High Int?

[Samadhi]

Trying to think of a reason to stay high Int on an Arti with the change to the capstone. Spell DC's seems limited, because getting them to sustainably nuke at high level is going to take a lot of work. An Int of 20 will still cover a lot of the other perks.

Any thoughts/rationale out there as to why an Arti should stay high Int? Or have they officially crossed over to about as limited as bards with high Cha?

[Cyr]

If you are not going glancing blows str then repeaters seems like a no brainer for them to constantly be firing in between anything else and int helps the damage on that...

Also BB DC.

[rimble]

Let's see, what can I think of:

- You can also use it for Attack or Damage
- Also use it for a high Reflex Save (with Insightful Reflexes of course)
- Each point of Int is +1% to retain charges (% chance is Arti Level + Int)
- Higher Rogue skills (meh)
- More spell points (minimal I know)
- Higher Spell DCs (agreed that this is of incredibly dubious value at the moment)
- More Skills (meh)

...that's all I got.

About being able to reliably nuke and how difficult that will be...so then, how are you going to do damage? Do you REALLY want to be up in that melee? Or standing back with your Repeater?

I'll be cowering in the back thank-you-very-much, but if you're not interested in the Crossbow thing, then yeah, I don't see a whole lot of value there.

[dkyle]

Yeah, unless you're dedicated to Crossbow damage, which has no other possible damage stat, I'm not seeing much case for INT, either. An Artificer has even fewer DC-based spells than a Bard, and DC-based spells from wands are extremely limited, even ignoring that the DC from the capstone will still be marginal compared to an actual Wizard or Sorc.

When I roll one (and I'll roll at least one even just as a crafting bot), it'll probably be a 12 base INT, max STR, rest in CON, with either THF or BSword+rune arm.

[fandutian]

isn't bb enough to go high int? XD plus you can put your int mod to crossbow damage..

[dkyle]

isn't bb enough to go high int? XD plus you can put your int mod to crossbow damage..

You don't need a high DC for a useful BB. Plenty of melee FvS/Clerics (including my own) use BB effectively with a dumped DC.

Yeah, it sucks if you run into evasion enemies, but they're not that common. And evasion enemies tend to still suck even if you have a decent DC, because their Reflex tends to be high.

[Samadhi]

You don't need a high DC for a useful BB. Plenty of melee FvS/Clerics (including my own) use BB effectively with a dumped DC.

Yeah, it sucks if you run into evasion enemies, but they're not that common. And evasion enemies tend to still suck even if you have a decent DC, because their Reflex tends to be high.

This for BB.

@ Rimble -
If I can't find anything better, it will probably be a Dwarf/DAxe/Str combo - so the Int replacement will not be beneficial for attack/damage like it would on an XBow
The retain charges... eh, if I can find a clickie/purchasable wand to make it worthwhile, yes, otherwise... so down for suggestions there...
The rest... yeah I'm as 'meh' as you are. Thanks for throwing a list down though so I at least have more "potential points" to try and talk myself into going "YEAH INT!!"

:/

[hit_fido]

At one point I understood that Insightful Strikes/Damage counted as one "channel" of temporary item enhancement since they were personal only while the other infusions like deadly weapons, elemental damage, dr breaking, all counted as another "channel". So having Insightful Strikes (or Insightful Damage, but not both) up at the same time as one of the other infusions was possible. Reading the wiki and the release notes it doesn't sound that way so perhaps I misunderstood. That seems to be another strike against high Int usefulness.

In fact looking at the release notes again I don't even see Insightful Damage listed. Was it removed or just erroneously omitted?

[jjflanigan]

At one point I understood that Insightful Strikes/Damage counted as one "channel" of temporary item enhancement since they were personal only while the other infusions like deadly weapons, elemental damage, dr breaking, all counted as another "channel". So having Insightful Strikes (or Insightful Damage, but not both) up at the same time as one of the other infusions was possible. Reading the wiki and the release notes it doesn't sound that way so perhaps I misunderstood. That seems to be another strike against high Int usefulness.

In fact looking at the release notes again I don't even see Insightful Damage listed. Was it removed or just erroneously omitted?

You can most definitely have an insightful buff and one of the other buffs on your weapon at the same time.

I do not know if insightful damages was removed (but I don't recall reading that it was), haven't had a chance to log in since last update.

[rimble]

@ Rimble -
If I can't find anything better, it will probably be a Dwarf/DAxe/Str combo - so the Int replacement will not be beneficial for attack/damage like it would on an XBow
The retain charges... eh, if I can find a clickie/purchasable wand to make it worthwhile, yes, otherwise... so down for suggestions there...
The rest... yeah I'm as 'meh' as you are. Thanks for throwing a list down though so I at least have more "potential points" to try and talk myself into going "YEAH INT!!"

