Archer Build

[Deanarth]

This is my first draft of a build I'd like to take for my first TR. Just wanting a critique of it. I haven't done enhancements quite yet on it, but I know I plan on the Arcane Archer series, as well as Assassin I (maybe Mechanic I instead).

Couple notes about it. It's a first TR, so 34 point build. I want to get a Ranger past life out of it. Depending on how fun it is, I'm not sure if I'll instantly TR again or play at cap for abit. While I want a ranged build, I know I'll be meleeing as well, so I plan on using Scimitars, not Khopeshes (I've got a collection already). Also please remember first draft, so I know I've probably missed something. I'll work out enhancements next.

Elf Ranger 12 Rogue 6 Fighter 2

Starting stats: Str 14, Dex 18 (20),Con 16 (14), Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 8 [All level ups into Dex]

1) Rogue 1 – Point Blank Shot [Search 4, Spot 4, UMD 4, Disable Device 4, Tumble 1, Balance 4, Open Lock 4, Jump 3, Listen 4]
2) Ranger 1 – Favored Enemy [Evil Ousider] [Search 1, Spot 1, UMD 1.0, Listen 1, Jump 1]
3) Ranger 2 – WF: Range [Search 1, Spot 1, UMD 1.0, Listen 1, Jump 1]
4) Rogue 2 – [UMD 1, Disable Device 3, Search 1, Open Lock 3]
5) Ranger 3 [UMD 1.0, Search 1, Disable Device 1.0, Open Lock .5]
6) Ranger 4 – Mental Toughness [UMD 1.0, Search 1, Disable Device 1.0, Open Lock .5]
7) Ranger 5 – Favored Enemy [Undead] [UMD 1.0 , Search 1, Disable Device 1.0, Open Lock .5]
8) Ranger 6 – [UMD 1.0, Search 1, Disable Device 1.0, Open Lock .5]
9) Ranger 7 – Imp. Crit [Range] [UMD 1.0, Search 1, Disable Device 1.0, Open Lock .5]
10) Ranger 8 – Favored Enemy [Aberrations] [UMD 1.0, Search 1, Disable Device 1.0, Open Lock .5]
11) Ranger 9 – [UMD 1.0, Search 1, Disable Device 1.0, Open Lock .5]
12) Ranger 10 – Toughness [UMD 1.0, Search 1, Disable Device 1.0, Open Lock .5]
13) Ranger 11– [UMD 1.0, Search 1, Disable Device 1.0, Open Lock .5]
14) Ranger 12 – [UMD 1.0, Search 1, Disable Device 1.0, Open Lock .5]
15) Rogue 3 – WF [Slash] [UMD 1, Search 1, Disable Device 1, Open Lock 5]
16) Fighter 1 – Imp. Crit [Slash] [Jump 2]
17) Fighter 2 – Power Attack [Jump 2]
18) Rogue 4 – Skill Focus [UMD] [UMD 2, Search 3, Disable Device 3]
19) Rogue 5 – [UMD 2, Search 1, Disable Device 1, Open Lock 4]
20) Rogue 6 – [UMD 1, Search 1, Disable Device 1, Open Lock 2, Balance 2]

Skill Rank Totals
UMD 23, Search 23, Disable Device 23, Open Lock 23, Balance 6, Jump 9, Spot 6, Listen 6, Tumble 1

[Deanarth]

bump

[karl_k0ch]

You can't wait 90 minutes for a reply on a forum where this thread is the third thread from the top at the time you made your bump?

Due to unforseen incidents, the arrival of my substancial reply will be delayed by a day or two.

[Deanarth]

The time difference is 104 minutes.

The post at time of bump was not on the list.

And you have nothing better to troll the impatient guy?

[karl_k0ch]

Ok, some first ideas:

• Why 12 Ranger levels, and not 11?
• Are you sure you want to go Dex-based and not Str-based? On an Elf, 16 Con is a sizable investment. I'd rather go 16 Str, 18 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 8 Wis, 8 Cha. Or dump int to 9, use a +1 tome, and take 19 Dex.
• Are you sure there is nothing better than WF: Slash ?
• My favorite FE order is: Undead; one of: Construct, Giant, Elemental; Evil outsider.
• Toughness at 10 is rather late. I'd prefer to squeeze in a Fighter level between the ranger levels 6 and 11 to have a free feat earlier on.

[Emizand]

Why 12 Ranger levels, and not 11?

I assume DWS II!

