a few pure characters like my bard WC and my FvS that don't have evasion I miss it so much. also there have been countless quests where a UMD'd raise dead scroll has saved a complete party wipe and I'm not just talking low level quests, but in recent epic runs.

I see everyone say you must be pure Wiz, but what am I giving up as a TR? +1 DC and +2 SP? Is that all? Will the +1 DC be that noticeable/missed?

Thanks

[soulaeon]

I see everyone say you must be pure Wiz, but what am I giving up as a TR? +1 DC and +2 SP? Is that all? Will the +1 DC be that noticeable/missed?

You lose caster levels when you multiclass, not spell levels, so your DC would be the same at 18 as it is when you are 20. Except for wizards, you are losing the capstone which does effectively make you lose some DC. Just figure if the difference is worth losing the capstone.
1 or 2 DC can be a lot in epics or for sorcerers, but not generally.

[Thoradin]

I have a sorc TRed into a WF PM and he will be TRing again with u11 release. I have broken it down several times and IMO if you want to go wiz AM .. stick with WF... if you want to go wiz PM go human (elf if you are going to insist on keeping 2 rogue) and if you want to go sorc i would say WF hands down and i would go Air savant sub into water.. water savant sub into air is also extremely good but you lose the mobility in exchange for the freeze so its a preference thing.

[RumbIe]

I definitely understand it is the capstone I am loosing as I can Heighten (and I do), but that's just +2 Int which is only 1 DC. So that is all that is lost right? Depending on the mob it could be the difference in them rolling a 15 vs a 16 right? Is 1 DC really that noticeable even on epics? Am I missing something else for gaining evasion and a higher umd for raise dead?

Thoradin - You mention that if one insists on keeping a rogue splash to go elf. Is that to make up the lost Spell Penetration? I often see debates of pure Wizards whether to go human or elf with Human usually winning, but why elf for sure if 2 levels of rogue? Any value in half elf instead of pure elf then?

[Thoradin]

elf has an enhancement chain that adds spellpoints AND spell pene for each tier of it you take.. if you try and CC epic chrono or something like that your spell pen and spellpoints will be a major factor in your effectiveness

EDIT/SIDENOTE: the loss of DC depends on what you are sitting at IMO. A dc of 40 is okay in most epics while a 42 is noticably better. 42+ it keeps improving (obviously) but IMO the key number is 42.. I personally (after this next TR) am shooting for a minimum of a 44 with the spell pen to support it. Some people will argue it but i feel no need to shoot for anything over a 44 with current content.