Another Ranger Question

[dragonmane]

I have a level 9 ranger and I am wanting to go AA. I use the Manyshot feat, but really, its lasts only like 20 seconds and then cant be used for another 30. Why is this? I want to use my bow exclusively, but I am finding that I cant seem to get the DPS I need to be able to use it all the time. Why isnt the Manyshot feat a passive feat? At level 9 I am able to solo quests, but I am very far behind other melee that have great feats that they can either spam or that are passive. I remember reading somewhere that update 11 will be a range update, but now it looks like its just for crossbows and the new artifacer.

[grodon9999]

You've been here since 2006 and you haven't realized that bows suck in DDO yet?

[theodin]

Rangers are one of my favorite classes to run, my main is a capped TR ranger that went the AA route for his second life and it was a blast. I found many shot when active is one of the most powerful forms of damage output in the game. When properly used it can clear a room of mobs in mere seconds. If this was active all the time you would be a one man wrecking crew with god like abilities to rule all that stands before you. A gatling gun on 2 legs.

You can still do quite a bit of damage to them when they are at range and kill some before they can get to you but.... You should always be prepared to swap to melee when they close the gap as you will output more damage with your 2 weapon fighting then with the bow.

Kil

[junta74]

Your rate of fire will increase in U11, but not by much. When Manyshot is on cooldown, you need to have something else productive to do. If you plan on going 20 levels of ranger, two weapon fighting is probably the way to go. Another route would be to use one of those repeaters when you don't have manyshot (since you will have Improved precise shot anyway) and line up as many enemies as you can.

You can of course keep plucking away at the bow, but as you have noticed, the DPS goes way way way down. You may want to switch to a paralyzing bow during that time to keep on doing something for the group.

If you are on a single boss fight, and you've used up manyshot, and the roll of your toon is DPS, you need to whip out a couple of scimitars to keep the DPS up.

[dragonmane]

You've been here since 2006 and you haven't realized that bows suck in DDO yet?

I am a very casual player and well, I havent really played ranger before. Since my daughter started one I thought we could do it together and well, I wasnt to impressed with the class. When I think of a ranger I think of using a bow and using magic to increase the bows dps. Manyshot is great, but really, its just 20 seconds, that is not enough because any fighter, paly, or even the bard can out dps the ranger. I have a paralyer bow, but I am not at level yet to use it. I am just dissapointed that using a bow is not worth even trying to do on a class that mainly should use the bow. Of course this is my own opinion.

[junta74]

I am a very casual player and well, I havent really played ranger before. Since my daughter started one I thought we could do it together and well, I wasnt to impressed with the class. When I think of a ranger I think of using a bow and using magic to increase the bows dps. Manyshot is great, but really, its just 20 seconds, that is not enough because any fighter, paly, or even the bard can out dps the ranger. I have a paralyer bow, but I am not at level yet to use it. I am just dissapointed that using a bow is not worth even trying to do on a class that mainly should use the bow. Of course this is my own opinion.

It's an opinion shared by many. U11 will also change point blank shot to +1 damage die which may help keep that bow in your hands. Bow use still has many things going for it (slaying arrows, less damage accrued, can kill stuff before it gets into your area) but as for pure DPS, not so good.

[Aerendil]

If you're primarily grouping or raiding, using a bow *can* exceed melee dps provided there's a room full of monsters, and you can line them up with your bow. The new U11 firing rates are about 1 arrow per second as a full 20 Ranger with capstone, and even faster with haste. 1 arrow per second hitting 5 or more monsters really tallies the damage.

The problem is, as others have noted, the 1 vs. 1 scenerio. Manyshot solves that, for the most part, but when that's down, you're in trouble.

Eladrin has hinted at a possible new ranged stance or fix, helping them in this 1 vs. 1 scenerio (especially for raid bosses) to improve dps, but when that will get in the game is anyone's guess.

I'd definitely keep a good pair of weapons around, and know when to switch to melee IMO.

[smithtj3]

As other's have mentioned, a level 20 AA ranger is thing of beauty for those 20 seconds of manyshot. For you, at level 9, I understand why you don't find it all that impressive and you're right. Keep in mind, however, that as you level your ranger the number of arrows you shoot during many shot will increase dramatically and come level 20, your over all rate of fire will also increase substantially. There is also, of course, improved precise shot which lets you fire through unlimited numbers of enemies (assuming they are all arranged in a straight line) damaging everything in the arrows path. With practice and luck you can lay waste to large swathes of adversaries with a bow closer to the level 20 end of things. For now, just have patience and practice your bow to two weapon fighting switch up.