[Deanarth]

Ok, some first ideas:

• Why 12 Ranger levels, and not 11?
• Are you sure you want to go Str-based and not dex? On an Elf, 16 Con is a sizable investment. I'd rather go 16 Str, 18 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 8 Wis, 8 Cha. Or dump int to 9, use a +1 tome, and take 19 Dex.
• Are you sure there is nothing better than WF: Slash ?
• My favorite FE order is: Undead; one of: Construct, Giant, Elemental; Evil outsider.
• Toughness at 10 is rather late. I'd prefer to squeeze in a Fighter level between the ranger levels 6 and 11 to have a free feat earlier on.

Main reason for lvl 12 was the feats. That's an additional +1 to all 3 at level 12. More than willing to put in another class (also slighly more SP I believe). With another level of Rogue that'd be more sneak attack and skill points, true. I did think about going 8 rogue for improved uncanny dodge and only one level of fighter as well, but thought the extra feat and HP might be better.

Not sure what you mean by Strength based. I can see the benefit of the stat point array you have listed though. And can tome it up for dex.

I was going by other builds for the WF: Slash. If I changed the class setup slightly could easily lose it.

FE Undead would be more useful leveling, especially at the early levels, just chose Evil Outsider as that seems to be the standby for endgame.

Fitting in the fighter level 3rd wouldn't be too much issue, or any point after that, probably. Could probably manage it.

Also I apologzie for the troll comment and would like to say thank you for the advice. Had kinda lost track of time and thought it had been much later when I made the bump (not to mention only 10 views at that point, lol). Was surprised by the short timespan after I read your post.

[Deanarth]

I assume DWS II!

Didn't think you could take DWS and AA at the same time. Am I wrong on this?

[Emizand]

Didn't think you could take DWS and AA at the same time. Am I wrong on this?

No you are correct, I failed to read post completely. Sorry.

[karl_k0ch]

Not sure what you mean by Strength based. I can see the benefit of the stat point array you have listed though. And can tome it up for dex.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I mixed it up. The question I wanted to ask was:

Are you sure you want to go Dex-based and not Str-base? Ie leave Dex high, but put level up points in str.

While 12 Ranger gives +1 to all saves, I value the additional sneak attack die and the enhancements (eg Haste Boost III and Sneak Attack Training) higher than this bonus to saves. If you still want to maintain this, consider to go 12/7/1.
And just to be clear: I wasn't proposing to take an additional Fgt level, but to take one of the two a bit earlier.

Yeah, Undead are useful early, and EO shine only at high levels. This was why I was proposing a different order. Abberation is a decent choice, too.

Also I apologzie for the troll comment and would like to say thank you for the advice.

np. Sorry for the teasing.

[Deanarth]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I mixed it up. The question I wanted to ask was:

Are you sure you want to go Dex-based and not Str-base? Ie leave Dex high, but put level up points in str.

While 12 Ranger gives +1 to all saves, I value the additional sneak attack die and the enhancements (eg Haste Boost III and Sneak Attack Training) higher than this bonus to saves. If you still want to maintain this, consider to go 12/7/1.
And just to be clear: I wasn't proposing to take an additional Fgt level, but to take one of the two a bit earlier.

Yeah, Undead are useful early, and EO shine only at high levels. This was why I was proposing a different order. Abberation is a decent choice, too.


np. Sorry for the teasing.

When trying to put this together I saw that builds varied on Str and Dex in that regards. I guess I'd ask how well would the to hit would be in such a scenario for range from experience?

Enhancements have always been a little tricky for me, and don't have access to a character builder for 'em atm. Checked out the Rogue 7 enhancements and see where you're coming from. Comparing 12/7/1 to 11/7/2 now. Looks like 2HP, fighter Str I, and a feat vs. +1 all saves, 4 more skill points, 15 SP and another 3rd lvl ranger spell. Tough call.

[Deanarth]

Here's a revised draft of my build with enhancments taking into account given advice. How does that look? I'll probably be able to come up with a few more tomes than the +2 dex one, but I know I have it for sure.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Daedri d'Xzaral
Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
(2 Fighter \ 7 Rogue \ 11 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 270 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 19
Will: 4

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity            18                    24
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               8                    30
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        5                    24
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  8                    15
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  7                    17
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         8                    15
Open Lock             8                    30
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                5                    26
Spot                  2                     7
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                5                     8
Use Magic Device      3                    25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 8 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

[SpearKicker]

Here's a revised draft of my build with enhancments taking into account given advice. How does that look? I'll probably be able to come up with a few more tomes than the +2 dex one, but I know I have it for sure.

