Wings updated

[Claymorep]

Turbine has impressed me with their ability to engage in never-ending radical changes to gameplay. I'd like to see them get things right the first time a little more often. Constantly introducing stuff only to nerf it later (sometimes years later and often at the cost of lots of Shroud ingredients) is just poor development. This game feels like it's in permanent beta.

Even if I like about this last minute change and I hope they extend it in wilderness, I totally agree with You.
Me and all my guild are a bit boring to see changes at every update: game mechanic changes, class changes, nerf and so on. It seems that everithing they change need to be changed again and again and again. Is it so hard to just correct it?

I like this game but as I can undertand improments and balancing I can't understand nerfs. A lot of games are dead cause nerfs or arbitrarly changes in the wrong direction. It make me fell strange about an occult politic about this but too many things happens in strange moments (the last: barbarian past life correction after near a year and "puf" barbarian damage boost increase...)

I've lost too many friends for some changes and for what I can feel in the air of my guild I think I'll lose someone else and probably me too...

[moops]

I think most hard core players understand how broken the wings are in their current state.

I agree, I thought that they would've been changed months ago, and it is why I never adopted a play style that relied on them.

[TheDjinnFor]

It's exactly the same as they did with the crafting 'improvements'. That people can't see right through it is just... sad.

No, it's completely different. Crafting was made harder for specific reasons to address a specific problem but their approach went overboard and they had to retreat on it.

Wings, on the other hand, were supposed to be nerfed for a specific reason due to specific problems but their approach ended up nerfing them in other ways that weren't actual problems. Implementing this change isn't a retreat tactic, it's the correction of an oversight that's unrelated to the nerf.

It's the difference between the ESoS nerf and the bug that removed Protection +5 from the Epic Ring of the Buccaneer; one was intentional and the other was an accident.

On a side note, apparently there's a subset of players who don't think wings deserved any nerf at all. I'm amazed.

[pHo3nix]

It seems Turbine isn't as stupid as they appear to be.

Turbine isn't stupid and doesn't seem so. Though i cannot say the same of so many people writing here, who are so happy of this step forward after we did 10 steps back

Soloing with self healing class/race combos is easy anyway, wings were just fun cause you can move faster
But again, there are people that think aiming a searing light in this game is hard (:O), so i can understand why they think wings were too fast and so mobility has to be reduced.

I propose to remove every form of speed boost in the game, so we all move at the same speed and there will be the mythical balance a lot of people are seeking

[soulaeon]

I suggest an Air Savant, I read that they are buffing Wind Dance in U11!!!!!!ELEVEN!!1111

Where did they say that? It works perfectly already, except it would be cool if it actually did was it said and let us "leap" instead of dash, or a windy animation would be nice.

[Caseas]

I'm not going to be grateful anyway.

This modus operandi is so sad and old that i wonder why people always approve it in the end: someone threatens to do something really really really really bad and all complain. Then they just do something bad, and more than half of those who were complaining stop complaining and are grateful.

That's because they own the game, your characters, the servers, and everything we all 'rent' from them. They have the authority and power to do what they will. Be grateful they don't do worse.

If you then respond by saying, "well if they did worse it would kill the game and blah blah blah!" I assure you: DDO would live on, without you in it.

It could be worse, so much worse, but it's not.

[pHo3nix]

That's because they own the game, your characters, the servers, and everything we all 'rent' from them. They have the authority and power to do what they will. Be grateful they don't do worse.

If you then respond by saying, "well if they did worse it would kill the game and blah blah blah!" I assure you: DDO would live on, without you in it.

It could be worse, so much worse, but it's not.

Who said that? It's just a game, when i'll be bored i'll just change game, no big deal. I've never said i'm going to quit cause of it, i've just said it's an annoying nerf.

[katz]

fun fun fun or fun fun fun fun.

NO

Or possibly Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun

yes (maybe? i didn't watch the whole thing. lol)

amen sweez i do see right though it and i am still not happy not at all i am going to say this to my fellow fvs. We want this fixed lets go on strike if this goes live every one needs heals if a buch of healers wont heal turbine will have to listen.

hahhhahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahaha...

heh

wait. you're serious?

