Clerics and VoD...

[Gkar]

Wow OP, that's a tripple fail on your post...

1) You don't need DI, we did it for a LONG time before DI or wings
2) The cleric doesn't need to know anything, a good leader can explain it, or just ask for DI on them so they can demonstrate what to do.
3) You complain about people not knowing what to do, and then don't explain it

[esheep]

You missed a part from what you just quoted.

No, I didn't. Regarding Vyrn's comments about guild runs, yes, you can expect a higher degree of autonomy than in a pug, I don't dispute that, I do however take issue with implying that a guild run is completely autonomous, which would mean that each person in the raid is acting as a free agent of their own behalf, no need for any communication. I accept that that might be possible for some groups that have run together for a really long time, but I doubt that complete autonomy is seen much in the game.

This discussion was about a pug.

I disagree, this discussion was about people taking the time (30 seconds?) to make sure people know their roles in a raid. It was never intended to be about how bad pugs are and why everyone should be an elitist and only run with their guild.

You also talked about initiative. I blame you for not taking initiative and clarifying what the clerics were supposed to do.

Wow, you really think no one tried to pass on the information? If it would have been so simple this lovely thread wouldn't really need to have been written. Since you weren't actually there, I'll spell it out for you: three minutes after getting to the barrier we still hadn't gotten any form of response from either cleric, some other dude lit the last plate right about when we first got a response from one of the clerics. Like I mentioned before, last in the group, thought the leader had it covered, apparently not. So yes, we tried.

Next time, you step up and explain what needs to be done, instead of complaining about how other people don't take initiative.

Apparently we need more people like Zealot and HOLW on Cannith who are willing to teach raids, so I will actually take that into consideration.

[esheep]

Wow OP, that's a tripple fail on your post...

Or is it just triple fail on your reading comprehension?

Let's take a look at your first point:

1) You don't need DI, we did it for a LONG time before DI or wings

Hrmm... I seem to remeber already quoting myself about that here, but I'll quote it again since you missed it the first two times.

the rest of the party usually is able to position mobs into place before we can get the attention of the clerics in an attempt to educate them.

And on to your second point:

2) The cleric doesn't need to know anything, a good leader can explain it, or just ask for DI on them so they can demonstrate what to do.

Someone else said it best:

But sometimes, they just dont listen.

Again, your second point is mostly covered by the spot above where I quoted myself, but I realize you missed that, so I'll also quote the spot where I stated that I wasn't the leader incase you try to imply that I was an inept leader as well.

Yeah, that probably should've happened, I assumed the leader had everything sorted out when I got a tell asking if I wanted to join an 11 of 12 party for VoD...

Let's give that third point a try shall we?

3) You complain about people not knowing what to do, and then don't explain it

You're right, but guess what... we covered that too!

Honestly the casual players who need this information don't hang out on the forums. Offering my own method of how to do X, Y & Z opens up the can of worms that is everyone-else-feeling-their-way-is-better, which would likely provide little to no value to the people who need it. Besides, it probably already exists in another thread somewhere, with screenshots and whatnot.

(Sorry Ira, trimmed your quote so that you wouldn't be taken out of context with the blithering ones.)

are also the ones that don't usually read the forums or watch the youtube vids, or do anything to better themselves as a player.

A little advice, if you're going to troll the forums and then point out someone's flaws, best not to be also zerging through the forums else you might fail critically on your reading comprehension and embarrass yourself...

[Vyrn]

Careful Vyrn ^.^ you're starting to sound like me.

Please dont compare me to you Ira, ever. I feel horribly dirty now. .

[xxScoobyDooxx]

Please dont compare me to you Ira, ever. I feel horribly dirty now. .

hahahahahahahha ...... this is gonna hurt

[Ninety0ne]

Wow OP, that's a tripple fail on your post...

1) You don't need DI, we did it for a LONG time before DI or wings
2) The cleric doesn't need to know anything, a good leader can explain it, or just ask for DI on them so they can demonstrate what to do.
3) You complain about people not knowing what to do, and then don't explain it

rawr i iz so important I cant read but I must give my opinion. View my 2k post count and know i iz important rawr!

the op cut ya up nicely but it bears repeating lrn2read

[Ninety0ne]

Sounds like poor leadership to me. Perhaps the leader of the raid should have actually explained or asked or even told the clerics what to do.

noes pay attention to me!!!! im imporatant too

[Combat_Wombat]

Wow OP, that's a tripple fail on your post...

1) You don't need DI, we did it for a LONG time before DI or wings
2) The cleric doesn't need to know anything, a good leader can explain it, or just ask for DI on them so they can demonstrate what to do.
3) You complain about people not knowing what to do, and then don't explain it

kinda special aren't we?

[Musouka]

Apparently we need more people like Zealot and HOLW on Cannith who are willing to teach raids, so I will actually take that into consideration.

You're right, sorry for going off on a tangent. Perhaps I should have written problem caused by a pug or pugs, not the discussion was about a pug.

I just don't like it when people talk about initiative, yet they're the ones kind of complaining about the problem existing.

[esheep]

I just don't like it when people talk about initiative, yet they're the ones kind of complaining about the problem existing.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I think I'm going to attempt to avoid pugs that I don't have much control over in the future -- this will atleast let me give my input on how things are run.

[edragoon148]

A little advice, if you're going to troll the forums and then point out someone's flaws, best not to be also zerging through the forums else you might fail critically on your reading comprehension and embarrass yourself...

With respect, it was a general statement, not directed at anyone. It's pretty a pretty accurate statement to suggest the lesser skilled players either don't use or use far less these forums.

Apparently we need more people like Zealot and HOLW on Cannith who are willing to teach raids, so I will actually take that into consideration.

I missed the parallel between this and the last quote, but maybe it was just a misccommunication. I'll take this as a compliment ^.^ the last raid instructional was a massive success. I was especially impressed with how well the Abbot instructional went.

Please dont compare me to you Ira, ever. I feel horribly dirty now. .

Hehe, too many responses for this, but I'm not going to derail the OP's thread. Have a nice day.

[pSINNa]

If you're going to lead a pug vod, you know you're going to have to lead the run in as well.

After a while i found the fastest way to get started, and fastest way for the raid to form as well, was to run down there myself, solve the puzzle, then put up the lfm (vod, (insert preferred difficulty) puzzles are done, first in best dressed).

First person to hit the lfm you ask "do you know the way down?", first to answer yes you request to wait up top till it's filled and everyone's in, and then to herd everyone to the shrine/chest.


You'll fill in 5 minutes, everyone will get there without any hassles, and you will have established some 'leadership' points just by having the puzzle done being ready to run.

Leading the actual raid itself will be easier also, as your leadership has already been accepted, another bonus with 11 puggers of varying experience and ego levels too.

I think the complaint part of your post can safely be ignored, just solve the problem yourself. If you want something done right.....


Coit out~