Paladins and AC

[Thrudh]

if DoS III and Stalwart Defender III are given immunity to the healing curse.

High AC can be 95% immunity

[grodon9999]

High AC can be 95% immunity

it's actually better than that, remember Sulu/Judge need to CONFIRM the critical hit.

[maddmatt70]

I almost think Kensai needs a boost... I used to switch back and forth between Kensai and Stalwart... but I think I'll be sticking with Stalwart a lot more now.

What drivel. If you are a melee build Kensai gives significantly more dps. The problem use to be is many tank builds also stuck with kensai instead of stalwart the pre designed for tank fighter builds, but now with the changes stalwart makes more sense for tank builds. Kensai vs. Stalwart is fairly balanced the issue is more with how weak KOTC and HOTD are for pallys and the bump those need.

I'm excited for the new quests and raids where AC will matter... where people will be looking for AC tanks in the LFMs.

So you say AC will matter but there has been no confirmation and seeing is believing. That AC melee are not desired in so much of the game's content means that players/raid leaders/etc. will try to devise strategies that are workable for non ac personnel. Levelling up and gearing out a character for 5% of the game's content does not make alot of sense so players will inevitably look in another direction.

[Dexxaan]

]...snip... [/COLOR]Levelling up and gearing out a character for 5% of the game's content does not make alot of sense so players will inevitably look in another direction.

Being able to do what everyone else does as a Melee, AND to be Geared/Built/Able to handle that 5% content.... priceless.

.



AC Tanks - The only true "Tanks". The rest..................are just DPS.



.

[Thrudh]

What drivel. If you are a melee build Kensai gives significantly more dps.

Really? Power Surge is +8, while SD stance is +6 STR (plus +6 CON, plus 20% more hps)

Kensai has the favored weapon bonuses and the extra critical range... That's pretty big... so Kensai does do more DPS... But significantly more? In long fights, those extra boosts do make a difference too...

Okay maybe they are pretty balanced... I've always been a fan of dropping a little DPS for more survivability so I'll definitely be going with the SD...

So you say AC will matter but there has been no confirmation and seeing is believing. That AC melee are not desired in so much of the game's content means that players/raid leaders/etc. will try to devise strategies that are workable for non ac personnel.

Yeah, you're probably right.. but the good ones will use the rare AC tank when he does show up... Just like good ToD leaders take advantage of having an AC tank in the group and the bad ones continue to use a meatbag barbarian because that's "what we've always done"

Hopefully you're one of the good leaders. But you're right that there won't be any LFMs for AC guys... I'll just be happy if the occasional leader recognizes how lucky he is to have me in his group.

Levelling up and gearing out a character for 5% of the game's content does not make alot of sense so players will inevitably look in another direction.

Pretty easy to switch gear to DPS mode, and the DPS from a SD is definitely good enough for 99% of the game.

After all, most power-gamers gear out for just 1% of the games content... Don't need max DPS with epic items to complete the other 99%, you know.

[Thrudh]

Being able to do what everyone else does as a Melee, AND to be Geared/Built/Able to handle that 5% content.... priceless.

Exactly.... I like having a character that stands out... and that can do more than one thing.

[CanuckWisdom]

A completely different item from a p2p pack not everyone has is not the same as a upgrade to Chaosgaurd. So, Chaos gaurd is not getting upgraded?

And is the other item not already out? I thought it came with u10.

[sephiroth1084]

A completely different item from a p2p pack not everyone has is not the same as a upgrade to Chaosgaurd. So, Chaos gaurd is not getting upgraded?
.

What does the pack that drops the new +2 Dodge bracers being P2P have to do with their being an upgrade from the Chaosgardes? I should have said "from" rather than "to" I guess, but my meaning was that we've had a rather vanilla +2 Dodge item in that slot without any real replacement for a long time. The Mabar cloak offers the bonus, but is harder to acquire (being only available certain times of the year), and has some wonky effects when tanking some monsters. Plus, it's in a different slot, and requires a major revision of equipment to fit it in.

We may (do?) have the option to Cannith craft a +2 Dodge item, but I don't know much at all about the crafting system.

Chaosgarde: +2 Dodge
Bracelet of Tharaak: +2 Dodge and Toughness

Looks like an upgrade to me.

[CanuckWisdom]

Im not sure now if I misread or what.

Its a better bracer yes, I would like to get my hands on it. But is it replacing chaosgaurde? Or is it a different item entirely?

Not having the pack it drops in means you cant get it. Sorry if I sounded snippy, but I got excited that chaosgaurds were getting a bonus, but when I realized what you meant, it made me sad and angry that you would 'deceive' me

[sirgog]

Even before the changes, that attitude was somewhat incorrect... Even now, before U11, I laugh when raid leaders pick half-orc barbarians to tank Suulo in ToD instead of my AC fighter...

