You're gonna have to pay TP's for Artificer if you want one at U11

[dunklezhan]

Only because the players I see these days come from other games (like that 12 million subscriber one) where DPS is all that matters. .

You mean unlike DDO where everything is about... DPS?

I have to tell you based on my experience, the Other Game has a way more tactical feel in it when you do need to group. The difference is that most of The Other Game is intended to be solod, and that aspect of it is very, very rinse/repeat. DDO... these days its DPS DPS DPS. That's why AC toons are so rare and unloved in groups outside raid bosses, its why any class balance complaints you see are all about damage output, not tactical usefulness or survivability etc etc etc.

The only exception I can think of is healing, and the ability to do traps. The first is vital for the DPS DPS DPS method to work, and the second is vital in elite/epic content. Below that you can avoid almost every trap with little to no risk on every class (I agree by the way that a rogue splash should never be as good as a mechanic. I would love to see some traps in the game that only a mechanic could have a reliable chance at overcoming).

I'm talking gross generalisations here of course. I personally love all those PrEs and tactics that are shunned by the 'majority' (by which I mean loudest) of forumites - I love my arcane archer. I'm loving my lowbie AC toon very much indeed, and I'm going to miss my Earth Savant sorc so much when I TR to arti I think I might actually shed a tear (but those crafting bonuses to my crafting toon and Evocation bonus PL feats are too good to pass up).

But what PuG groups want is damage output. What 'top' guilds want is damage output. The overwhelming majority of opinion on the forums is that damage output is more or less the only thing that matters, with the hitpoints to absorb a failure to think of doing anything other than damage a close second.

DDO is capable of so many more ways to play. But none of them are as fast as 'kill it quickly', so that's all anyone wants to do. Its depressing really.

Anyway. That's so far off topic as to be unfunny.


Artificers being unavailable to VIPs 'free' through in game means (either just available or via favour) at launch is wrong and unfair, and I hope they do something about it.

[irivan]

I must say that i am not sure what is driving Turbine to do this outside of the raw desire to capitalize on a potential financial gain through their VIP community. If this is the case i cant help but feel buyers remorse.

Normally i stick up for Turbine, i am the type that looks at the big picture, i usually assume that most things Turbine has done over the years work out in the long run as they are thinking of both themselves and us.

This move feels greedy to me, and it also says to me breach of understanding (not contract, because there was no guarantee that this would not happen), but if you follow their line of promotion for VIP, Classes, Races, and Content are something that VIP players have never had to pay for in the past.

Had there been some indication when the game went free to play, i may have gone that had i known this was down the pipe.

There is another way to look at this though, perhaps they intend us to pay for it with the bonus points they have been awarding us. Now that might be true and should be possible, but i for one was not told by Turbine about their intentions with this, so i have not been saving mine, i bought other stuff, like customized outfits, character slots, guest passes for friends, lesser reincarnations woods, etc.. Had Turbine mentioned this, and said something like "Bonus Summer Points so you can buy Artificer" then i would have held onto them.

Turbine, something feels wrong, and i am hoping you will award enough bonus points to purchase the class at launch.

If you do not, then it will be clear what direction you think i should go in with my Sub, that i have payed since this game launched back in 06, and to be truthful, there were a couple of really bad years there.

So in summary, no VIP points for Artificer means i go FTP just as soon as i gather the points and resources to buy the content, the opposite and keep my Sub, you decide.

[Tendare]

So, word at PAX11 from Fernando is that U11 will drop with Artificer only available in the DDO store. It might be favor unlockable in U12 - whenever that will drop.

Edit: Yes, this means ViP's will have to pay TP's if they want it at U11!

While I give Fernando props for talking to DDO players, I have to give a big WT? to this one!

Are you kidding me Turbine???

FVS was unlockable at 2500 favor from day 1. Artificer must be as well.

What the heck is the ViP sub for again? I had no issue at all with the hard and elite unlock thing (and consequently the really nice Bravery thing) as it didn't affect a ViP in any way and helped the rest of the player base. That's a nice win.

