The problem that is the Restless Isles explorer zone

[Pwesiela]

This needs a complete workover. Lets be serious here. No one does this area. It simply isn't worth it. Some numbers to put it in perspective.


Area-----------XP per explorer-------XP for all explorers-------XP per rare---------------XP for all rares--------------Total slayer xp possible

Sorrowdusk-----------250---------------5,000-----------------500--------------------7,500-------------------------23,092

Red Fens-----------300-----------------4,500------------------600--------------------10,800------------------------133,693

Restless Isles---------325----------------2,437------------------650-------------------2,925--------------------------28,365

Ataraxia's------------325----------------6,500-------------------650--------------------9,750-------------------------28,365

Desert--------------350------------------10,937------------------700-----------------16,800------------------------58,390(x3)

So what do we see for these areas that are roughly in the 9-14 level range? We see that sorrowdusk is better xp than the Restless Isles, as is Red Fens, both lower level areas than the Isles. That Ataraxia's and the Desert are higher should be expected. We see that Sorrowdusk and the Red Fens, again, are higher in xp for the rares than the higher level Restless Isles. We also see that other than Sorrowdusk, the Isles are below all others for slayer xp.

So, why's this a problem? Because this is a higher level explorer zone that no one does that does minimal for the xp fight. Why? Because there's only 6 explorers and 3 rares and a pain in the butt map and it takes 40 minutes to do the whole thing solo with recalling back to the Foothold to speed it up and you only get 260 kills per run. So it's far less xp for far more time.

Possible changes:

Increase the explorers. You can add at least 5 more to the list: the quest givers, the quest entrances, and the entrance to the volcano's mouth. Why this explorer zone doesn't have quest entrances as explorer points is beyond me. Add some more rares, both on the main paths and off the main paths.

And a big one: make it so that you don't have to have the idol from slavers to get the last explorer and last rare. Both the wildman alcove and the rare that is there are only accessible by giving the idol to the wildman traitor. This can be easily done by making the top entrance to that part of the caverns searchable or discoverable by true sight or detect secret doors. This means you'd have to pass the guards on the lower door first, so it's not free to get. You have to work for it. But requiring the quest for the explorer point and possible, possible, rare is absurd. No other explorer zone has this mechanic. There's no guarantee even if you use the idol that the rare will be there. Which means you have to run the quest for every attempt. That needs fixing.

Make a better map. And maybe add a way to make the map into a loop, so that you don't have to go to one end of the branch, recall back to the Foothold, and then go down the other path. Connect the ends of each branch somehow.

You have to pay for this pack. The explorer zone doesn't make it anywhere worth it. The quests have issues, and I'm not going into the raid. At least make the explorer zone worth it. It's a level 10 zone. Let it give xp that's worth it.

Added suggestion just for the raid: Let the airship navigator be able to transport us to the volcano's mouth after we've flagged for the quest or found the explorer point.

[Dysmetria]

This needs a complete workover. Lets be serious here. No one does this area. It simply isn't worth it. Some numbers to put it in perspective.


Area-----------XP per explorer-------XP for all explorers-------XP per rare---------------XP for all rares--------------Total slayer xp possible

Sorrowdusk-----------250---------------5,000-----------------500--------------------7,500-------------------------23,092

Red Fens-----------300-----------------4,500------------------600--------------------10,800------------------------133,693

Restless Isles---------325----------------2,437------------------650-------------------2,925--------------------------28,365

Ataraxia's------------325----------------6,500-------------------650--------------------9,750-------------------------28,365

Desert--------------350------------------10,937------------------700-----------------16,800------------------------58,390(x3)

So what do we see for these areas that are roughly in the 9-14 level range? We see that sorrowdusk is better xp than the Restless Isles, as is Red Fens, both lower level areas than the Isles.

It doesn't look that way to me, well unless you are looking at total experience instead of experience per objective. This explorer zone is smaller than others so it makes sense that the total experience would be smaller than others as well.

