Pure Healer

[wax_on_wax_off]

Unfortunately there is no good middle group in there. What you give up: 4+5 lv-ups+3 exp=12 cha= 6 turns, you are unlikely to use amara ring so 3 more loss and unlikely to have extra turning so 4 more losses= at least 13 turns which is significant.
Besides, i really would never roll 14 con on a class which has no class toughness enhancement.

I don't like your maths.

Either way, the build that I described could happily take extra turning and equip amara's (or another +turn item) and be quite similar to yours if desired.

With your build you will end up <5% better at healing. In contrast, you can be <5% behind on the healing but be a fully fledged divine caster as well and able to throw it down with the big boys.

It is a well established fact that healing isn't a full time job in DDO because, well, it isn't that difficult in 95% of the game. Damage comes in dribs, drabs and spikes and there is a LOT of downtime in which no damage is coming in and if all you are doing is standing around looking at red bars then you are a waste of a party slot.

Perhaps you need to be enlightened?

(this is a link to a forum thread that every player should read)

[downeast]

A 18 wisdom is decent enough as you have 3 level ups in Wisdom and 1 wisdom from human meaning that you would have 22 wisdom before items and buffs from your ship at 20.

First, thanks for the advice. I've decided not to sacrifice WIS, but to keep CHA up reasonably high, not maxed. Not so sure about your math though. The Character Generator shows 28 naked WIS at 20, but that includes a +2 tome, so 26 WIS. 18 + 5 level up (not 3) + 1 Human + 2 class = 26.

[EpiKagEMO]

Pure Heale Max in the following order , Wis, Con, Cha. you really dont need anything else. Diplo+concentrate is all you need. take maximize, empower, empower healing, and you'll heal a bit like a madman.

[Such755]

wow, 14 wisom and all level ups in charisma? Let's begin with the fact that a healer doesn't mean a healbot, let a lone a bad one.
At lvl 20 your bursts will heal a top of 160-200 damage with all metamagic on, while this is great and it can save SP, it's often not enough (Try Burst-healing in the shroud part 5 for example) let alone dangerous.

And sometimes it happens when a party just doesn't need a healer that much, in that occasion you'll want to display some decent DPS and CC, where you will need as high wisdom as you can for better DC.

And what about solo? The amount of turns you have will matter nothing when you're trying to solo, and your BB and other offensive\cc spells will be useless.

Another thing to consider: I started with 14 charisma, at lvl 19 I have 16 turns per rest, and my gear is a joke. I can get it up to 17-18 turns without trying too hard, but that doesn't matter because I don't ever use all those 16 turns, and I often use positive bursts \ aura to save some SP.

14 charisma vs 18+5 level ups, you get 4 \ 5 more turns and lose all the spells DC. Does it worth it? I doubt it.

PS: As for skills, even though since I got to lvl 15 I almost never turn Quicken Spell off, I still belive that concentration is an important skill, for times you can't afford quicken, for example. Other than that I took jump, because I hate not being able to jump, but if you don't like it concider Balance. Now that I've experienced the used of teleport and greater teleport, I wish that I had taken UMD just for those two scrolls, but that's just me :P

[Mubjon]

First, thanks for the advice. I've decided not to sacrifice WIS, but to keep CHA up reasonably high, not maxed. Not so sure about your math though. The Character Generator shows 28 naked WIS at 20, but that includes a +2 tome, so 26 WIS. 18 + 5 level up (not 3) + 1 Human + 2 class = 26.

If you read what I said again, you will see that I left out the level ups I should have included them as well, and later one I did mention that you would have around 34 to 36 with all level ups, buffs, items, exceptional and tomes. The 3 level ups i mentioned were from enhancements, a cleric can get Wisdom III, Human wisdom I so if you took level 18 starting without placing level ups you would have 22, +6 item makes it 28, 5 level ups is 33 and then a +1 tome for 34. Add in +3 from greensteel and that is 37, a +2 tome would make it 38. Ship buffs would get you to 40.

The point though is that for a Cleric Charisma does nothing more than increase your turns, while they might be great with the aura and bursts, and if you go melee Divine Might, you will need the SP pool as well as the ability to do more than just heal. It would get very boring I think if all you could do well was heal, especially when Clerics have some really nice damaging and CC spells.

