Saving a trainwreck?

[Doomwafflez]

Ummm soooo yeaahhh this was basically a build i came up with in my head, and i think it ended up turning into a trainwreck and im wondering if anyone can give me some advice to make it atleast average,

Basically what i was thinking in my head was that i could have a completely self-reliable toon if i were to roll a FvS/Rogue/Fighter 17/2/1, i was thinking that with only 2 points into rogue i could raise my Disable, pick lock, search, and spot, and i was also thinking that the extra sneak attack damage would be nice, ontop of me being able to heal and buff myself with FvS. fighter was just for the extra feat so i could fit in toughness. this build is focused primarily on meleeing with TWF Dual Longswords. I dont have 32 pt builds, tomes, or anything special at all.

heres my build as of now, any advice for future levels would be appreciated

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 4 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 2 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 78
Spell Points: 252 
BAB: 2\2
Fortitude: 5
Reflex: 8
Will: 3

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 4)            (Level 4)
Strength             15                 16                   16
Dexterity            16                 16                   16
Constitution         10                 10                   10
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom               10                 10                   10
Charisma             14                 14                   14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 4)           (Level 4)
Balance               3                  3                    3
Bluff                 2                  2                    2
Concentration         0                  0                    0
Diplomacy             2                  2                    2
Disable Device        3                  4                    4
Haggle                2                  2                    2
Heal                  0                  0                    0
Hide                  7                  7                    7
Intimidate            2                  2                    2
Jump                  2                  3                    3
Listen                0                  0                    0
Move Silently         7                  7                    7
Open Lock             7                  7                    7
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                 -1                   -1
Search                3                  4                    5
Spot                  4                  5                    5
Swim                  2                  3                    3
Tumble                7                  7                    7
Use Magic Device      6                  6                    6

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Search I


Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Spell (1): Summon Monster I
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I


Level 4 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Spot (+1)
Spell (1): Command
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I

[Doxmaster]

Get more con. Build=usable.

[Victor_1]

Some quick thoughts, assuming you don't mind rerolling.

Any particular reason to stick with FvS instead of cleric?
By going 17lv of FvS, you won't have Lv9 spell at level cap. This causes serious disadvantage for healing.
If you are 100% sure you are capable of raid healing w/o mass heal, then it shouldn't be problem.
But otherwise, I strongly recommend you to keep at least 18lv of FvS, or replace FvS level to cleric level.

Trap capability is more like all or nothing. If you cannot afford INT to maxout seach&DD, then you'd better to forget about it.

Finally, on the status distribution and feat selection wise, you should give up TWF style if you haven't unlocked 32pt build yet.
You needs more con, 10 con is just too low for the character with melee capability. Try to fit in at least 14 con, preferably 16 if you can afford it.

That being said, if you really wish to have self-reliable character as 28pt, I'd consider using THF bard/rogue type of multiclas.

[Doomwafflez]

Well the reason i went FvS over cleric is cause i keep hearing how FvS do more damage, and have tons more SP
That and i think the FvS class is a fun class to play, I sorta guessed that i would struggle with a build like this, because theres so many stats to focus on, it would be a hard build to get to work, and im not really good at build to begin with, but i felt it was worth a try, Thanks for the advice, any more advice you have would also be appreciated

[Perspicacity]

IF you goal is a mix of DPS self healing and trapping then I'd suggest a WF 18 wiz / 2 rogue. I have one and it's great all the way up. Insightful dodge + evasion ftw. Max int max con, 1st level of rogue at level 1, second at level 14, rest all wiz and you can't go wrong. Your spell pen might take a tiny hit but its nothing you cant work around.

Also you might want to try artificer when it comes out. It's very resource management intensive but if you can find an equilibrium you can be death on wheels, do any trap or lock you can find (and you'll find them all) and have buffs and heals for yourself and maybe a few party members plus you can summon a fighter at will at an equal level to your self. You even get blade barrier so you can still pretend your a Fav Soul :P!

last The build your going for would, as previously mentioned, work better as a cleric 18 / rogue 2. Once you get blade barrier your machinations of 2HFing will fall by the way side as you will find it's unnecessary.

And for the love of peat max out your con man! CON IS NEVER A DUMP STAT. There is no build in the game that can survive with a 10 con. This is coming from someone who has a 20 Drow bard with a 6 con base and is now diverting all his resources to getting a heart of wood to TR as soon as possible. Learn from my noobness, no mater what build or race you make minimum 16 con is the rule.