[Baahb3]

I agree with most of this. There are a few points of explorer that could be added and the whole idol = rare/explorer is pretty dumb.

I also would like a navigator drop off for the quest entrance to the Titan raid.

[Pwesiela]

It doesn't look that way to me, well unless you are looking at total experience instead of experience per objective. This explorer zone is smaller than others so it makes sense that the total experience would be smaller than others as well.

The point is, in the time it takes me to do one full run of the Isles, I can do one full run of any of the other areas in the level range and quadruple my xp, so why do Isles? Why buy the pack? After I did a semi-full run on the Isles (couldn't get the last rare or explorer since I didn't have an idol) I went and ran a full Sands. While the Isles run gathered me about 9,000 xp total, the Sands run netted me 29,600 xp total, for about the same amount of time. Similarly, Sorrowdusk is a lot faster to do a full run (15 minutes, tops) and will net you more. For such a small explorer zone, with so few objectives, it takes for-ev-ver.

[Gadget2775]

Totaly on board with this. Would love to see that explorer area get some additional luvin.

[badbob117]

I think any change to get players to actually run this pack is a welcomed change. This is the pack me and my guildies refer to as "The forgotten isles"

It needs a total overhaul. More loot. more xp. more rares and a better map with easier access to the raid. I can count on one hand the amount of times I saw a at level LFM for anywhere in the Restless isles in 2 years. No one bothers with this pack anymore!

I think it is safe to say they should just make it free at this point for the f2p population to explore it a bit. Something has to give. No one i know runs it at level. Half the players do not even know it exists.

[redspecter23]

I'm guessing that this pack will get the epic treatment at some point. That would be the appropriate time to also revamp the entire explorer area. Give it a more easily mappable layout, add in the appropriate number of rares/explorers and fix the entrance to the raid by adding a teleport and making similar to Tod in that you solve the whole raid group/non raid group mess it takes to get there. Direct teleports to the quests may or may not be needed depending on the new map layout as well.

I'd also give the raid itself a bit of polish similar to the minor improvements given to the Von raid when it went epic. Make N/H/E scale properly so that you can actually get a noticeably higher drop % for items on elite. Titan is notorious for low drop rates on higher difficulties and the post concerning the % drop rates from raids has numbers to prove this. (in my opinion if the difficulty of a raid doesn't scale properly to allow for the proper % increase in raid drops, then the raid should be changed instead of making the drop rate lower) These sort of changes, if done properly could make the pack a must buy when the time comes.

[joaofalcao]

Agreed. Not only the explorer, but the quests are preety low experience for all the time you spend finding/running it.

[PinkDragonJr]

As I understand it this pack in it's entirety is one of the oldest that DDO has, so I guess that it is going to have glaring balancing issues and unrealistic rewards when compared to other, newer packs built by more experienced hands.

I'm not defending it, far from it. I simply stating the reason for this problem is that RI is badly outdated and needs to be reworked, to bring it up to the standard we have gotten used to with the other packs.

[red_cardinal]

/signed

[Hutoth]

/signed

[Pwesiela]

The current big problems:

Horrible xp for the fact that this is a purchased zone.

Horrible xp for the level of the zone.

Horrible xp for the time it takes to clear out the zone.

A hidden explorer point (one of only a few) that requires a quest item to get to it (only known instance of this in game).

A hidden rare (that's fine) that requires a quest item to get the chance for (only known instance of this in game). And when you do have that item, you're not guaranteed that the rare will be there, necessitating running the quest again to get another item to get another chance at him.

Horrible map of the zone.


Last night, I ran slavers, got the relic, and checked the rare. Yeah, not there. Great. I get to go back into the quest to get another relic to get another shot. This mechanic, in and of itself, is a horrible, horrible way to do the explorer/rare. Make the tunnel accessible from the volcano entrance. Either by search or by true sight. Put some ogre's on the other side of it, so you have to fight to get to it, I don't care, but requiring the horrid figuring is a horrid way to do this zone.

