TR monk for tanking

[elg582]

I'm about to TR a pure monk, and since I have so many, I thought that I would try a higher HP, burst damage monk for tanking. Earth III for crit bonus and DR, ninja II for dps and incorporeal, 7 fighter for haste boosts, HP, and item defense, 1 rogue for UMD.

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Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(7 Fighter \ 12 Monk \ 1 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 360
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 15
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         12                    13
Wisdom               12                    14
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                     3
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         3                     6
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                  1                     2
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  3                     6
Listen                1                     2
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     1
Spot                  1                     2
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Fighter)

Anything that I've missed?

[jmonty]

why not pure monk?

[elg582]

why not pure monk?

A few of reasons:

1) I already have like 5 pure level 20 monks.

2) I want **** tons of HP.

3) The haste boosts should make tanking faster.

4) I want item defense; I occasionally have things break when tanking in epics on pure monk.

[Vissarion]

Have you considered 12 Fighter/7 Monk/1 Rogue? You lose Ninja Spy II, Earth Stance, and a couple ticks of unarmed die progression, but gain Kensei II, more HP, and 30% haste boosts.

I haven't done the math, but I'd imagine the Kensei II option would provide for better DPS, but the new Earth stance should make the difference pretty minor.

[elg582]

Have you considered 12 Fighter/7 Monk/1 Rogue? You lose Ninja Spy II, Earth Stance, and a couple ticks of unarmed die progression, but gain Kensei II, more HP, and 30% haste boosts.

I haven't done the math, but I'd imagine the Kensei II option would provide for better DPS, but the new Earth stance should make the difference pretty minor.

Well, fighter 12 would give 20 more hp, 5% more on haste boost and power surge, but lose x3 crit, 2 unarmed die steps and abundant step.

I think the DPS difference will be extremely slight, and even the hp might be a wash if the extra +1 CON on earth 3 makes it even (or it could save a few AP on a pretty tight mix).

To be honest, the most tempting change I have considered is dwarf instead of warforged, but I don't think it will tank as well.

[Cyreonx]

I'm making a 13/7 monk paladin to take advantage of the new earth stance. You'd gain smites, divine sacrifice, divine righteousness, fear immunity, some casting/healing in exchange for a couple strength and kensai damage. More well rounded and potential to tank instead of a bit more dps.

[Vissarion]

Well, fighter 12 would give 20 more hp, 5% more on haste boost and power surge, but lose x3 crit, 2 unarmed die steps and abundant step.

I think the DPS difference will be extremely slight, and even the hp might be a wash if the extra +1 CON on earth 3 makes it even (or it could save a few AP on a pretty tight mix).

To be honest, the most tempting change I have considered is dwarf instead of warforged, but I don't think it will tank as well.

Fighter will also give you 3 more feats, only one of which would need to be spent on a Kensei prereq (Greater Weapon Specialization), so theoretically it could be 64 hit points if both of the extra feats end up being toughnesses (not the fighter feats themselves, of course, but you could change around feats to fit them in). You would also get two more boosts per rest, which may be important depending on how quickly you exhaust them.

Dwarf would tank poorly against horned devils, but it would open up the possibility of tanking Horoth (though that would definitely require as many toughness feats as you could fit in), since it'd be easier to heal without the WF healing penalty. I guess it depends on what your tanking priorities are.

Overall, though, I think you're probably right about the DPS difference being minimal. I have a more traditional Godhand build, but wouldn't mind trying out the 12 Monk variant at some point, to see how it compares.

Edit: Also, why no Stunning Fist? Between Fighter enhancements, Kensei I, and WF tactics, you should be able to manage a very impressive DC. With both S Blow and Fist, you could do some very nice epic crowd controlling.

[elg582]

Fighter will also give you 3 more feats, only one of which would need to be spent on a Kensei prereq (Greater Weapon Specialization), so theoretically it could be 64 hit points if both of the extra feats end up being toughnesses (not the fighter feats themselves, of course, but you could change around feats to fit them in). You would also get two more boosts per rest, which may be important depending on how quickly you exhaust them.

Dwarf would tank poorly against horned devils, but it would open up the possibility of tanking Horoth (though that would definitely require as many toughness feats as you could fit in), since it'd be easier to heal without the WF healing penalty. I guess it depends on what your tanking priorities are.

Overall, though, I think you're probably right about the DPS difference being minimal. I have a more traditional Godhand build, but wouldn't mind trying out the 12 Monk variant at some point, to see how it compares.