[Doomwafflez]

IF you goal is a mix of DPS self healing and trapping then I'd suggest a WF 18 wiz / 2 rogue. I have one and it's great all the way up. Insightful dodge + evasion ftw. Max int max con, 1st level of rogue at level 1, second at level 14, rest all wiz and you can't go wrong. Your spell pen might take a tiny hit but its nothing you cant work around.

Also you might want to try artificer when it comes out. It's very resource management intensive but if you can find an equilibrium you can be death on wheels, do any trap or lock you can find (and you'll find them all) and have buffs and heals for yourself and maybe a few party members plus you can summon a fighter at will at an equal level to your self. You even get blade barrier so you can still pretend your a Fav Soul :P!

last The build your going for would, as previously mentioned, work better as a cleric 18 / rogue 2. Once you get blade barrier your machinations of 2HFing will fall by the way side as you will find it's unnecessary.

And for the love of peat max out your con man! CON IS NEVER A DUMP STAT. There is no build in the game that can survive with a 10 con. This is coming from someone who has a 20 Drow bard with a 6 con base and is now diverting all his resources to getting a heart of wood to TR as soon as possible. Learn from my noobness, no mater what build or race you make minimum 16 con is the rule.

I would actually do that, but sadly i dont have warforged unlocked, :/

[unbongwah]

I would actually do that, but sadly i dont have warforged unlocked, :/

You could try a human wiz 18 / rogue 2 Pale Master; not quite as survivable as WF initially, but pretty dang self-sufficient once you get undead forms. EDIT: and plenty of skill pts for those trap skills you seem to want. Not usually a melee-focused build, though.

I'm not fond of mixing trapmonkey with clerics / FvSs on 28-pt untwinked builds: you wind up wasting a lot of build pts on INT (and possibly take extra lvls of rogue) to beef up skills for what's a relatively minor part of DDO; and usually end up gimping the important parts of your char, namely spellcasting (and possibly melee if going BC). Rogue / bard is a better combo IMHO if you don't want a rogue / wiz and / or want to be a melee-focused spell-casting trapmonkey all at once.

[aristarchus1000]

You could try a human wiz 18 / rogue 2 Pale Master; not quite as survivable as WF initially, but pretty dang self-sufficient once you get undead forms. EDIT: and plenty of skill pts for those trap skills you seem to want. Not usually a melee-focused build, though.

I'm not fond of mixing trapmonkey with clerics / FvSs on 28-pt untwinked builds: you wind up wasting a lot of build pts on INT (and possibly take extra lvls of rogue) to beef up skills for what's a relatively minor part of DDO; and usually end up gimping the important parts of your char, namely spellcasting (and possibly melee if going BC). Rogue / bard is a better combo IMHO if you don't want a rogue / wiz and / or want to be a melee-focused spell-casting trapmonkey all at once.

Good advice here, and well said. I've been trying to say this advice in a few threads.

Divine casters only get 2 skillpoints per level, and would usually dump intelligence, so mixing in rogue skills into it is hard, and doesn't synergize particularly well. Therefore trying to do it on a 28 pt build is dangerously close to gimpiness.

My advice would be to got rogue/wiz with palemaster if you don't have WF. You can get undead forms at level 6 and self-healing at level 7 (death aura, and negative burst) which is nice, and since you will have high intelligence anyway, investing in rogue skills doesn't sacrifice your build nearly as much.

If you would rather go melee, I think rogue/ranger or rogue/bard are you best bet. Both classes get 4 skillpoints per level which makes it so you don't need quite as high of an intelligence to start. Both the ranger and bard can heal themselves quite nicely with wands.

[Doomwafflez]

Hmm, Actually, would it be any better to start of with the stats:

STR:15
DEX:8
CON:14
INT:14
WIS:10
CHA:14

I could dump all the TWF feats and go with THF, would mean one less stat for me to increase, but then my AC would be a bit lower.

[Mrmorphling]

Hmm, Actually, would it be any better to start of with the stats:

STR:15
DEX:8
CON:14
INT:14
WIS:10
CHA:14

I could dump all the TWF feats and go with THF, would mean one less stat for me to increase, but then my AC would be a bit lower.

Don't worry about AC, it is absolutely meaningless after like lvl 10 unless you specifically build for it and a FVS hybrid isn't the pinnacle of AC :P.

Stat wise i would drop wis to 8 and cha to 10/12 as you'll never have a meaningfull DC on your spell (so WIS has to be dumped) and you only need 18CHA end game to cast lvl 8 spells (or if you decide to change your split 19CHA) so 10 +2tome+6item will do 18 and eventually 1 from AP to reach 19; if you don't plan to use a tome 12 will do; with the saved points up STR as you'll need each bracket to do decent dmg or even 16CON as you prefer.

