Rogues: Haste and Damage boost shouldn't share a cooldown.

[sephiroth1084]

First, /NOT signed

There is no reason whatsoever for rogues to gain the benefit of both boosts at the same time. If you want both, then you have more boosts to use between shrines. Good for you. If you don't want both, don't get both.

At the same time, when they were implemented the human boosts were just a marginal DPS boost. Their relative impact is being changed dramatically, it is certainly worthwhile to revisit other perks they have. Humans are the only race besides helves with inherent healing amp, the only race that can permanently up any stat, other fringe benefits... should they be a premiere DPS race on top of all that?

Compare, for instance, to elves: elves get permanent boosts to decent (but not the best) weapon bases, a Constitution penalty, and immunity to sleep. There's no mechanical reason to make an Elf melee fighter over a Human with these changes. I'm not saying that's definitely wrong, but it should at least give one pause.

I agree.

I think the boosts on Human Versatility should all be weaker than their class-based counterparts, but Damage Boost, in particular, definitely needs some reducing. Humans have been the choice for flexibility and options (extra feat, extra skill, choice of stats to boost, variety of boosts, healing amp), while other races have been the better choices for DPS. Humans shouldn't also be at the top of that pile.

[noinfo]

At the same time, when they were implemented the human boosts were just a marginal DPS boost. Their relative impact is being changed dramatically, it is certainly worthwhile to revisit other perks they have. Humans are the only race besides helves with inherent healing amp, the only race that can permanently up any stat, other fringe benefits... should they be a premiere DPS race on top of all that?

Compare, for instance, to elves: elves get permanent boosts to decent (but not the best) weapon bases, a Constitution penalty, and immunity to sleep. There's no mechanical reason to make an Elf melee fighter over a Human with these changes. I'm not saying that's definitely wrong, but it should at least give one pause.

I am sorry you picked a poor example here. I like elves and play them quite a bit but before this change there was no reason at all to play an elf over a human fighter at all. This should not play part of the debate as it is not questioned by anyone that elves need alot of attention. That elf fighter is probably going to be dual wielding khopeshes anyway as they are better dps then scimi with racial anyway (though probably not by a huge margin).

Compare them to dwarfs/wf and horc.

Dwarf is certainly falling behind but not as much as elf/drow but to think that this will challenge horcs and wf in sustained dps I think is a little off and does not affect Barbarians at all as the damage boost does not stack with class damage boost.

[sirgog]

Rogues need a boost with the U11 fortification increases. Not sure whether this is the way to go, or something that allows partial fortification bypassing.

[Kinerd]

I am sorry you picked a poor example here. I like elves and play them quite a bit but before this change there was no reason at all to play an elf over a human fighter at all. This should not play part of the debate as it is not questioned by anyone that elves need alot of attention. That elf fighter is probably going to be dual wielding khopeshes anyway as they are better dps then scimi with racial anyway (though probably not by a huge margin).

Compare them to dwarfs/wf and horc.

Dwarf is certainly falling behind but not as much as elf/drow but to think that this will challenge horcs and wf in sustained dps I think is a little off and does not affect Barbarians at all as the damage boost does not stack with class damage boost.

Humans are going to be far superior to dwarves and superior to warforged when it comes to DPS. +25% weapon damage is sooo much higher than +3 (or +6) Power Attack that even the base number of boosts will put humans so far ahead that it would take near or into the double digit minutes for WF to catch up. I picked elves because in addition to being inferior DPS they offer no secondary melee advantages, unlike dwarves/wf.

[kingarthas87]

This thread is moot if you want to run both haste and dmg boost on a rogue just roll a human or helf. If the class echance are on different cd whats the point of human versatility.

[.Revenga.]

No,

There's no reason to make an exception for rogues on a rule that applies to all classes: class boosts are on the same timer.

If you want to make up for the hit rogue dps takes from the extra fort that is coming in the game, there are much better solutions.

If you want both boosts on a different timer, be happy, it's possible, roll a human.

[teh_meh]

/punchthisthreadinthethroat

[Kinerd]

No,

There's no reason to make an exception for rogues on a rule that applies to all classes: class boosts are on the same timer.

If you want to make up for the hit rogue dps takes from the extra fort that is coming in the game, there are much better solutions.

If you want both boosts on a different timer, be happy, it's possible, roll a human.

Well, rogues are an exceptional case: they're going to be the only class with two very useful boosts.

[Havok.cry]

/sarcasm on
/signed
Then lets also nerf everything that is better than something else.
/sarcasm off