You're gonna have to pay TP's for Artificer if you want one at U11

[eviltikiman]

I am already saving my TP for it and I am ok with it. Odds are that it will be unlock-able with favor as well like the Favored Soul at some point if not right away. And those with VIP memberships have less to be complaining about since they get 500 TPs every month. 2 months of saving points plus a minimal amount of rep grinding will buy you that artificer.

[mahiro37]

As a VIP I feel like I'm supposed to be annoyed by this, but since I just can't muster up the enthusiasm for the Arti class I honestly don't care that it isn't immediately available to VIPs.


It would be more of an issue for me if the new content wasn't available immediately.

That's pretty much how I feel. I'm VIP, but I just can't seem to care about this class.

I mean, it looks cool and all, but it's just not enough to get my ire up.

That being said, I just want to let Turbine know that this business decision will have a seriously negative impact on the trust factor of your monthly subscribers.

[Burradin]

As a VIP I feel like I'm supposed to be annoyed by this, but since I just can't muster up the enthusiasm for the Arti class I honestly don't care that it isn't immediately available to VIPs.


It would be more of an issue for me if the new content wasn't available immediately.

You should be concerned that a trend is being started toward the removal of the benefits you are paying your vip sub for.

[Kalari]

I dont want to add fuel to a fire but honestly even after calming down I just see this as yet another way of them telling us subscribers were obsolete.

Honestly how can they possibly justify not even giving us a true official announcement till a community member made the news known? Why in the world would they make an update and not include enough favor for everyone to unlock the class?

For those saying oh VIP get the free turbine points your right we do but its not that at least for me. I know I can and will probably have enough points to buy the class if I wanted to, its the fact that its not really a choice if I want to play the class when its released. With favored soul and Drow I had the favor to unlock those it was not an issue. With this there is a blatant shady tactic of releasing unfinished content via favor and basically telling us to "Deal with it or wait.." As a VIP waiting was supposed to be a non issue.

I cannot speak for all players but as I said before 2011 has been a really hard year lost two immediate family members just got my feet wet podcasting and trying to keep my head together. DDO is one of the only true luxuries I afford myself and VIP was supposed to be the highlight of said luxury. It makes me feel lower then you can imagine to know that its a joke right now. And while some may easily convert to premium I have a lot of trimming and work to do to get to that point. For me right now walking away would be an easier less work entailing route and thats a shame. I dont want to stop paying I enjoy DDO when I play it but I do not enjoy being played like a fool.

Turbine is not a new company not fresh off the boat for me to believe they made a mistake with creating an update without sufficient favor for the new class unlock is not happening. Its a cash grab plain and simple and thats the part that stings. once again it adds to the people who say VIP is a waste I just wish they would come out and do away with it instead of pretending like us subscribers still matter.

[Tarackian]

As with anything there is choice. And the choice for me is no $#$@ way. Don't need it that bad.

So, word at PAX11 from Fernando is that U11 will drop with Artificer only available in the DDO store. It might be favor unlockable in U12 - whenever that will drop.

Edit: Yes, this means ViP's will have to pay TP's if they want it at U11!

While I give Fernando props for talking to DDO players, I have to give a big WT? to this one!

Are you kidding me Turbine???

FVS was unlockable at 2500 favor from day 1. Artificer must be as well.

What the heck is the ViP sub for again? I had no issue at all with the hard and elite unlock thing (and consequently the really nice Bravery thing) as it didn't affect a ViP in any way and helped the rest of the player base. That's a nice win.

But Turbine, come on. Artificer unlock available on day1. Free to ViP or 3000 favor or 75 House C favor for everyone.

You know that's how it should be. Do the right thing.

[KreepyKritter]

Well... considering my limited amount of time to play, and the fact that I just started a pet-barbarian, I'm probably going to end up capping him out before I start another toon... Though it may be the next life for my TR... which would make him a beast at ranged, with two ranger levels under his belt. So, whether from favor or from TP, it'll be a while before I'm in the market for the class.

Heck, I'd been playing two years before I even considered FvS and after buying it two months ago, I still have yet to make one.

Then again, I've got six months worth of TP to burn. Honestly, I'm not really broken up over this, though I'm definitely going to be making one... eventually.

[mahiro37]

In a way, I kind of wish there was some way to get the majority of players to boycott buying this class before it can be gained through favor available in game.

I realize it is not realistic, but I feel this was handled quite badly and even though I have stated that I don't really care about the class, that doesn't mean i don't care about the way it's being handled.

If they had stated their intentions clearly early on, they could have avoided this uproar.

I am sure people would still have been mildly upset, but I doubt they would have felt betrayed.