I point out that Suulo can only hit me on a 20, and I can heal myself... Almost no resources used when I tank Suulo... Some leaders can see the wisdom of that... Others insist on putting their guild barbarian on Suulo, where he constantly gets hit and cursed, and the cleric has to work hard to keep him alive, especially when two curses hit back-to-back.

After U11, I'll be even more powerful with untouchable AC, and hit points only 10% below a barbarian instead of 30% below.

But I'm sure party leaders will still pick the barbarian to tank most of the time... Old habits die hard.

There's lots of people that lead a raid, but have no idea what they are doing.

Looks like the U11 raids might be too hard for them to beat any more.

[Thrudh]

The Mabar cloak offers the bonus, but is harder to acquire (being only available certain times of the year), and has some wonky effects when tanking some monsters.

What wonky effects? I was planning on getting that cloak this year.

[Angelus_dead]

What wonky effects? I was planning on getting that cloak this year.

The cloak turns you invisible, which is often a great additional defense, but can cause some monsters to hit other people instead of you.

[sephiroth1084]

Im not sure now if I misread or what.

Its a better bracer yes, I would like to get my hands on it. But is it replacing chaosgaurde? Or is it a different item entirely?

Not having the pack it drops in means you cant get it. Sorry if I sounded snippy, but I got excited that chaosgaurds were getting a bonus, but when I realized what you meant, it made me sad and angry that you would 'deceive' me

Yeah, sorry about that.

It is a completely different item.

The cloak turns you invisible, which is often a great additional defense, but can cause some monsters to hit other people instead of you.

This.

[LeLoric]

Yeah, sorry about that.

It is a completely different item.

This.

Not only that but your better off going cloak for abashai 3 pc versus bracers as the effects on cloak are more beneficial.

[sephiroth1084]

Not only that but your better off going cloak for abashai 3 pc versus bracers as the effects on cloak are more beneficial.

Don't get me started on cloaks for an AC character!

[grodon9999]

Don't get me started on cloaks for an AC character!

Or Gloves, I just can't see myself Shelving Gloves of the Claw. Even for 3 points of AC.

Though right now we have an effective AC of 90 in this game with Elite Horoth being the benchmark. I'm still not sure we're gonna see the LoB AC tanked unless those to-hits are lowered to the point that it's feasible. We're gonna need to run that raid on epic to gets the ubb3r l00tz and any best strategy we come up with as a best practice needs to work on all difficulty levels.

[grodon9999]

Looks like the U11 raids might be too hard for them to beat any more.

Good.

[grodon9999]

Quick question. Why, after all these years, are people starting to think about creating "AC Tanks" when they have been considered too hard to grind out gear for, useless, can't create dps, useless in epics etc?

I've got another answer for this . . . the puzzle.

Making a full-****** DPS-ape is easy. Max-STR, Khopesh or ESoS, the gear's pretty much figured out for you. Easy, one-dimensional, few options.

A toon that' gives you something more than just that for some of us is just more fun to build, there are more viable options to reaching the defense goal and it's more fun to weigh options and build accordingly. The game withing the game is more interesting.

[lord_of_rage]

I've got another answer for this . . . the puzzle.

Making a full-****** DPS-ape is easy. Max-STR, Khopesh or ESoS, the gear's pretty much figured out for you. Easy, one-dimensional, few options.

A toon that' gives you something more than just that for some of us is just more fun to build, there are more viable options to reaching the defense goal and it's more fun to weigh options and build accordingly. The game withing the game is more interesting.

Well said brother well said. +1

[NaturalHazard]

Even before the changes, that attitude was somewhat incorrect... Even now, before U11, I laugh when raid leaders pick half-orc barbarians to tank Suulo in ToD instead of my AC fighter...

I point out that Suulo can only hit me on a 20, and I can heal myself... Almost no resources used when I tank Suulo... Some leaders can see the wisdom of that... Others insist on putting their guild barbarian on Suulo, where he constantly gets hit and cursed, and the cleric has to work hard to keep him alive, especially when two curses hit back-to-back.

After U11, I'll be even more powerful with untouchable AC, and hit points only 10% below a barbarian instead of 30% below.

But I'm sure party leaders will still pick the barbarian to tank most of the time... Old habits die hard.

Some people are just.............. I guess its not so bad when its the guilds healer who has to take care of all that extra workI feel really sorry for them esp when theres a good ac tank option. Though most people ive seen wont even go to vod or tod without a warforged tank, its like some sort of religious doctrine for them, it works well, but sometimes there isnt a warforged tank around and people get tired of waiting. Then someone says hey I can AC tank suulo, done it before many times on this toon, then people start jumping down his throat, zomg!! we need a warforged!! its impossible without a warforged!!

But if im healing and I know theres a much better tank option thats going to be much easyier on my resources I will be vocal about it.