[Fetchi]

I am a very casual player and well, I havent really played ranger before. Since my daughter started one I thought we could do it together and well, I wasnt to impressed with the class. When I think of a ranger I think of using a bow and using magic to increase the bows dps. Manyshot is great, but really, its just 20 seconds, that is not enough because any fighter, paly, or even the bard can out dps the ranger. I have a paralyer bow, but I am not at level yet to use it. I am just dissapointed that using a bow is not worth even trying to do on a class that mainly should use the bow. Of course this is my own opinion.

Your opinion is shared by many, including me. What the developers fail to understand is that when a new player wishes to play a ranger, its usually because they want to use a bow. Then the player comes to the same conclusion that you and many of us have come to. That the bow's damage doesn't come close to pulling out 2 muckbanes and meleeing.

Most people will tell you that you should put the bow down when manyshot is not active, and pull out two weapons to be more effective. But what everyone fails to understand, is that you shouldn't have to. The game is poorly designed in this regard. But we have to adapt to the game, and thus, this form of thinking has become the standard. So people will say if you don't put the bow down when manyshot is not active, you are doing it wrong - and unfortunately, they are correct.

If ranged combat was designed correctly, you and many others would be able to play your ranged-ranger how you envisioned. Using a bow for 90% of the time and falling back on a melee alternative when the situation called for it. But currently, you can only be effective using your bow about 25% of the time (when using manyshot), the rest of the time you are a squishy fighter with a few buffs.

This is a horrible implentation in my opinion. That would be like allowing a Wizard to only cast spells for 20 seconds out of every 2 minutes, the rest of the time they have to melee. That would be like allowing a barbarian to rage and melee for 20 seconds out of every 2 minutes, the rest of the time they have to use a throwing weapon. That would be like telling a monk they can only punch and kick for 20 seconds out of every 2 minutes, the rest of the time they have to use a shuriken. You get the point.

For some reason, increasing the rate of fire or damage output for archery; or balancing ranged vs melee combat is like trying to balance the national budget. It really isn't that hard.

[arch0njw]

The problem is, as others have noted, the 1 vs. 1 scenerio. Manyshot solves that, for the most part, but when that's down, you're in trouble.

One on one, I tend to backpedal and fire. Sure, I take the movement penalty, but I tend to get hit very seldom.

As for pulling out muckbanes and going to town, once an AA can imbue acid arrows, most oozes don't stand a chance.

But, they key, IMO, is grouping. I have a small band of AAs running together and it is a riot. We pummel the baddies with a hail of arrows before they can close the distance. It's really kind of unfair. On the upside, I'm not repairing my gear quite so much in that case!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Rgrs are my favorite class. AAs especially.

I use bows when I feel like it; I melee when I feel like it.
I am well aware of the limitations of both.

Non-manyshot/non-slayer arrow bow DPS is weak. Slayer arrow DPS is inconsistant.

But in general, if you kill something in one second or 10 minutes it is still just as dead.
Of course sometimes "you" might not survive the 10 minutes to kill it, but that depends on the situation.
(and sometimes the zergng Barbarians in your group will have completed the quest in five minutes.....so it might take a lot of the fun out of it for you if you are still kiting around a single mob from the first room of the dungeon.)

Yes. We all know ranged DPS is weak.
We all hate it.
We all have been complaining about it for over five years now.

Many of us find it fun anyway.
Many of us figure out how to contribute with it anyway.

My answer has been to switch between ranged and melee depending on the situation (or my mood).

[arch0njw]

Rgrs are my favorite class. AAs especially.

{snip er rooney tooney}

Many of us find it fun anyway.
Many of us figure out how to contribute with it anyway.

My answer has been to switch between ranged and melee depending on the situation (or my mood).

Very well said.
/clap

[Kohmi]

When I first started playing this game, the first class i looked at was a ranger. I enjoy being a support dps. Arcane archer sounds like it will be fun, descrption on the character creation says leathel with bows. So as I grind out the levels I notice the major problem right away.. soooooooo weak.

When did the meaning of Leathel with bows change to you got to melee fool.

Since it was my first character and didnt know about the stats and such I figured I screwed up. So I remade it, this time with the heavy repeating Crossbow. Now before everyone says this isnt the right weapon for a ranger, I know now When I read bow strength I assumed it also included Xbows cause they are also.. Bows lol.