...

Just took a quick look at it. i would change the level you got FE: Aberration for FE: Evil Outsider. I think at early levels is more probable you to face aberration than evil outsiders.

Also, I dont find Sprint Boost 2 all that usefull. If there is something else you could get yous should. Sprint Boost 1 on the other hand is very nice to have.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Why so many ranger levels? How long do you plan to spend at level 20 before TR'ing for the Ranger PL?

How about mixing in some monk levels?

Perhaps 6 ranger / 6 monk / 6 fighter with rogue dilettante on a half-elf. Then you can take your last 2 levels as ranger for the PL.

Zen Archery is needed.
16, 16, 14, 10, 14, 8 or something. 1 level up into dexterity for IPS, rest into strength.

Just an idea, anyway.

Good luck,
Wowo

[CanuckWisdom]

I admit I didnt take a detailed look at your build, and I may be wrong about this, BUT... If your planning on being an AA, and only taking 11 levels of ranger and no arcane caster levels, you wont get the full line of ranger AA enhancements and the elven ones wont be available.

Or am I missing something?

[karl_k0ch]

I admit I didnt take a detailed look at your build, and I may be wrong about this, BUT... If your planning on being an AA, and only taking 11 levels of ranger and no arcane caster levels, you wont get the full line of ranger AA enhancements and the elven ones wont be available.

Or am I missing something?

Why should the elven ones not be available? In DDO, AA does not require Arcane Caster levels, but merely any caster levels, as silly as this may sound.

[Deanarth]

I admit I didnt take a detailed look at your build, and I may be wrong about this, BUT... If your planning on being an AA, and only taking 11 levels of ranger and no arcane caster levels, you wont get the full line of ranger AA enhancements and the elven ones wont be available.

Or am I missing something?

When I was planning this build with the builder (with enhancements), I found that the ranger arcane archer vs. elven arcane archer were indeed different and didn't work together (not sure if it's that way in game). My plan with this build is Elven arcane Archer, which means I won't have it until lvl 8.

Why so many ranger levels? How long do you plan to spend at level 20 before TR'ing for the Ranger PL?

How about mixing in some monk levels?

Perhaps 6 ranger / 6 monk / 6 fighter with rogue dilettante on a half-elf. Then you can take your last 2 levels as ranger for the PL.

Zen Archery is needed.
16, 16, 14, 10, 14, 8 or something. 1 level up into dexterity for IPS, rest into strength.

Just an idea, anyway.

Good luck,
Wowo

I took Rogue for the traps ability, something I wanted to be able to do.

[blerkington]

Hi,

My elf ranger is on his third life using a very similar build (Ra 11/Ro 7/Fi 2), and when I TR him I will use it again with a little bit of tweaking. I've tried a few different builds, but found this one to be effective and a lot of fun to play, both on the way up and especially at cap.

I did the levelling order differently, so I could get more feats early on, while still keeping my trap skills up. Ro 1, Ra 2, Fi 3, Ra 4-8, Fi 9, Ra 10-14, Ro 15-20 seemed to work well. Our starting stats are pretty similar.

My feat selections are pretty similar to yours too; 1 Toughness, 3 WF Ranged and PB shot, 6 Mental toughness, 9 IC ranged and piercing, 12 OTWF, 15 Empower healing, 18 Power attack.

I'm still not sure about emp healing; may take toughness or extend instead. Even with an SP item so you have the capacity, recasting buffs every 11 min is a pain, and makes you less useful helping out the party with resist energy than a pure or mostly pure ranger is. Be prepared for raid groups to ask you to cast resists, and to explain why you can't cast FoM.

Your self healing with spells will be a bit weaker as well, but heal scrolls via UMD and SF potions can make up for that.You can also use the same tricks as a cleric to make your healing spells better; at the moment my DT vestments are slotted with a potency rune to make my CMW less pathetic.

The only other comment I'd make is that gearing a toon like this to make best use of all your abilities can be difficult, especially if you're like me and don't like swapping your gear all the time for different tasks. But it can be done, without making major compromises.

I'd also strongly recommend a Radiance 2 melee weapon - being able to hit for sneak attack damage even when you have aggro, and having the mobs miss you due to blindness is really great.

Lastly, I hope you don't have the impression that I'm telling you how to do your build. You seem to have a good idea of what you want and how to do it. I'm still learning how to do this, and my build is a work in progress. What I have noticed that if you pay careful attention to your levelling order, you can avoid wasting skill points while keeping key skills at level, and get your most important feats sooner rather than later.

