Augment Summoning or dont join.

[Miow]

I disagree on why use bards, they are awesome charmers and buffers. They know exactly which and when the dogs get charmed. I always shoot for a bard for the hound especially on higher difficulty, if someone is refusing you they are just dum or incompetent enough that they actually need to rely on augment summoning.

Bards rock the hound.

[Paleus]

Why do people always have the Bard charm anyways? I never knew the reasoning behind that.

Habit (def) an acquired pattern of behavior that often occurs automatically. Habitual behavior often goes unnoticed in persons exhibiting it, because a person does not need to engage in self-analysis when undertaking routine tasks.

In the context here, a lot of people will learn a raid by observing how others achieved success in the past. They then apply the observed formula without actual conscious thought. Why did the bard do the charming? Was it because it was convenient to have them right there to do their songs and other buffs rather than splitting tasks among people, or is there something I, as a pug, don't understand about a bard's charm or this charming stone shiney thingamobob?

Rather than answering the question through independent research, people copy the behaviors observed, not the reasons. Raids thus become codified such that people think only one particular way is possible for ever completing it and deviations are frowned upon. Furthermore, false information will often enter into these codifications because the people observing it aren't actually thinking about it. Greater heroism on the puppies for instance, ask a pug what they think about it. As a result the understanding of game mechanics is lower, thereby raising the standards for the player's gear/feat/level checks to pass a raid because when something becomes a habit an actual 'player-skill check' is removed (its also not easy to quantify at a glance like myddo is).

As a note: while asking people how to run a raid can be a quick way of accessing information about the raid, they more often than not are going by habit as well, so its often better to do independent research on how a raid works than just go by what everyone says. Not to say they are wrong, because we obviously complete raids, but as more people rely on habit rather than learning, the quality of pugs will decline.

Edit: I mean seriously, Von5 is a relatively easy raid to learn, but more often than not no one in a pug A) knows how to run it and B) doesn't want to take the time to learn how to run it. And vale puzzles, they take like 5 minutes to do a forum search and read a post that explains how to do it by hand very simply. No reason that on your 20th time running it you still need to ask for someone to come solve it or even window out and pull up a solver. Wooh, had to get that off my chest personally pet peeves.

[gloopygloop]

Tried to join a Hound earlier on a bard. Was told if I dont have augment summoning I cant join.

I laugh when I hear things like that. If he didn't kick the other players for leaving off Augment Summoning (including himself), then he can take his demand, fold it up *real* nice and...

[Enoach]

There used to be a belief that the Charm has a save DC, and that it was based off of the Charmer's Charisma. So, Bards, then Sorcs, then Paladins, etc... for charming the dogs.

Also, the Bard is kind of natural for it because of the fact they have so many combat-related buffs. They can Invis/Shadowwalk themselves, grab the stones quickly while everyone else fights the Renders, hop in, Charm, and IC/GH/Haste/UMD Mass Bears/Bulls/Cat's before heading back outside to help the rest of the group, or help backup heal the dogs, whatever.

And all this time I thought it was to make Bards feel useful j/k

There are many discussions about the Puppy Charm and I believe its been proven that the Charm itself is Timed. So it does not matter if its a Bard or Barbarian doing it.

However, I've been seeing Stone duty getting assigned to "faster" characters, those with speed boosts or natural speed enhancements (you know the ones that your always seeing the back of their heads when questing). As not only are the Charms Timed, so is the appearance of Beholders.

That is interesting that Augment Summoning does effect the Charm, that would be even more buffage.

[Darkrok]

The nice thing is that come U11 I'll finally be able to run HoX on my bard since the artificers will be the ones charming the dogs.

[TheDearLeader]

And all this time I thought it was to make Bards feel useful j/k

There are many discussions about the Puppy Charm and I believe its been proven that the Charm itself is Timed. So it does not matter if its a Bard or Barbarian doing it.

However, I've been seeing Stone duty getting assigned to "faster" characters, those with speed boosts or natural speed enhancements (you know the ones that your always seeing the back of their heads when questing). As not only are the Charms Timed, so is the appearance of Beholders.

That is interesting that Augment Summoning does effect the Charm, that would be even more buffage.

Right. The Charm is indeed a static timer, regardless of charmer. So a Monk, or Barb/Ranger with Sprint boost, would get back to the center marginally faster than a Bard using Shadowwalk.

Having Augment Summoning is nice - requiring it is failsauce.

[Letrii]

How could he tell if you had the feat anyway?

[Llewndyn]

I didnt know that but it isnt worth if for one raid

/signed

I got asked on my sorc if I had ooze puppet for a mission once, a higher level one, can't remember which one but I think it was in RR, I said no, and the rest of the mission they were complaining about it being critical to have in there. My response was why would I get a spell that only works in 1 or 2 missions? It's not the same as getting a metalline PG weapon, it takes up a SPELL slot! I would chalk it up to a lack of understanding Chai and move on, you lucked out there.

[ainmosni]

PUGGing on Sarlona

not an accurate pic for ddo, as the guy on the far right is a druid

[Seikojin]

The fact that is boost charm or bust, I would have been happy to not get in on it. There are only a handful of quests in the game that need your stuff to be maxxed out in order to succeed.