[DarkAlchemist]

To make matters worse I honestly feel this is a trendsetter in future Turbine practices. I rolled a trap monkey Mechanic but I found out that everything they can do will be done with this Artificer class. Why have a rogue when you can have this new jack of all trades class?

I really really really feel that they will begin to introduce classes that will kill the older classes so they can make money. Sort of like the dealio they are doing with the older packs that not a soul plays and instead of revamping them they introduce more packs so they can sell those.

I wonder which current class will be the next killed one?

[DarkAlchemist]

I know it's not a huge benefit -- but on my pure artificer I never got more than 1 part when disabling a trap ( tried about 125 or so traps of varying levels / difficulties ) -- on my mechanic I routinely got several parts on disables.

Also, the lack of evasion plays a big part in the Artificer not being as good at traps and, additionally, they get less skill points per level than rogues.

The big question I have is why would anyone want a rogue in their groups when the jack of all trades will bring more to the table? Turbine already <bleep> us Mechanics when they went on a tear marshmellowing all the trap dc's so anyone with a 1 or 2 level splash could do them all and that never did sit well with me since a pure should never have competition from a splash class regardless.

[Uska]

The big question I have is why would anyone want a rogue in their groups when the jack of all trades will bring more to the table? Turbine already <bleep> us Mechanics when they went on a tear marshmellowing all the trap dc's so anyone with a 1 or 2 level splash could do them all and that never did sit well with me since a pure should never have competition from a splash class regardless.

A splash can often hit the same DC as a pure it has nothing to do with turbine nerfing traps or if not very close to same skill level usually they have a higher int than a pure rogue. yeah I am a splash. Why would they take me or a pure rogue well an artificer is gonna die trying to get some traps so they willl likely not bother with them and just hope people can blow through or rez on other side Von 5 epic or even lower comes to mind

[DarkAlchemist]

A splash can often hit the same DC as a pure it has nothing to do with turbine nerfing traps or if not very close to same skill level usually they have a higher int than a pure rogue. yeah I am a splash. Why would they take me or a pure rogue well an artificer is gonna die trying to get some traps so they willl likely not bother with them and just hope people can blow through or rez on other side Von 5 epic or even lower comes to mind

Doesn't matter but a splash really shouldn't ever be able to do the same traps as a pure and if Turbine hadn't nerfed the DCs you wouldn't be able to due to the Mechanic's +4 (they could have it set up like that). On Epic my mechanic will have well over 60 (probably around 63-65 without a ton of gear) and I was already told I am HIGHLY wanted for epic quests and I am even being helped a little to get there but the fact is not the true Arty but what 2 levels of Rogue will do to the class. Two levels will bring so much that a pure Rogue will simply not be wanted from what I am looking at. Jump to the Wiki and see everything they bring to a group and couple that with even a simple 2 rogue evasion and look out.

[patang01]

The big question I have is why would anyone want a rogue in their groups when the jack of all trades will bring more to the table? Turbine already <bleep> us Mechanics when they went on a tear marshmellowing all the trap dc's so anyone with a 1 or 2 level splash could do them all and that never did sit well with me since a pure should never have competition from a splash class regardless.

Because rogues are premium DPS and Artificers are not. Artificer is a good support class but it will never outkill a good rogue. They start and end with their ability to support others.

[DarkAlchemist]

Because rogues are premium DPS and Artificers are not. Artificer is a good support class but it will never outkill a good rogue. They start and end with their ability to support others.

How is a Mechanic, which is what I am talking about, in the DPS department? How will it compare to the DPS of the Arty?

[gloopygloop]

How is a Mechanic, which is what I am talking about, in the DPS department? How will it compare to the DPS of the Arty?

You said

The big question I have is why would anyone want a rogue in their groups when the jack of all trades will bring more to the table? Turbine already <bleep> us Mechanics when they went on a tear marshmellowing all the trap dc's so anyone with a 1 or 2 level splash could do them all and that never did sit well with me since a pure should never have competition from a splash class regardless.

My question is why would anyone want a mechanic in their group in the first place? That's like bringing a Cleric or FvS into your group who ONLY casts cure/heal spells or a Bard who ONLY sings his bard songs or a Wizard who ONLY casts Mass Hold and Haste/Rage.

I'll be delighted to continue to bring Rogues into the party who can slaughter their enemies in droves and also handle whatever traps we happen to encounter just like I'll be delighted to bring Clerics/FvS who heal and fight and Wizards who cast more than one spell throughout the quest and so on.

If you're upset that no one will want your one trick pony, then STOP BEING A ONE TRICK PONY.

[QuantumFX]

How is a Mechanic, which is what I am talking about, in the DPS department? How will it compare to the DPS of the Arty?