[morticianjohn]

lvl 4 is 50k XP.

lvl 20 is 1.9 Mil

If you're not liking the build right now then you likely won't like it much later.

You can make this work if you really want to but, I think most will recommend a reroll on this toon.

[Therigar]

Basically what i was thinking in my head was that i could have a completely self-reliable toon if i were to roll a FvS/Rogue/Fighter 17/2/1, i was thinking that with only 2 points into rogue i could raise my Disable, pick lock, search, and spot, and i was also thinking that the extra sneak attack damage would be nice, ontop of me being able to heal and buff myself with FvS. fighter was just for the extra feat so i could fit in toughness. this build is focused primarily on meleeing with TWF Dual Longswords.

Dual longswords is the first of many questionable choices. Is there some particular reason you wanted to use longswords? The longsword is one of the worst weapon choices in DDO. If you are going to build around this weapon you should have some really good reason.

Two other things. I agree with the advice to not TWF. And, I would dump CHA down to 10 and use the 4 build points to continue to boost other stats.

By switching to THF and dumping CHA to 10 you can focus on 3 stats -- STR, CON and INT. You only need enough INT to keep key rogue skills maxed -- Search and DD -- and to keep Concentration up. After that any extra INT for more skill points is good but not overly important. 16 STR 8 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 8 WIS and 10 CHA on a 28 point build. Stat increases at level up into STR, human stat enhancements into STR and CHA, FvS stat enhancements in both WIS and CHA. Projected end stats w/o tomes or gear 22 STR 8 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 10 WIS and 14 CHA.

It is very tight but workable.

I would not be over concerned about losing out on L9 spells. You are not a healing build -- or should not be. The intent is a self-contained build able to self heal, self buff, melee and deal with traps as needed. Spell selection should reflect that and use of mass heal isn't consistent with the build concept. So, I would ignore those concerns. A supplemental Mass Cure Moderate Wounds or targeted Heal is about the limit of what I'd be carrying.

For my primary weapon I would go with falchion. It has a high threat range that compensates for its lower crit multiplier. You can switch out to epic Sword of Shadows if you ever get one. Otherwise the falchion gives you the most bang for a THF weapon. Try to get or craft weapons that have "on critical" effects. Keep in mind that these proc even if a target is crit immune.

Don't forget the spells that abbreviate DP -- Divine Power and Divine Punishment are going to be the keys to making the build work. After that it is all about the HP and DPS -- so CON and STR are more important than your other stats.

[Doomwafflez]

Dual longswords is the first of many questionable choices. Is there some particular reason you wanted to use longswords? The longsword is one of the worst weapon choices in DDO. If you are going to build around this weapon you should have some really good reason.

Well i was going with LS cause of the FvS Sovereign Host, was that a mistake? O.o

Two other things. I agree with the advice to not TWF. And, I would dump CHA down to 10 and use the 4 build points to continue to boost other stats.

By switching to THF and dumping CHA to 10 you can focus on 3 stats -- STR, CON and INT. You only need enough INT to keep key rogue skills maxed -- Search and DD -- and to keep Concentration up. After that any extra INT for more skill points is good but not overly important. 16 STR 8 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 8 WIS and 10 CHA on a 28 point build. Stat increases at level up into STR, human stat enhancements into STR and CHA, FvS stat enhancements in both WIS and CHA. Projected end stats w/o tomes or gear 22 STR 8 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 10 WIS and 14 CHA.

It is very tight but workable.

I would not be over concerned about losing out on L9 spells. You are not a healing build -- or should not be. The intent is a self-contained build able to self heal, self buff, melee and deal with traps as needed. Spell selection should reflect that and use of mass heal isn't consistent with the build concept. So, I would ignore those concerns. A supplemental Mass Cure Moderate Wounds or targeted Heal is about the limit of what I'd be carrying.

For my primary weapon I would go with falchion. It has a high threat range that compensates for its lower crit multiplier. You can switch out to epic Sword of Shadows if you ever get one. Otherwise the falchion gives you the most bang for a THF weapon. Try to get or craft weapons that have "on critical" effects. Keep in mind that these proc even if a target is crit immune.

Lol i was actually thinking about going greatswords but then i figured out that you have to be WF to get lord of blades, which kinda sucks, my second thought was to roll with falchions

Don't forget the spells that abbreviate DP -- Divine Power and Divine Punishment are going to be the keys to making the build work. After that it is all about the HP and DPS -- so CON and STR are more important than your other stats.