I can drop a comet fall and take a group of mobs down to half health and have them sitting on their butts for the melees or wizard to clean up. I might not lead the kill count, but I can be assured that I contributed more than just watching red bars and twirling my thumbs. Some parties will require more babysitting than others, in those times that you get a good party together that does not take much damage you will love having the ability to do more than just toss a burst or keep the aura up and throw in heals here and there.

Now if you only wanted to take your cleric and run through necropolis for the entire life then I could see the bursts being beneficial. As one burst in those quests can kill all the trash in one go, and the bosses take about 2 to 4 bursts on average.

[morticianjohn]

Str is fine on a pure clr. I started my clr with 14 str and I use it. With divine might/power rhal's might and gear I can hit just about anything. While my dps is low and in some quests nonexistent due to high dps characters, it allows me to sustain damage even when I'm out of SP. Generally this is useful when soloing. I just don't see 4 points being better spent elsewhere. This also helps tons for leveling.

[Mubjon]

If you have yet to create your Cleric and if you have 32 pt builds I would recommend this for a caster cleric that will not enter melee at all.

Str 8 (+2 ship buffs, +6 item) = 14
Dex 8 (+2 ship buff, +6 item) = 14
Con 16 (+2 ship buff, +2 tome, +6 item)= 26
Intel 12
Wisdom 18 (+3 wis enhancement line, +1 human, +3 tome, +6 item, +2 ship buff, +3 exceptional) = 36
Cha 10 (+2 ship buff, +6 item, +2 tome) = 20

you can get a +3 tome from completing raids like the Shroud 20 times, and even if you do not buy points or go VIP you should save your TP earned to purchase the pack to get this quest as it really is that good to have. +2 tomes can cost a bit in TP but in the time I have leveled my pure cleric up I have gotten at least one +2 tome for the stats I have listed as adding the tome to.

The above will give you good amount of health (around 400 to 450 easy before buffs and around 470 with rage) and around 1850 to 2K sp (with archmagi and a couple of the enhancements + mental toughness for almost 2200 if you go that route)

If you think you need more DC for offensive and CC then slot a Spell penetration sovereign rune in your DT armor for a +3 to all level 8 and lower spell DC (comet fall, blade barrier and greater command being the ones you want the most for this).

If you have 28 pt build I would recommend taking Wisdom to 17 and Intel to 11 and grab a +1 tome to intelligence as soon as you can. You will need to drop the 1 wisdom from the human adaptability and put it somewhere else, you could lower one of the others and use the human adaptability there instead. You would lose a +1 to your DC and some spell points but it is still very viable Cleric build for a first time cleric even at 28 pts.

[Such755]

If you have yet to create your Cleric and if you have 32 pt builds I would recommend this for a caster cleric that will not enter melee at all.

Str 8 (+2 ship buffs, +6 item) = 14
Dex 8 (+2 ship buff, +6 item) = 14
Con 16 (+2 ship buff, +2 tome, +6 item)= 26
Intel 12
Wisdom 18 (+3 wis enhancement line, +1 human, +3 tome, +6 item, +2 ship buff, +3 exceptional) = 36
Cha 10 (+2 ship buff, +6 item, +2 tome) = 20

you can get a +3 tome from completing raids like the Shroud 20 times, and even if you do not buy points or go VIP you should save your TP earned to purchase the pack to get this quest as it really is that good to have. +2 tomes can cost a bit in TP but in the time I have leveled my pure cleric up I have gotten at least one +2 tome for the stats I have listed as adding the tome to.

The above will give you good amount of health (around 400 to 450 easy before buffs and around 470 with rage) and around 1850 to 2K sp (with archmagi and a couple of the enhancements + mental toughness for almost 2200 if you go that route)

If you think you need more DC for offensive and CC then slot a Spell penetration sovereign rune in your DT armor for a +3 to all level 8 and lower spell DC (comet fall, blade barrier and greater command being the ones you want the most for this).