But Turbine, come on. Artificer unlock available on day1. Free to ViP or 3000 favor or 75 House C favor for everyone.

You know that's how it should be. Do the right thing.

Agreed

[mystafyi]

perhaps they intend us to pay for it with the bonus points they have been awarding us.

Last summer they had the same promo. kids out for school and such. Its hard to imagine turbine planned the bonus points to pay for artificers when this promo started in summer of 2010

[~sumptingwong]

So, word at PAX11 from Fernando is that U11 will drop with Artificer only available in the DDO store. It might be favor unlockable in U12 - whenever that will drop.

Edit: Yes, this means ViP's will have to pay TP's if they want it at U11!

While I give Fernando props for talking to DDO players, I have to give a big WT? to this one!

Are you kidding me Turbine???

FVS was unlockable at 2500 favor from day 1. Artificer must be as well.

What the heck is the ViP sub for again? I had no issue at all with the hard and elite unlock thing (and consequently the really nice Bravery thing) as it didn't affect a ViP in any way and helped the rest of the player base. That's a nice win.

But Turbine, come on. Artificer unlock available on day1. Free to ViP or 3000 favor or 75 House C favor for everyone.

You know that's how it should be. Do the right thing.

Hahaha you think Turbine will reason. Sad thing is that they won't ;P

[DarkAlchemist]

You mean unlike DDO where everything is about... DPS?

I have to tell you based on my experience, the Other Game has a way more tactical feel in it when you do need to group. The difference is that most of The Other Game is intended to be solod, and that aspect of it is very, very rinse/repeat. DDO... these days its DPS DPS DPS. That's why AC toons are so rare and unloved in groups outside raid bosses, its why any class balance complaints you see are all about damage output, not tactical usefulness or survivability etc etc etc.

The only exception I can think of is healing, and the ability to do traps. The first is vital for the DPS DPS DPS method to work, and the second is vital in elite/epic content. Below that you can avoid almost every trap with little to no risk on every class (I agree by the way that a rogue splash should never be as good as a mechanic. I would love to see some traps in the game that only a mechanic could have a reliable chance at overcoming).

I'm talking gross generalisations here of course. I personally love all those PrEs and tactics that are shunned by the 'majority' (by which I mean loudest) of forumites - I love my arcane archer. I'm loving my lowbie AC toon very much indeed, and I'm going to miss my Earth Savant sorc so much when I TR to arti I think I might actually shed a tear (but those crafting bonuses to my crafting toon and Evocation bonus PL feats are too good to pass up).

But what PuG groups want is damage output. What 'top' guilds want is damage output. The overwhelming majority of opinion on the forums is that damage output is more or less the only thing that matters, with the hitpoints to absorb a failure to think of doing anything other than damage a close second.

DDO is capable of so many more ways to play. But none of them are as fast as 'kill it quickly', so that's all anyone wants to do. Its depressing really.

Anyway. That's so far off topic as to be unfunny.


Artificers being unavailable to VIPs 'free' through in game means (either just available or via favour) at launch is wrong and unfair, and I hope they do something about it.

I agree with everything you said. DnD was all about the versatility and variety whereas DDO is anything but. I guess the issue at hand is that Turbine is letting the tail wag the dog and listening way too much to the whiners to truly understand that the same people they are listening to are the ones who are waiting on KOTOR to hit and c'est la vie Turbine.

See when I read someone saying a splash should be able to do everything a trained specialist does, like a Mechanic, I have to laugh at them 100%. I mean if your car needed engine work done would you take it to the fool who buffs cars at the car wash all day and occasionally changes his spark plugs or would you take it to a trained mechanic in an engine shop? I know I would do the latter not the former but in DDO WB/Turbine has made them of equal skills. pffft.

As far as the Arty goes we will see what happens but this is not the first time that Turbine has done wrong towards the VIPs and I sincerely doubt it will be the last time either.