Edit: Also, why no Stunning Fist? Between Fighter enhancements, Kensei I, and WF tactics, you should be able to manage a very impressive DC. With both S Blow and Fist, you could do some very nice epic crowd controlling.

Good point about dwarf tanking, and WF healing penalty is more than offset by arcane healing.

4 toughness' is obviously overkill; I think of at least 2 as placeholders, where I have considered stunning fist, combat expertise, etc. I have both SF and SB in my current life, but find myself in DPS mode more often than stun mode, even in epics.

[Vissarion]

Good point about dwarf tanking, and WF healing penalty is more than offset by arcane healing.

4 toughness' is obviously overkill; I think of at least 2 as placeholders, where I have considered stunning fist, combat expertise, etc. I have both SF and SB in my current life, but find myself in DPS mode more often than stun mode, even in epics.

I'd normally agree about the arcane healing thing, but once again, it's mainly about your tanking goals. If you're aiming to tank Horoth, it can be tough to always have enough arcanes to take care of the healing, depending on the kinds of groups you normally run with. Same thing with the toughness feats. I built my Godhand for the express purpose of tanking Horoth and ended up taking 5 toughnesses and still feel a little HP light. :/

At least with the U11 handwraps, it won't be difficult to be in both stun and DPS mode at the same time.

[elg582]

I'd normally agree about the arcane healing thing, but once again, it's mainly about your tanking goals. If you're aiming to tank Horoth, it can be tough to always have enough arcanes to take care of the healing, depending on the kinds of groups you normally run with. Same thing with the toughness feats. I built my Godhand for the express purpose of tanking Horoth and ended up taking 5 toughnesses and still feel a little HP light. :/

At least with the U11 handwraps, it won't be difficult to be in both stun and DPS mode at the same time.

Well, I was thinking that having monk healing amp and maybe the claw set would let me be well-healed by both divines and arcanes, essentially doubling the number of potential healers.

Working from my typical gear setup, I'm estimating having about 700 hp buffed; I know that puts me in the "danger zone" of getting double-zapped tanking horoth, but I'm looking into exceptional gear to try to get over 750.

[Vissarion]

Well, I was thinking that having monk healing amp and maybe the claw set would let me be well-healed by both divines and arcanes, essentially doubling the number of potential healers.

Working from my typical gear setup, I'm estimating having about 700 hp buffed; I know that puts me in the "danger zone" of getting double-zapped tanking horoth, but I'm looking into exceptional gear to try to get over 750.

Yeah, if you can get the gear for it, it would most likely work. I imagine geared out with enough healing amp plus shadow fade would make ToD tanking rather nice.

[Aragan]

Drop one of your toughness feats and pick up hamstring it is excellent for tanking.

[elg582]

Yeah, if you can get the gear for it, it would most likely work. I imagine geared out with enough healing amp plus shadow fade would make ToD tanking rather nice.

Any tanking/hp gear that I'm not thinking of?

edit: DT Docent (Heal +10%, +20%, Incite +30%)
edit: Jidz'Teka
eGloves of claw - +6 STR, 30% healing amp, set bonus +4 damage, +20% threat
WIS and DEX ToD rings
HP/displacement GS helm
Madstone Boots
eCloak of the Roc/eCloak of Night
Lenses of Opportunity
Oremi's Necklace
edit: eBelt of the Mroranon
edit: eGem of Many Facets

[elg582]

Drop one of your toughness feats and pick up hamstring it is excellent for tanking.

Thanks, I'll try it out

[Vissarion]

Any tanking/hp gear that I'm not thinking of?

Quorforged docent - superior false life, toughness, +6 CON
eBracers of claw - exceptional +2 CON, heavy fort
eGloves of claw - +6 STR, 30% healing amp, set bonus +4 damage, +20% threat
WIS and DEX ToD rings
HP/displacement GS helm
Madstone Boots
eCloak of the Roc/eCloak of Night
Lenses of Opportunity
Oremi's Necklace

Looks pretty solid. One possibility could be to find slots for GFL/Toughness elsewhere (Epic Belt of Mroranon, perhaps) so you could build a good tanking DT Docent with some combination of healing amp/incite.

[elg582]

Looks pretty solid. One possibility could be to find slots for GFL/Toughness elsewhere (Epic Belt of Mroranon, perhaps) so you could build a good tanking DT Docent with some combination of healing amp/incite.

OK, I was wondering what belt to get; That would even let me use eGem of Many Facets for set bonus, opening bracer slot for jidz'teka or the new U11 bracers.