Yeah, the case for a high/max Int is not very strong...

I've just tried to make a few good Repeater builds in the past, and this is another opportunity to do so...and max Int is a no-brainer for me in that case.

[rimble]

In fact looking at the release notes again I don't even see Insightful Damage listed. Was it removed or just erroneously omitted?

It's actually never been in the Notes for some reason, but it has been available in game in all of the Lamannia builds so far. I believe it's just a Notes oversight.

[jjflanigan]

Yeah, the case for a high/max Int is not very strong...

I've just tried to make a few good Repeater builds in the past, and this is another opportunity to do so...and max Int is a no-brainer for me in that case.

I love my high int for *one* major reason -- the knock to prone effect on prismatic strike and tactical detonation -- holy **** is that awesome.

[fandutian]

You don't need a high DC for a useful BB. Plenty of melee FvS/Clerics (including my own) use BB effectively with a dumped DC.

Yeah, it sucks if you run into evasion enemies, but they're not that common. And evasion enemies tend to still suck even if you have a decent DC, because their Reflex tends to be high.

ah.. good point.. hmm maybe i should reroll my artficer then XD thanks

[FooWonk]

...will put all level ups into INT
...eat a banked +4 INT tome
...and take all the INT enhancements available (+4)
for a 42 INT

Reasons:
Insightful Reflex
CC with Prismatic Strike & Lightning Strike

The build will lose 3 points of damage per swing (STR 36 v. 42) and gains:
-> a lot of utility with skills points (208 v. 148)
-> a needed 290 SP boost

And most importantly, this build will be a cannon firing nerd girl with a big sword.
And that is cool!

[Jaid314]

...will put all level ups into INT
...eat a banked +4 INT tome
...and take all the INT enhancements available (+4)
for a 42 INT

Reasons:
Insightful Reflex
CC with Prismatic Strike & Lightning Strike

The build will lose 3 points of damage per swing (STR 36 v. 42) and gains:
-> a lot of utility with skills points (208 v. 148)
-> a needed 290 SP boost

And most importantly, this build will be a cannon firing nerd girl with a big sword.
And that is cool!

no need to lose damage, just use the insightful damage infusion to add int instead of strength to your sword.

[FooWonk]

no need to lose damage, just use the insightful damage infusion to add int instead of strength to your sword.

That will still be an average damage loss of
2.5 per hit before getting deadly weapon (because I can't use elemental weapon), and
3 per hit once I get deadly weapon.

[hit_fido]

You can most definitely have an insightful buff and one of the other buffs on your weapon at the same time.

Thanks for confirming that. So my original thought was max int, high str, high con might give flexibility: When your str-based melee to hit is working well, use insightful damage for some extra power; otherwise use insightful strikes for extra accuracy. Same for ranged, although with low dex you might be using insightful strikes more often. The high int keeps your spells working as well as they possibly can. The wiki isn't clear on bonus spell points from int, I would assume that will help there too.

It also would not surprise me to see a future named weapon aimed at artificers that uses int as a modifier anyway. This is a premium class after all, it will make sense for Turbine to sweeten the pot or tie in such a loot item in some future pack and the precedent has been set with stuff like midnight greetings and elyd edge.

So those might factor in as reasons to look at a high int build.

[hit_fido]

That will still be an average damage loss of
2.5 per hit before getting deadly weapon (because I can't use elemental weapon), and
3 per hit once I get deadly weapon.

But the benefit of the Insightful "personal infusions" is you can use them at the same time as the other infusions like elemental damage, deadly weapons, planar weapons, etc. So if you max int, you can always apply it as needed without a drawback - as your damage modifier, or when necessary, as your to hit modifier.

[FooWonk]

But the benefit of the Insightful "personal infusions" is you can use them at the same time as the other infusions like elemental damage, deadly weapons, planar weapons, etc. So if you max int, you can always apply it as needed without a drawback - as your damage modifier, or when necessary, as your to hit modifier.

Do you know if this has been commented by a dev to be WAI?

I hadn't checked insightful damage or strike on lam because I haven't found the scroll and never got it while leveling. I do know that for all the other weapon enchantments, casting a second on the same weapon will remove the first.

If insightful damage AND deadly weapons (when it's finally debugged and released to live) can be cast on the same weapon concurrently, then what's lost by going max INT for an melee artificer swinging a bastard sword?

[Morosy]

Do you know if this has been commented by a dev to be WAI?

Being clearly stated in the description when you examine the buff was WAI enough for me, but that doesn't mean they still won't change it.