[Sarisa]

/signed

I got asked on my sorc if I had ooze puppet for a mission once, a higher level one, can't remember which one but I think it was in RR, I said no, and the rest of the mission they were complaining about it being critical to have in there. My response was why would I get a spell that only works in 1 or 2 missions? It's not the same as getting a metalline PG weapon, it takes up a SPELL slot! I would chalk it up to a lack of understanding Chai and move on, you lucked out there.

Enter the Kobold most likely. Living Spells are classed as oozes, and can be charmed by Ooze Puppet. The old version of that end fight had several Living Meteor Swarms that did massive damage even to those with evasion, and was one of the hardest end fights in the game at the time (even on normal). It's nowhere near as nasty now as it once was. That said, expecting a Sorc to have such a situational spell is stupid.

Hound is very picky. I noticed that Prayer, which is just 1 point of dog damage, can save upwards of 20 seconds on a Hard run. Augment Summoning is a significant help, but it's not a make-or-break ability. When I favour capped, my Elite HoX did not have an Augment Summoning carrying charmer, and we succeeded just fine (and it was via the "Nascar" method killing the Beholders, not this silly "H" method letting them race around the outside).

Also note when you examine a dog, you can SEE the charm timer. That way you can tell exactly when a dog is going to break, warn the healers and tank, and get one re-charmed right away.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I love it when people feel the desire to argue with an idiot for the privilege of joining his group.

[Ancient]

Tried to join a Hound earlier on a bard. Was told if I dont have augment summoning I cant join. Then when I explained we used to run this on elite, the excuse I was given for this was that theres alot of f2p who dont know whats up.

The proper response at this point is to tell him that most hound groups require improved augment summoning and you doubt they can complete without it.

[Kalari]

This is why my bards rarely pug and I do not pug Hox with em. I dont mind charming the dogs its an artform for me get the crystals charm the puppies sing help heal even on my war chanter i'll back up with a cure mod mass if I need to even if it doesnt do a lot. But if someone was to tell me Id have to have a feat to do the raid id laugh at them so hard. Especially augment summoning yeah not going to happen.

I see why now I got that weird tell a few weeks back with some angry dude saying "HOX click the F**** lfm" my response to his was not very polite but he deserved it.

long story short pugs are only fun lately on Sarlona if your a masochist I have been pugging to just see how it is and the stupidity is high at many levels. And for one good run you go threw a ton of bad. Think you lucked out this time Chai people who place demands on players before a raid tend to try to make up for big time short comings.

[Chai]

The oddity here is that I thought I had heard it all before. Ive seen things like link boss beaters for Shroud normal, Know the quest followed with need guide in the same LFM, dont join if you need a specific item, etc, but this one took the cake for me.

Sarlona has always been on and off for PUGing so I kind of know Im rolling the dice when I join an LFM, but even then, I felt slightly (and hilariously) blindsided by this new demand, heh.

[Aelonwy]

I see why now I got that weird tell a few weeks back with some angry dude saying "HOX click the F**** lfm" my response to his was not very polite but he deserved it.

I just want to make sure i understand what you're saying.... you were on you're bard and someone you didn't know sent you an angry tell to join his HOX Lfm?!?! .... if my understanding is correct that is the strangest, most incomprehensible not to mention incredibly rude behavior I have ever heard of.... so far in this game.

[mudfud]

I disagree on why use bards, they are awesome charmers and buffers. They know exactly which and when the dogs get charmed.

I'm not sure I get this. If I charm the dogs on say my ranger, I know when they are charmed by the pinkish symbol over there head. I also know how long the buff lasts from simply opening an examine window. Plus, the fact that I've done nearly a thousand on all alts, you can basically tell how low MamaDoggie's HP is to know when the charm will end.

[Kalari]

I just want to make sure i understand what you're saying.... you were on you're bard and someone you didn't know sent you an angry tell to join his HOX Lfm?!?! .... if my understanding is correct that is the strangest, most incomprehensible not to mention incredibly rude behavior I have ever heard of.... so far in this game.

He didnt just send me a tell he out right demanded I click on his F***ing lfm those words exactly I was shocked then I gave it back to him. Obviously my guilds reputation for drinking and our attitudes after such is not well known anymore. It was just strange I dont really look at the Lfm's many nights cause when I log on there is a plan so im on my ship buffing up for whatever we were about to take on and get that rude tell to click on his Lfm cant you see we need a bard? I am pretty sure that he did not get a bard for his HOX that night either and if he was just joking it went over my head being cussed at.

[Aelonwy]

Wow.... just wow. I hope you reported him... or squelched him or something. That's the kind of behavior that would get someone on my blacklist.... (which only has 3 names 'cause I'm generally pretty tolerant) and then mentioned to every one of my friends as a "headsup this person is has issues!"

[Kalari]

Wow.... just wow. I hope you reported him... or squelched him or something. That's the kind of behavior that would get someone on my blacklist.... (which only has 3 names 'cause I'm generally pretty tolerant) and then mentioned to every one of my friends as a "headsup this person is has issues!"

Oh he got squelched after I told him I did not read your lfm I am already in a guild group and **** off just like that. I was not particularly drunk that night (hence me not forgetting his rudeness) but I did let him have it before adding his name to my squelched list. I just could not believe the audacity. Maybe he was waiting a long time for a bard but with that attitude I sure as heck could see why.