Anyways I made another ranger but this time going with full strength, 14 wisdom for ranger abilities, and the rest in con and dex. This has made a big difference. I am seeing higher numbers, still feels low though. At level 5 using a +1 Icyburst Longbow of Pure good, i have been able to 1 hit mobs at range (normal mode, and on the lucky high damage rolls.)

I love how the ranger plays using a bow. Just sad that knowing eventually when I get into the heavy group questing I'm going to be forced to go melee when 1 ability is on cooldown. So I ask everyone, especially whoever is incharge of game balance. Where is the Leathle with Bows we were promised?

[smithtj3]

So I ask everyone, especially whoever is incharge of game balance. Where is the Leathle with Bows we were promised?

Rangers particularly deliver some unmatched murdering ability in six areas.

1. You find yourself and a seemingly insurmountable number of enemies in a long narrow corridor. I don't care how many ub3r l00tz the super TR barbarian has in your party, an AA with just a simple Silver Bow is going to crush him in DPS. I know this seems like a nearly non existant occurance but such examples do occur.

2. Below level content (preferably against enemies that are favored enemies). Giant Hold, The Vale, The Sands are all examples. Because these monsters have a lower CR level than what you'll find in ToD, VoD, and HoX, every time your slayer arrow procs you get an immediate kill. Everytime your LitII bow procs, you get an immediate kill. The monsters just don't have the HP necessary to withstand that kind of damage. Sure a strictly hand to hand combat toon will do more attacks in a second that a ranger will with a bow, but they aren't doing as high of damage per attack. When you score a critical hit, it's game over for whatever you're aiming at.

3. The crystals over the barrier to the central pool in part three of The Shroud.

4. The two instances where you can shoot two portals simulatenously in part 1 of The Shroud

5 Against Queen Lailat in Against the Demon Queen when she is off flailing ineffectually on one of her platforms and not commencing with a horrific amount of up close face stabbing. She's stabbing your face, not her own face. Make sure to let a wizard blast half his SP into her grill first because if you cross her she will not hesistat to toss your **** down into that lava.

6. Breakables. Proximity is for poor people.

[CanuckWisdom]

I think part of the problem with bows is, theyre ranged. If they did the same damage as melee, they would be too powerful, same damage. no running, safe at a range, etc.

[EustaceTrevelyan]

I think part of the problem with bows is, theyre ranged. If they did the same damage as melee, they would be too powerful, same damage. no running, safe at a range, etc.

Don't have the link, but i read somewhere (on the forums) that in the original DDO beta they were just that, much like LOTRO hunters are (you can often take down something before it gets to you, or at least drop it to half hp). Everyone was complaining that ranged was destroying the content so they reduced it. I like ranged myself, and if you know how to use it it can be powerful. But support damage overall (situationally of course you pwn).

I really want to somehow leverage Shuriken Expertise into something lethal, perhaps a drow even This is probably not possible tho

[CanuckWisdom]

Yea, I think ranged could stand some buffing, but in my mind its like, ranged is very effective but it requires a lot of player skill. Which can be fun, but TBH, even the most enthusiatic player isnt going to be that 'on' to always take advantage of imp.precise, weapon switching to debuff, action boosts, swapping arrows for DR etc all at the same time. Its a bit much.

Still, if you can get on top of it all, its got potential.


Monk drow, take all the (relevant) ranged feats you can and wind stance that shiz.

[Kinerd]

I am a very casual player and well, I havent really played ranger before. Since my daughter started one I thought we could do it together and well, I wasnt to impressed with the class. When I think of a ranger I think of using a bow and using magic to increase the bows dps. Manyshot is great, but really, its just 20 seconds, that is not enough because any fighter, paly, or even the bard can out dps the ranger. I have a paralyer bow, but I am not at level yet to use it. I am just dissapointed that using a bow is not worth even trying to do on a class that mainly should use the bow. Of course this is my own opinion.

Manyshot ends up quadrupling your damage output, multiplied by how well you can make use of Improved Precise Shot. If bows were competitive with melee single-target DPS outside of Manyshot, they would be insanely overpowered. Rangers should make use of both styles - never using one or the other dramatically lowers your ceiling.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I think part of the problem with bows is, theyre ranged. If they did the same damage as melee, they would be too powerful, same damage. no running, safe at a range, etc.

Currently the only thing limiting any of that is player patience.

[Zachski]

Point Blank Shot is essentially going to double (well, not really) ranged damage in close range.

So essentially, you're going to be deadly with a bow within "30 feet".

A much needed buff, but we'll see how it works out.