is Warchanter II worth it ?

[Hajutze]

In short - for 2 AP you get 10 HP, some AC (due to being able to cast in medium armor and 2 songs, one of which I doubt is that useful (the doubleswing) and the second .. I'm sure it doesn't stack with courage (greater heroism).

10 HP for 2 AP sounds tasty, but I have to waste 3 points on courage to get to it.

[pSINNa]

The opening up of an enhancement line that gives a weapon proficiency of your choice instead of having to burn a feat (and bards have a very tight feat setup) was one of the biggest sells for me on warchanter 2.

Add to that the song of heroism and song of recklessness and yes, i'd say it's worth burning those ap's

My opinon (both my bards are different types of warchanter 2 at the moment, Coittimeh and Coitrippr, so i may be a little biased there xD)

Coit out~

[Hajutze]

- Master's Touch ... 10 SP, works for my axe
- Why would I spend a song on heroism (it gives .. +4 saves .. that's all, the other stuff is covered by courage)
- Recklessness (and the extra 10 HP) is still the only thing that makes me wonder about WC II

[Bilger]

In short - for 2 AP you get 10 HP, some AC (due to being able to cast in medium armor and 2 songs, one of which I doubt is that useful (the doubleswing) and the second .. I'm sure it doesn't stack with courage (greater heroism).

10 HP for 2 AP sounds tasty, but I have to waste 3 points on courage to get to it.

It isn't a waist inspired recklessness even with the sm fort loss is greatly benificial and alot sing it in raids and everything. The extra doublestrike is always handy any extra dps is. The loss of fort 10% is nothing if can't survive 1 crit here and there reroll.

Plus extra hp (nice) use of med armor is meh.

Heroics song is great mass gh is always great. saves sp and seriously who runs out of songs at high lvl.

For a pure 20 WC adding in choice of weapon prof is awesome so to answer question yes it is more than worth it.

[pSINNa]

Greater Heroism gives immunity to fear, and as a bard gets Greater Heroism on it's spell list, and people are well aware of that, it's a given that you'll need to be able to throw that spell in a raid to buff the party.

With the relatively limited spell point pool you'll be packing, you'll find that after fom'ing and GH'ing, along with maybe blur, haste and rage you're left a bit thin for your own healing or even party healing if you're built for it.

Being able to throw one song that will GH the whole party (and cannot be dispelled for beholder battles as well) is one very powerful little trick. It doesn't sound like much, but in practice becomes very, very handy stuff.

The weapon proficiency issue is a fair crack, some people don't mind using masters touch, though, if you have a large selection of weapons for example greataxes, you will have to masters touch each one of those weapons as you switch into them, so i prefer just a fulll proficiency myself to save a lot of hassle.

Of course if you use the one or two weapons for everything then for sure, that won't be much of an issue for you.

In the long run, an enhancement reset is only a piddly amount of plat, try it out and if you don't like it reset.



Coit out~

[Shishizaru]

- Master's Touch ... 10 SP, works for my axe
- Why would I spend a song on heroism (it gives .. +4 saves .. that's all, the other stuff is covered by courage)
- Recklessness (and the extra 10 HP) is still the only thing that makes me wonder about WC II

- Warchanter <Weapon> Training is more about convenience. Master's Touch usually works just fine, so I wouldn't base your decision to go WCII off of this.

- GH grants +4 saves, +4 to skill checks, fear immunity and temporary HP. It's a great buff, even with IC up.

[rayworks]

The weapon proficiency issue is a fair crack, some people don't mind using masters touch, though, if you have a large selection of weapons for example greataxes, you will have to masters touch each one of those weapons as you switch into them, so i prefer just a fulll proficiency myself to save a lot of hassle.

I'm not sure this is correct. I have 3 greataxes on my WC I and I switch between them all the time. Never see the "you are not proficient" thing flash on the screen after I masters touch the first time.

[KillEveryone]

Masters touch is nice but it can be dispelled...beholders and critters that cast dispel...so it can be annoying. With the proficiency, it isn't dispelled and you don't have to remember to recast it.