If you have 28 pt build I would recommend taking Wisdom to 17 and Intel to 11 and grab a +1 tome to intelligence as soon as you can. You will need to drop the 1 wisdom from the human adaptability and put it somewhere else, you could lower one of the others and use the human adaptability there instead. You would lose a +1 to your DC and some spell points but it is still very viable Cleric build for a first time cleric even at 28 pts.

Why int?

[downeast]

Why int?

Yes, those INT points are costly; was a bit of work to fit them into my latest build, but I see what he's saying. They're needed if you want UMD.

The way I see it, there are 2 options:

With UMD:
8 STR
8 DEX
14 CON
12 INT
18 WIS
14 CHA

Without UMD:
8 STR
8 DEX
16 CON
8 INT
18 WIS
14 CHA

[downeast]

The 3 level ups i mentioned were from enhancements, a cleric can get Wisdom III, Human wisdom I so if you took level 18 starting without placing level ups you would have 22, +6 item makes it 28, 5 level ups is 33 and then a +1 tome for 34. Add in +3 from greensteel and that is 37, a +2 tome would make it 38. Ship buffs would get you to 40.

Ah, OK, I follow your math now. Didn't get that the "3 level ups" meant enhancements. I only took Wisdom II in my build as 6 APs is very expensive for the 3rd rank.

[jandhaer]

I would advise to take Quicken much earlier then L18 I would say as a general rule you will want it by the time you get to Giant Hold when the incoming damage in the game starts to really step up. Personally while leveling I turn it off to buff then keep it on 24/7 at end game I often leave it on all the time as forgetting to put it back on can make for a hilarious and painfully quick death :P

[hkusp45]

my Level 20 TR cleric Has 17 turns & over 2400sp

[downeast]

I was going over my skill points, and I could get UMD with 10 INT if I drop another skill. I've kept Concentration, Diplomacy, and Balance high. Could I get by without 1 of these?

[Luckness]

You will not really miss diplomacy.

[danlan]

I don't like your maths.

Either way, the build that I described could happily take extra turning and equip amara's (or another +turn item) and be quite similar to yours if desired.

With your build you will end up <5% better at healing. In contrast, you can be <5% behind on the healing but be a fully fledged divine caster as well and able to throw it down with the big boys.

It is a well established fact that healing isn't a full time job in DDO because, well, it isn't that difficult in 95% of the game. Damage comes in dribs, drabs and spikes and there is a LOT of downtime in which no damage is coming in and if all you are doing is standing around looking at red bars then you are a waste of a party slot.

Perhaps you need to be enlightened?

(this is a link to a forum thread that every player should read)

You can of course use amara's ring/extra turning feat etc on ur cc/melee-oriented cleric, but that is kind of weird given ur orientations.

I have quite some experience with favored souls and clerics. Cleric destruction/cometfall/blade barriers/implosion are great for levelling purposes that's true. However at current endgames, especially raids and epics, your melee and cc spells are not that useful than you might otherwise think (espcially in epics given the u9 +4 saves buff to all epic mobs). Argurably ur best role in a group is to heal-botting in these end-game quests.

As for the number of bursts, about 15 should be enough for the majority of quests, but if you need a reliable/cost-effective cleric to farm some of the hardest epics with friends/guildies (namely epic chains of flame, epic against the demon queen etc), a clr with about 30 bursts and more than 2200 sp do save you a lot of mana pots and scrolls.

[wax_on_wax_off]

You can of course use amara's ring/extra turning feat etc on ur cc/melee-oriented cleric, but that is kind of weird given ur orientations.

I have quite some experience with favored souls and clerics. Cleric destruction/cometfall/blade barriers/implosion are great for levelling purposes that's true. However at current endgames, especially raids and epics, your melee and cc spells are not that useful than you might otherwise think (espcially in epics given the u9 +4 saves buff to all epic mobs). Argurably ur best role in a group is to heal-botting in these end-game quests.

As for the number of bursts, about 15 should be enough for the majority of quests, but if you need a reliable/cost-effective cleric to farm some of the hardest epics with friends/guildies (namely epic chains of flame, epic against the demon queen etc), a clr with about 30 bursts and more than 2200 sp do save you a lot of mana pots and scrolls.