[fandutian]

I agree with everything you said. DnD was all about the versatility and variety whereas DDO is anything but. I guess the issue at hand is that Turbine is letting the tail wag the dog and listening way too much to the whiners to truly understand that the same people they are listening to are the ones who are waiting on KOTOR to hit and c'est la vie Turbine.

See when I read someone saying a splash should be able to do everything a trained specialist does, like a Mechanic, I have to laugh at them 100%. I mean if your car needed engine work done would you take it to the fool who buffs cars at the car wash all day and occasionally changes his spark plugs or would you take it to a trained mechanic in an engine shop? I know I would do the latter not the former but in DDO WB/Turbine has made them of equal skills. pffft.

As far as the Arty goes we will see what happens but this is not the first time that Turbine has done wrong towards the VIPs and I sincerely doubt it will be the last time either.

i think it is all because they are the only dnd mmo yet.. but things will change when nwn online get release.... can't wait to try druid in nwn online.. really doubt ddo will ever relase druid.. so many years.... no cleric domain, nor ranger animal companion, no wiz/sorc familiar.. i don't know how long this game will keep me....

p.s. it is clearly that they could have animal companion/familiar done.. with almost the exact code from artficer's iron defender.. but they just won't relase them.. i guess they want player all go nwn online when it release.. sigh..

[eonfreon]

See when I read someone saying a splash should be able to do everything a trained specialist does, like a Mechanic, I have to laugh at them 100%. I mean if your car needed engine work done would you take it to the fool who buffs cars at the car wash all day and occasionally changes his spark plugs or would you take it to a trained mechanic in an engine shop? I know I would do the latter not the former but in DDO WB/Turbine has made them of equal skills. pffft.

That's not a very accurate analogy. Someone who simply splashes but doesn't dedicate any resources, such as skill points, will get Evasion but little to no trapskills.
Someone who splashes and dedicates build points, skill points, enhancements, etc is hardly a generalist. He's using what skill points he has, at a penalty, to keep up.
And Mechanics can certainly get higher still, higher than anyone in the game.

Here's the thing; at times the traps have had very high DCs which made it so that only the most trap dedicated Mechanics could get them and so deadly that they had to be disarmed or the quest could not progress. Sure some splashes could muster enough buffs to get them, but not reliably, not like a Mechanic.

The problem is that the game is not fun if you have to wait for a specific class to do a quest. It's why people have learned to be as self-sufficient as possible so that we don't have to wait on Healers either.
So, trap heavy quests became basically ignored. Turbine then changed it so that a Rogue would not be absolutely necessary to do certain quests and the quests were run again.

[DarkAlchemist]

...So, trap heavy quests became basically ignored. Turbine then changed it so that a Rogue would not be absolutely necessary to do certain quests and the quests were run again.

Thereby eliminating a class. It squarely lies in Turbine's hands what happens to a class and on this they have utterly failed.

[DarkAlchemist]

i think it is all because they are the only dnd mmo yet.. but things will change when nwn online get release.... can't wait to try druid in nwn online.. really doubt ddo will ever relase druid.. so many years.... no cleric domain, nor ranger animal companion, no wiz/sorc familiar.. i don't know how long this game will keep me....

p.s. it is clearly that they could have animal companion/familiar done.. with almost the exact code from artficer's iron defender.. but they just won't relase them.. i guess they want player all go nwn online when it release.. sigh..

NWN Online I simply will not touch because I do not like 4e.

You know the funny thing about all of this? There are numerous parallelisms with stuff that has been happening with LOTRO so nothing I am seeing in DDO is unique. Seems to be Turbine's mo considering too many similarities between the two games of theirs.

[mournbladereigns]

i think it is all because they are the only dnd mmo yet.. but things will change when nwn online get release.... can't wait to try druid in nwn online.. really doubt ddo will ever relase druid.. so many years.... no cleric domain, nor ranger animal companion, no wiz/sorc familiar.. i don't know how long this game will keep me....

p.s. it is clearly that they could have animal companion/familiar done.. with almost the exact code from artficer's iron defender.. but they just won't relase them.. i guess they want player all go nwn online when it release.. sigh..