O.o

no. Turbine won't have to listen to us. after all the harping on people to "BE SELF SUFFICiENT! HEAL YOUR SELVES...etc etc. all that will really happen is: it will become quickly impossible for favored souls to get into groups because "they won't heal" and all raid healing will only be performed by clerics. none of which Turbine will have to pay an iota of attention to.

seriously.

[Samadhi]

alot of people were saying the wings were fun. zippy zippy around town. fun fun fun.

someone else suggested this change in another topic.

now that it's been given to us... there's still complaining.

*sigh*

*Some* people said that was a very compromise. Many said it was still going way to far. Of course there is still complaining; this isn't rocket science that people had differing opinions before an issue, that they will retain those differing opinions afterwards

[zwiebelring]

Why didn't they think about making it a strategic tool by implementing more feats and/or enhancements to actually let people invest ressources into that fun factor? I clearly want to use the wings like I want to, I would take feats and such for using it. It is THE key feature for FvS like RS is right now for Clerics. Even the bursts got nerfed so yeah, with the wings there is part2 of annoying players.

Every little feature of your character is mainly used for combat in this game so of course something like free wings will be used for tactical advantage. I don't know about the devs. having experience in DnD gaming but with GM experience you always have to assume incombat use of every goddamn thing you are handing out.

Compromising is one good step, perfect was to actually implement replacements and investments for every feature so people have the choice. Right now, with the rebelancing, they still do not.

In the end there were still kiting FvS but they took different feats and spent many APs to be able to do so. make kiting a worthy tier to specialize in. Like many have hagglebots and crafters they now could build up kiters. This alongside with patching up raid AIs as some people suggested could let people have their tactical feeling and still give others some use. Maybe.

[dragon2fire]

NO



yes (maybe? i didn't watch the whole thing. lol)



hahhhahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahaha...

heh

wait. you're serious?

O.o

no. Turbine won't have to listen to us. after all the harping on people to "BE SELF SUFFICiENT! HEAL YOUR SELVES...etc etc. all that will really happen is: it will become quickly impossible for favored souls to get into groups because "they won't heal" and all raid healing will only be performed by clerics. none of which Turbine will have to pay an iota of attention to.

seriously.

Dont know how it is on your server but on mine most groups are waiting on thats right heals. And dont know when the last time you healed was but on my end yes the power gamer is better about not having me baby sit him but most still dont really take care of themselves

[katz]

Dont know how it is on your server but on mine most groups are waiting on thats right heals. And dont know when the last time you healed was but on my end yes the power gamer is better about not having me baby sit him but most still dont really take care of themselves

heh. i was just saying i find it highly amusing that after "healers" complain so loudly that people should be more self sufficient, now some are threatening to withhold heals. i am allowed to find that funny. i never said anything about people actually BECOMING more self sufficient. but, to be fair, reading those threads did help me to become more self aware, and i carry alot more various potions, scrolls, and wands on my various characters than i used to.

and yeah. of course groups wait for heals. always have, always will. now they'll just wait longer, because unless the group leader knows the specific FvS in question, they won't accept one. they're a gamble anyway. ya never know when yer gonna get a "i don't heal, i melee only" Lord of Blades follower.

when was the last time i healed? last night. E Big Top. and the night before that, same quest. before that...HoX, VOD, TOD... Amrath. my character is not private, thus neither is my log. i haven't played my FvS seriously in a little while, tho, because i've been busy leveling up my TR.

i reiterate my stand: refusing to heal will not make Turbine listen. heck sometimes i'm surprised they even listen to most of the rabble on this board. other games i've played sure havn't, and i'mk sure its not much more than a huge headache to them. but no. all your little plan will do is make it more difficult for FvS (like me) to get into groups.

thanks, but no thanks.

[gloopygloop]

You might not be saying "thank you for only taking my finger and not my arm" but we all know you're going to be grateful that they only took your finger and not your arm.

If someone takes my finger, I'm not going to be grateful.

Even my 5 year old knows that I'm not doing him any favors when I say that we're going to eat poison ivy and dirt for dinner and then change my mind and "let" him eat something that he doesn't like instead of making him eat poison ivy and dirt.
(Note: I still go through this process anyway, because it still works on my 3 year old.)