Depends on what you’re talking about. If you’re imagining a contest between crossbow users with the same feats and in sneak attack range the mechanic will win hands down. +14d6 sneak attack dice (10d6 for 19 rogue and +4d6 for Deadly Shadow) on every shot is a whole lot more than what any rune arm provides. (And isn’t anywhere near the maximum amount of pain the rogue class can bring to the fight.) At longer ranges the artificer will probably win if they have a decent rune arm.

But really, if a player hasn’t figured out by level 20 that a rogue needs to be “Up close and personal” then they should probably play something a little more their style. I hear Hello Kitty Online is Free to Play.

The rogue classes greatest enemy is not splash builds or artificers. That distinction belongs to players who think “Rogues are meant for disablin traps and openin locks. Derp.”

[DarkAlchemist]

...The rogue classes greatest enemy is not splash builds or artificers. That distinction belongs to players who think “Rogues are meant for disablin traps and openin locks. Derp.”

The last time I looked there are three types of Rogues. Besides the three types with Sneak for xbows going to 15m vs 10m that will help immensely the Mechanic builds.

All in all it just is too bad this game isn't DnD.

[Ecoski]

I'm just curious, but if VIP's no longer get given classes as part of their subscription, does that mean that newer packs are not going to be included either? In which case, surely a discount is in order for subscribers, or failing that, give them more TP per month, seeing as the T&Cs seem to have been altered.
Also, I feel they need to update their advertising for the VIP program:

"The DDO VIP program is the best value for players who want access to everything in DDO! Being a VIP provides unlimited access to all Adventure Packs, premium classes and races, and free Turbine Points to spend in the DDO Store every month. It also provides our highest level of service, from priority login access to additional free character slots. It’s the white glove, velvet rope way to go! A monthly DDO VIP subscription costs £8.99, and even less for multi-month plans!"
-http://www.ddo.com/vip

Really? Are you sure? From the looks of things the white gloves are looking shabby, the velvet rope has frayed, and unlimited access to all classes? I think someone needs to edit this. If you cut out every sentence that contains a mistake, you get left with this:

"Free Turbine Points to spend in the DDO Store every month. Free character slots. A monthly DDO VIP subscription costs £8.99, and even less for multi-month plans!"

Hmmm, not looking so good anymore. Of course, they missed out the fact that you can get into quests on hard and elite without having to do normal, as that's only for VIPs. Hang on <man whispers in my ear> I withdraw that statement, now it's no longer exclusive for VIPs. Great.

[Samadhi]

So, word at PAX11 from Fernando is that U11 will drop with Artificer only available in the DDO store. It might be favor unlockable in U12 - whenever that will drop.

Edit: Yes, this means ViP's will have to pay TP's if they want it at U11!

While I give Fernando props for talking to DDO players, I have to give a big WT? to this one!

Are you kidding me Turbine???

FVS was unlockable at 2500 favor from day 1. Artificer must be as well.

What the heck is the ViP sub for again? I had no issue at all with the hard and elite unlock thing (and consequently the really nice Bravery thing) as it didn't affect a ViP in any way and helped the rest of the player base. That's a nice win.

But Turbine, come on. Artificer unlock available on day1. Free to ViP or 3000 favor or 75 House C favor for everyone.

You know that's how it should be. Do the right thing.

Yeah... pretty much if this isn't available, then there is no point in remaining VIP anymore. Looks like Turbine decided who pays more money to them. Some of us still remember them describing the benefits of being VIP as including all content, however. Waiting until a later update for something is not including all content.

Just so absurd that, in combo with wings, my desire to play the game is actually LOWER than when it was during the mass-update-hold during the legal disputes.

[Uska]

Doesn't matter but a splash really shouldn't ever be able to do the same traps as a pure and if Turbine hadn't nerfed the DCs you wouldn't be able to due to the Mechanic's +4 (they could have it set up like that). On Epic my mechanic will have well over 60 (probably around 63-65 without a ton of gear) and I was already told I am HIGHLY wanted for epic quests and I am even being helped a little to get there but the fact is not the true Arty but what 2 levels of Rogue will do to the class. Two levels will bring so much that a pure Rogue will simply not be wanted from what I am looking at. Jump to the Wiki and see everything they bring to a group and couple that with even a simple 2 rogue evasion and look out.

are you saying only mechanic rogues should be able to get traps I can hit the same dc as just about any rogue and a pure rogue is still very nice to have they can survive much easier than a artificer even if they splash rogue they wont have a good enough reflex save to matter I really disagree about the trap thing and your idea about rogues not being wanted I love my pure rogue I just love my splash better she is much more fun to play

[Uska]

How is a Mechanic, which is what I am talking about, in the DPS department? How will it compare to the DPS of the Arty?

you will still out dps them in melee and even if they splash rogue they wont have improved evasion or a good enough reflex save for their evasion to really matter without sacrificing elsewhere to get a good one