They're waiting till there is enough favor in the game for Druids to be unlocked for free at launch, probably around 5K total favor

[joneb1999]

I don't think the version of D&D PnP that NWN MMO is based on should be a decision maker. The fact is it has to be adapted for the computer game market and apparently DDO adapting 3.5 changed significant parts of that game mechanic or left parts of it out according to many posters on these forums.

[fandutian]

They're waiting till there is enough favor in the game for Druids to be unlocked for free at launch, probably around 5K total favor

lol 5k favor isn't anywhere near been free.. consider the amount of pack you need to buy to gain the favor.. even 3 seem hell to me..

[Raiderone]

I look at it this way. It makes sense for DDO to want to make money on a new class.

I remember many polls where peeps said before FTP model, that they'd be willing to pay for new races and classes.

I think the problem is that no difference for VIP vs FTP. I think FTP should have to pay with no options to unlock with favor (and both my accounts are FTP).

I mean would it be nice for VIP to unlock Arty's in U11, yes.
But lets not forget the two or three months of 1000TP's. Save your free TP's
and Arty will be free.

[paxton]

"Being a VIP means you have access to all adventure packs, races and classes**"

"**The Drow race and Favoured Soul class are available to VIPs through game-play or through purchase at the DDO Store. Once acquired through game-play, the race or class is available for any new character or true reincarnated character on the same server."

These are Turbine's words about becoming a VIP. The words they and I agreed to when I became a VIP. If they don't make the class accessable through gameplay then they should give it to me.

-p

[Chaos000]

These are Turbine's words about becoming a VIP. The words they and I agreed to when I became a VIP. If they don't make the class accessable through gameplay then they should give it to me.

Agreed. However Turbine been clear that it was a business decision and they are intentionally not going this route.

So now what? we voiced our opinion, premium players keep adding their two cents that VIP shouldn't feel so entitled, and we have no control over Turbine because a couple cancelled VIP accounts won't prevent it from happening again if the business decision accomplishes it's intention of increasing revenue.

[spitfirek]

I could care less about it costing TP as a premium player, I would probably have to buy it anyway. As a VIP I don't see what the big problem is... you get TP every month, save some up and buy it. As a F2P farm TP to get it if your a cheapskate.

What I wanna know(and I haven't see it yet) is HOW MUCH TP will it cost to buy it?

[Chaos000]

I could care less about it costing TP as a premium player, I would probably have to buy it anyway. As a VIP I don't see what the big problem is... you get TP every month, save some up and buy it. As a F2P farm TP to get it if your a cheapskate.

The reason why premium players don't see the big problem with a VIP having to buy a class is because it's the model they are accustomed to.

If Turbine was to make a business decision to cap out the amount of TP that can be farmed in-game how upset do you think that premium and f2p players would get? The response from players who don't deal with TP would likely be, eh I guess I'll just play as normal.

[blkcat1028]

As a VIP I receive 500 Turbine points a month as part of my subscription. These points are not free and I should not have to use them to buy content in the game.

HOWEVER, over the last 3 months Turbine has been nice enough to give me 1500 Turbine Points for FREE! I did not pay for these points and no where in the VIP agreement does it state that Turbine is obligated to give me extra points. (though they do it with fair regularity)

These free points are more than enough to buy the Artificer without ever having to touch any of my points that come with the subscription. As a matter of fact, even if the class costs 1000 TP, I'll be 500 TP better off than usual.

Thanks for the BONUS points Turbine. I guess you do care.

[mystafyi]

The reason why premium players don't see the big problem with a VIP having to buy a class is because it's the model they are accustomed to.

If Turbine was to make a business decision to cap out the amount of TP that can be farmed in-game how upset do you think that premium and f2p players would get?

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