[pSINNa]

I'm not sure this is correct. I have 3 greataxes on my WC I and I switch between them all the time. Never see the "you are not proficient" thing flash on the screen after I masters touch the first time.

I could be out there, they've changed masters touch a few times and it's been about 6 months since i've used it at all myself, and, i've been known to be fuzzy on the fine details on occasion xD. Good catch

But ya, best course of action would be to try it, and if you don't like WC2 then just do a enhancement reset.

[Raoull]

use of med armor is meh.

The value of the med armor isn't AC or anything like that, but simply opening up more options in named armor. For example, Marilith chain, combining decent defense and offense in one slot, is medium and a pretty good choice for a melee bard.

[jandhaer]

The value of the med armor isn't AC or anything like that, but simply opening up more options in named armor. For example, Marilith chain, combining decent defense and offense in one slot, is medium and a pretty good choice for a melee bard.

or the best armor in the game the medium Epic Calvary Plate from the crystal cove event.

[voodoogroves]

It's totally worth it. The mass GH song is a huge time-saver and the double strike song is gold. Some people don't like it - but it's well worth it mechanically.

[PurdueDave]

Song of Recklessness is what gets me in.

[FastTaco]

The value of the med armor isn't AC or anything like that, but simply opening up more options in named armor. For example, Marilith chain, combining decent defense and offense in one slot, is medium and a pretty good choice for a melee bard.

I like my Epic Cavalry plate slotted with toughness, it also has +5 resist, superior false life, demonic shield and DR 5/Chaotic.

Combined with epic claw set I'm able to swap out my minos for a +6 seeker hat with +15 perform which then allows me to swap out bloodstone for litany.

[Bilger]

The value of the med armor isn't AC or anything like that, but simply opening up more options in named armor. For example, Marilith chain, combining decent defense and offense in one slot, is medium and a pretty good choice for a melee bard.

I know that it is still meh compared to other things get from wc II.

Not everyone has marilith chain and if thinking epic near impossible or going to pay out of rear to get.

Epic calvary is a nice option for med as someone stated also.

But of bonuses for wc II it is one of lower advantages and that is why I said meh.

You are correct though it does open a couple of nice armors up.

[licho]

In short - for 2 AP you get 10 HP, some AC (due to being able to cast in medium armor and 2 songs, one of which I doubt is that useful (the doubleswing) and the second .. I'm sure it doesn't stack with courage (greater heroism).

10 HP for 2 AP sounds tasty, but I have to waste 3 points on courage to get to it.

Yes its worth. In any circumstances.
Its only 2AP. And as long as you are not HO (hmm ok thats tricky) you anyway dont have what for spend your aps.
Its generally accepted that Racial Tuffness I&II are musthave. So WCII is like RTII in cost.

As for song, they are good. GH party is 6x30sp more for you for panic heals.
5% doublestrike is same as tempest III (ok thats poor comparison - poor rangers) but for whole party, and this 10% crit is not so awful, generally in raid scenerio it will be bursted or mass healed. And if smbd dont like it can just go in defence stance for a sec.

Im splashed rogue/fighter so cant value weapon prof and medium armour.
You need to look into if there is a armour in only med version which you like.

Auto weapon proficiency is a easy of use, nice once you have it, but not real boost compered to MT.

[-Zephyr-]

Concerning master's touch : chances are it will prevent the use of artificers infusions (weapons can only have 1 enhancement at a time or something like that). The full proficiency is worth it.

[karl_k0ch]

Even if there wasn't the option for the weapon proficiency, and the songs would be pretty much uninteresting, I'd still take 10 HP for 2 AP. On any character.

[Valindria]

it's worth it.

[Ironforge_Clan]

In short - for 2 AP you get 10 HP, some AC (due to being able to cast in medium armor and 2 songs, one of which I doubt is that useful (the doubleswing) and the second .. I'm sure it doesn't stack with courage (greater heroism).

10 HP for 2 AP sounds tasty, but I have to waste 3 points on courage to get to it.

More than worth it imho.