Excuse my noobiness... but what is Divine Power and Divine Punishment <.<

my replies in bold & underline...cuz thats all i know how to do xD

[Therigar]

my replies in bold & underline...cuz thats all i know how to do xD

Divine Power lets you attack at full BAB -- meaning your basic attack sequence and basic to hit numbers are just the same as any other fighter/barbarian/etc. Normally clerics/FvS are 3/4 BAB so attack fewer times and with lower to-hit numbers. With Divine Power they are right up there with the other melee characters -- at least to start. Obviously things like STR and class enhancements and feats can change that.

Divine Punishment is a damage over time spell that can stack up to 3 times on a target and that will do damage every few seconds. It is a spell you will spam like a mad man on your primary target once you get it.

Longswords are bad. Falchions are good.

[The_Brave2]

Any one else think of Source Code when they read the name of this thread?

On Topic: you can start with 11 base CHA and still cast all FVS spells with a +CHA item. Going mele build will work with Human which is what I would suggest. Using a Falchion or the Greatsword will both work well. However, I would not suggest too deeply multiclassing FVS with other classes, just a 2fighter splash will give you all the mele capability that you need, you don't even necessarily need that. Having a FVS that cannot heal more than just himself is counterproductive if you ever want to group.

Other than that, most of the other advice is valid.

[Doomwafflez]

Alright well, i built it up to level 20, tell me what you think, i THOUGHT about going with sneak attack and all that, but raising hide & move silently were hard :/

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(4 Rogue \ 16 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 314
Spell Points: 1460 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 13
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement/Equipment
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    28
Dexterity             8                     14
Constitution         16                    23
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                8                     15
Charisma             10                    14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     5
Bluff                 0                     2
Concentration         5                     8.5
Diplomacy             0                     2
Disable Device        6                    27
Haggle                4                     6
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     8
Intimidate            0                     2
Jump                  3                     5
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             3                     3
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                6                    27
Spot                  3                    24
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                3                     3
Use Magic Device      4                     8

{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Lightning Guard Mithral Chain Shirt of Wizardry III \par Ogre Power Bracers \par Gnawed Ring \par Kyosho's Ring \par Boots of Striding and Springing \par Gloves of the Falcon \par Vorne's Belt \par Cloak of the Zephyr \par Shimmering Arrowhead \par Troubleshooter's Necklace \par Troubleshooter's Goggles \par Shining Crest of St. Markus \par +5 Acid Burst Metalline Falchion of Pure Good \par Dexterous Gloves of Disabling \par Feather Falling Boots of Springing \par  \par Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Falchion
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I


Level 4 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I


Level 5 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Rogue Cold Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 7 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic III


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III


Level 11 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma II


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III


Level 13 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Cold
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I


Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness IV


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic IV


Level 16 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion IV


Level 17 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Electric Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Sonic Trap Lore I


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life I


Level 19 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Search II
Enhancement: Improved Spot II

[Doomwafflez]

Cant wait till i get drow, i think drow would improve this build alot, :0
Dont FvS get a Rapier Specilization if you roll drow? Follower of Vulkoor or something like that,

[aristarchus1000]

Cant wait till i get drow, i think drow would improve this build alot, :0
Dont FvS get a Rapier Specilization if you roll drow? Follower of Vulkoor or something like that,

shortsword.

I personally think Drow is a trap race. It lures you with the idea of having a "32 point" build but it dumps Con, so it is usually not worth it. Furthermore, unlike any other race, you cannot upgrade it later to a proper 32 point build without using a True Reincarnate and starting over.

I think you will be unhappy with this build... Favored Souls don't multi-class very well as a whole, and particularly with rogues and trap skills. In general and particularly with favored souls, if you try to do too much you end up being bad at everything.

I think the cleric option is better, particularly since you don't lose access to level 9 spells, and you have more spell slots for a non-pure class. Furthermore, you can use Radiant Bursts, which provide at least as much if not more healing than what a non-pure Favored Soul can offer.

[Doomwafflez]

Alright, Ill make a cleric version of this build and post it.

[Hadrian]

If your goal is to be self reliant and not to be a group healer, why not go with paladin/rogue?

As a paladin, your saves will be high enough to take advantage of evasion even if your dexterity isn't very high. You can choose THF if you want to save on your starting attributes with a 28-point build. It will be less DPS than TWF until you get to the very high end gear, but your original build seems to need all 6 attributes. Thats rough as a 28-pointer.

The downside is that your damage will not be that great against things that KotC does not affect.