So good luck with it, and maybe we'll run into each other on Khyber sometime.

[Krinn83]

Planning a similar build as well.
AA delayed to level 9 to maximize rogue skills. The leveling order is also there to maximize rogue skills:
1 Rog - 2 Ftr - 3 Rgr - 4 Ftr - 5 Rgr - 6 Rog - 7,8 Rgr - 9 Rog - 10,11 Rgr - 12 Rog - 13,14 Rgr - 15 Rog - 16,17 Rgr - 18 Rog - 19 Rgr - 20 Rog
No tomes used and I am only missing 2 points into Spot to maximize trapping skills, but the L3 ranger spell Wild Instincts grants +10 to spot if needed.
After U11 I'll relocate some AP into wand/scroll usage.

11/7/2 Ranger/Thief/Fighter
Alignment: True Neutral

STR 16+5
DEX 17
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 08
CHA 08

Ranger Feats:
TWF - ITWF - GTWF
Bow Strength - Rapid Shot - Manyshot - PS - IPS
Favored Enemy: Undead, Evil Outsider, Construct

Fighter Feats:
1) Power Attack
2) WF: Ranged

General Feats:
1) Toughness
3) PBS
6) OTWF
9) Mental Toughness
12) IC: Ranged
15) IC: Slashing
18) Extend Spell

Fighter/Thief Skills: Disable Device, Open Lock, UMD
Ranger Skills: Hide, Move Silently, Search, Spot
1st level only: Balance, Tumble, Jump

                TFRFRTRRTRRTRRTRRTRT
Disable Device  4. 1 4  3  3  3  3 2
Open Lock       4. 1 1  3 13 13 13 2
UMD             4. 1 4  3  3  3  3 2
Move Silently   4 2 2 21 21 21 21 21
Hide            4 2 2 21 21 21 21 21
Search          4 2 2 21 21 21 21 21
Spot            4 1 1 14 12 12 12 1 
Balance         4
Tumble          1
Jump            3

Spells loaded:
L1 - Ram's Might, Resist Energy
L2 - Protection from Energy, Barkskin
L3 - Wild Instincts

Elf Enhancements: [38 AP]
Valenar Elf Melee Attack I [2 AP]
Valenar Elf Melee Damage II [6 AP]
Elven Ranged Attack I [2 AP]
Elven Ranged Damage II [6 AP]
Racial Toughness II [3 AP]
Elven Arcane Archer I [4 AP]
Conjure +5 Arrows [4 AP]
Imbue Force Arrows [1 AP]
Imbue Acid Arrows [1 AP]
Imbue Explosive Arrows [1 AP]
Imbue Terror Arrows [1 AP]
Imbue Slaying Arrows [1 AP]
Elven Dexterity II [6 AP]

Thief Enhancements: [28 AP]
Rogue Damage Boost II [3 AP]
Rogue Haste Boost III [6 AP]
Rogue Skill Boost I [1 AP]
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II [3 AP]
Rogue Sneak Attack Training III [6 AP]
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I [1 AP]
Improved Hide II [2 AP]
Improved Move Silently II [2 AP]
Rogue Assassin I [4 AP]

Ranger Enhancements: [11 AP]
Ranger Sprint Boost I [1 AP]
Ranger Favored Attack I [2 AP]
Ranger Favored Damage III [6 AP]
Ranger Dexterity I [2 AP]

Fighter Enhancements: [3 AP]
Fighter Toughness I [1 AP]
Fighter Strength I [2 AP]

Total: [80 AP]

[Deanarth]

Planning a similar build as well.
AA delayed to level 9 to maximize rogue skills. The leveling order is also there to maximize rogue skills:
1 Rog - 2 Ftr - 3 Rgr - 4 Ftr - 5 Rgr - 6 Rog - 7,8 Rgr - 9 Rog - 10,11 Rgr - 12 Rog - 13,14 Rgr - 15 Rog - 16,17 Rgr - 18 Rog - 19 Rgr - 20 Rog
No tomes used and I am only missing 2 points into Spot to maximize trapping skills, but the L3 ranger spell Wild Instincts grants +10 to spot if needed.
After U11 I'll relocate some AP into wand/scroll usage.

That definitely looks pretty similar. I noticed it seems to be a 32 point build, so I'd probably put 2 more into Dex to make it 18 [Unless I added wrong]. Also it looks like DPS would be 1 hander until lvl 2, then 2hander until lvl 5 to get 2 weapon fighting. Probably Falchions to take advantage of the Valenar enhancements.