[moops]

Why didn't they think about making it a strategic tool by implementing more feats and/or enhancements to actually let people invest ressources into that fun factor? I clearly want to use the wings like I want to, I would take feats and such for using it. It is THE key feature for FvS like RS is right now for Clerics. Even the bursts got nerfed so yeah, with the wings there is part2 of annoying players.

Every little feature of your character is mainly used for combat in this game so of course something like free wings will be used for tactical advantage. I don't know about the devs. having experience in DnD gaming but with GM experience you always have to assume incombat use of every goddamn thing you are handing out.

Compromising is one good step, perfect was to actually implement replacements and investments for every feature so people have the choice. Right now, with the rebelancing, they still do not.

In the end there were still kiting FvS but they took different feats and spent many APs to be able to do so. make kiting a worthy tier to specialize in. Like many have hagglebots and crafters they now could build up kiters. This alongside with patching up raid AIs as some people suggested could let people have their tactical feeling and still give others some use. Maybe.

Really? The Key Feature? The class is so much more than Wings.

Maybe all the FVS that I meet that use feats to get chest buffing, would invest feats in perma wings--I know that I wouldn't.

[gloopygloop]

Really? The Key Feature? The class is so much more than Wings.

Maybe all the FVS that I meet that use feats to get chest buffing, would invest feats in perma wings--I know that I wouldn't.

I'm thoroughly confused by this post.

1) Are you saying that you know FvS who took all three Dragonmarks of Finding? I sincerely hope that I misread that part.

2) what exactly is "perma wings"?

3) Aside from Wings, DR and free flashlights for Rainbow in the Dark, what else does FvS have to offer that Clerics don't?

[Aashrym]

If someone takes my finger, I'm not going to be grateful.

Even my 5 year old knows that I'm not doing him any favors when I say that we're going to eat poison ivy and dirt for dinner and then change my mind and "let" him eat something that he doesn't like instead of making him eat poison ivy and dirt.
(Note: I still go through this process anyway, because it still works on my 3 year old.)

If you had gangrene and the doctor told you he needed to remove your arm (hand might be more realistic in the example) but when you woke up you found that he was able to save it and only remove a finger I bet you would be grateful for the rest of your hand.

The only difference is whether you choose to accept the reasoning behind the removal or not. At this point changes are being made because the the development team sees a need to remove part of that option. Some players are accepting that need and some are in denial. Either way the dev team still managed to save a bit and that appears to be based on feedback.

[Gunga]

You complain over gifts you get given on birthdays and holidays don't you.

Thanks for the socks, Lelo. They are the best socks I ever got since the last pair of socks you gave me.

I'm the best.

[Thlargir]

If you had gangrene and the doctor told you he needed to remove your arm (hand might be more realistic in the example) but when you woke up you found that he was able to save it and only remove a finger I bet you would be grateful for the rest of your hand.

To extend your own analogy, the nay folks are saying treat the problem with anti-biotics!

[Aashrym]

To extend your own analogy, the nay folks are saying treat the problem with anti-biotics!

If the doctor had a patient I'm sure the patient might say the same thing. The patient would want to keep it all. Unfortunately that isn't always possible.

BB kiting on a FvS was popular before. Now it's BB kiting or DoT kiting. The DoT's hit 1-2k crits with the purple damage per tick after light vulnerability in my experience so I'm not particularly surprised we're seeing some changes, including the change to condemnation. I wouldn't be surprised if we also see a damage drop on divine punishment because light damage is not commonly resisted, which is why force and sonic do lower damage than other energy types.

On topic, I'm not convinced it was just the wings but I know the wings did make kiting a lot easier. I would be fine with the proposed solution or some of the other suggestions. I just wanted to point out the difference perspective can have.

[zwiebelring]

I'm thoroughly confused by this post.

1) Are you saying that you know FvS who took all three Dragonmarks of Finding? I sincerely hope that I misread that part.

2) what exactly is "perma wings"?

3) Aside from Wings, DR and free flashlights for Rainbow in the Dark, what else does FvS have to offer that Clerics don't?

Don't feed trolls.