[Galeria]

/signed

[SirValentine]

I like the Restless Isles. Two nice quests, an awesome raid, and an interesting and unique explorer zone.

That said, a bit of a touch-up would be nice.

Horrible xp for the fact that this is a purchased zone.

Horrible xp for the level of the zone.

Horrible xp for the time it takes to clear out the zone.

It's not that bad, but I wouldn't complain if it was better.

A hidden explorer point (one of only a few) that requires a quest item to get to it (only known instance of this in game).

A hidden rare (that's fine) that requires a quest item to get the chance for (only known instance of this in game). And when you do have that item, you're not guaranteed that the rare will be there, necessitating running the quest again to get another item to get another chance at him.

This mechanic, in and of itself, is a horrible, horrible way to do the explorer/rare. Make the tunnel accessible from the volcano entrance. Either by search or by true sight. Put some ogre's on the other side of it, so you have to fight to get to it, I don't care, but requiring the horrid figuring is a horrid way to do this zone.

This, actually, is amazing. I love it. Why should every rare be easy to get? This unique mechanic gives this area flavor. I oppose changing this. If this makes the XP/min crowd not run Restless Isles rares, so what?

Horrible map of the zone.

Ok, here you have a point. Can we get a better map, please?

[somenewnoob]

I did all the explorers and rares and it was an epic PITA. I got VERY lucky that the rares were each there the first time I went there. As somebody who has done all explorers and rares in every explorer zone other than the sub and devil bf, this is by far the most ridiculous. It wasn't fun, it was frustrating.

Restless needs a serious upgrade, map, xp, .....basically everything.

[Sarisa]

Any improvement to the Restless Isles pack will be good.

Problems include:

• Low explorer experience, with a small number of explorers and rares. There are many more kills than count, due to the large number of Glass Spider eggs.
• The 'Horrid Golden Figurine' explorer and rare spawn point. While a good idea, forcing people to farm Figurines in Slavers for a CHANCE at getting the rare to spawn is annoying. It can be done without completion, open up the shaft, drop to the bottom and kill that Flayer, loot the Ring of the Ancestor's chest, and take the Figurine.
• Poor to non-functional map (common problem with "interior" areas in Tempest Spine, Caverns of Korromar, and many other areas).
• The very frustrating Slavers of the Shrieking Mines. When done at level, it's much more difficult than the very similar Let Sleeping Dust Lie because there are far fewer instant kill spells available. The ogres have much higher saves compared to the quest level and the power level of a group then in Let Sleeping Dust Lie.
• The Beholder optional in Slavers not being able to be completed because only one of two Beholders exist.
• The difficulty of getting people through the explorer area to the raid, especially at level if you don't have a way to Greater Teleport.
• The inability to complete some optionals in the Twilight Forge raid for experience unless you have a complete group, or you do a lot of deleting and retaking of crystals.
• The raid itself, where most people HAVE to pike or else the Titan's random uncontrollable aggro will make it much harder.
• The extremely poor drop rates for the raid. On elite, each person only has an 18% chance of getting a piece of raid loot, according to the data mining done back in update 7. That makes it the poorest rate elite raid in the game (aside from Tempest Spine).
• No shrine at the completion of the raid. VoN6 also had this problem, but a shrine appears there now. In a group without a way to raise people, this can get people completions but unable to loot the chest. The people most likely to die are the few who are doing the jobs on the floor. Note that Titan upon completion CAN be grief'ed, unlike VoN6.

That said, I still love the area (a total of [39+20+1+2] 62 raid completions), and Ghola Fan is an incredibly fun zerg/slaughterfest.

Threnal, Sorrowdusk, and Three Barrel Cove are also areas that desperately need looked at. Threnal and the Restless Isles are the most glaring issues.