Each burst corresponds to about 70 SP of free healing. When you are making a choice between wisdom and charisma it equates to 22 SP with extra wisdom that can be used for anything (including single target or AoE heals) or 70 SP with extra charisma that is relegated to AoE, close range healing.

Additionally, it is quite possible for a cleric to have more than a healbot role in these difficult quests contrary to your suggestion. For starters, a cleric is quite capable of getting an implosion DC that is high enough to instant kill large mobs (though perhaps after a PL: sorcerer/wizard or two). After this, there are numerous other spells in a clerics arsenal which can be used effectively in any content on a wisdom based build.

Again, you/re taking 5% more healing power for -100% offensive DC casting. If it's what you're into that's fine but don't pretend that it is necessary or optimal.

Now, if you were putting that charisma to use and it was possible for you to turn high level undead then that might be cool but overall you aren't getting enough utility from that investment for it to be worthwhile.

[downeast]

You will not really miss diplomacy.

I really think I would miss it. In fact, it just saved me in the last quest I did (the quest that got me xp for level 6, Radiant Servant now, yay!).

I was doing Partycrashers alone with a fighter hireling. In the private rooms all the tieflings mobbed us. I kept getting stunned and we were about to die. Got off diplomacy and they all went after the hireling long enough for me to escape. Healed up and single pulled them until I could get the hireling's soul stone and take it to the rez shrine. Went on to finish the quest and get 6. =D

I decided to dump Balance instead.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I really think I would miss it. In fact, it just saved me in the last quest I did (the quest that got me xp for level 6, Radiant Servant now, yay!).

I was doing Partycrashers alone with a fighter hireling. In the private rooms all the tieflings mobbed us. I kept getting stunned and we were about to die. Got off diplomacy and they all went after the hireling long enough for me to escape. Healed up and single pulled them until I could get the hireling's soul stone and take it to the rez shrine. Went on to finish the quest and get 6. =D

I decided to dump Balance instead.

Balance is painful to lose. Look around for some +15 balance boots or get the +15 balance ring from Invaders! I think there is also a nice new balance item in one of the U11 quests.

Often I try to get a +2 intelligence tome at level 7 and then use those extra skill points for balance. I find this to be a good compromise.

[rpasell]

Do not swap Wisdom for Charisma on a caster cleric, you would do more harm to your character than good.

^
This.

I would advise to take Quicken much earlier then L18 I would say as a general rule you will want it by the time you get to Giant Hold when the incoming damage in the game starts to really step up. Personally while leveling I turn it off to buff then keep it on 24/7 at end game I often leave it on all the time as forgetting to put it back on can make for a hilarious and painfully quick death :P

^
Not this.

Probably the thing I disagree with most about Cleric builds. If you invest in Concentration, Quicken is un-necessary. I don't carry Quicken and have never missed it. Remember your Aura and Burst can't be interrupted anyway.

I was going over my skill points, and I could get UMD with 10 INT if I drop another skill. I've kept Concentration, Diplomacy, and Balance high. Could I get by without 1 of these?

I've never used diplo in a fight, as I'm not grabbing agro I don't want, and balance can be swapped in with an item when needed.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Probably the thing I disagree with most about Cleric builds. If you invest in Concentration, Quicken is un-necessary. I don't carry Quicken and have never missed it. Remember your Aura and Burst can't be interrupted anyway.

I've never used diplo in a fight, as I'm not grabbing agro I don't want, and balance can be swapped in with an item when needed.

Quicken is necessary for 1 single spell being Mass Heal. No other healing spell is so efficient nor so vulnerable to interruption. Quicken is definitely a feat that you don't want to miss.

You should regularly get aggro on a cleric, if you aren't then you aren't play aggressively enough. Try zerging ahead of the party, kiting mobs through blade barrier and then when the party catches up you use diplo to pass the aggro off before finding another large group of mobs ...

It is true that diplo has never been needed on a cleric before but it is more useful now with the changes and if there is room for it it isn't a bad idea as something to play around with in some situations, more options, more fun (after Concentration, UMD, half ranks in balance, 1 rank in tumble THEN diplo).