Turbine balancing developing on the right track - Grip of death.

[Sonofmoradin]

Grip of death - I do not know yet if it applies outside LoB and MA raids and into other raids as well, but this is a great idea to make the game interesting again.

In the very past I had suggested removing Major SP pots completely out of the game quite some years ago, since it seemed that the factor "challenge" of the game was translated into in game money and stacks of major pots, that is, when a raid was hard, we knew it from the count of majors been used. The question was not anymore if a group completed a challenge, but how much it took. Moreover, with the introduce of the ddo store this was starting to translate into real money as well - at least in some cases. Having an organized guild however, moreover a powergaming one, included that the guild would have a way to stack resources and therefore make it fair for everyone in such guild, and ofcourse the support classes.

The grip of death makes the majors obsolete, and in the same time it reactivates the lost sweetness of ddo were the best tactics and coordination is rewarded again in order to complete the quest, which again becomes the major focus, rather than how much resources and money you need to complete a given challenge. Careful play is promoted again. There has been many attempts in the past to balance this priority, but now Turbine is moving in the right direction, and I really hope that this change will not be taken back, succumbing to the bigger view of the player base wants and needs, who mainly do not even know themselves what they really want in the first place. I have been playing rpg games on pen paper for quite some time, and believe me the most happy moment is when the party succeeds against seeming impossible odds. As to that, it is no fun winning if you dont loose, or if you do not have the feeling that there is a great risk involved.

[grodon9999]

Good, now do something about SP-pots.

[Autechre]

Grip of Death surely boosts up the challenge and i personally like it very much. One note though cause i dont know if its WAI. If your 2 min timer expires and you dont accept a raise the timer starts again ticking back from start for another 2 minutes and so on.

Overall i am signed.

[Firewall]

I haven't done the raids yet. What does it do?

[Caseas]

Also signed.

[Autechre]

I haven't done the raids yet. What does it do?

If you die you cant be raised or resurrected for 2 minutes.

[Sonofmoradin]

I haven't done the raids yet. What does it do?

Each time you die on epic dificulty in a raid, you cannot be raised for 2 mins. (we tested this on MA raid yesterday after the patch) This timer is 1:30 on elite, 1:00 on hard and 30 seconds on normal. (from what I heard) We do not yet know if it applies to all raids, or just LoB and MA, so if anyone can confirm this it would be good.

[Rizzyn]

Each time you die on epic dificulty in a raid, you cannot be raised for 2 mins. (we tested this on MA raid yesterday after the patch) This timer is 1:30 on elite, 1:00 on hard and 30 seconds on normal. (from what I heard) We do not yet know if it applies to all raids, or just LoB and MA, so if anyone can confirm this it would be good.

Good info. Yes, my group kept seeing the reapplication of the time as well. I'm fairly certain its a bug, as it didn't reapply every time we missed a Rez. Also, I hope its a bug, delayed Rez is one thing, creating a narrow window of opportunity to do so between timers, is quite another.

[Gabriel_Black]

I don't like the idea of commenting on something I have not tested yet but I don't think I like this as it is being described. How about you can't be raised until the timer expires OR the party no longer has agro on something? I see a few things that this will cause as it stands:

1. Forced to spectate while there is no danger to the party. Boring.
2. The party having to wait for timers to expire before being able to raise and continue on. Boring.
3. After final fight healers having to wait around to raise people for their end chest(s). Boring.
4. After being raised players will have to run back to get chests if the party has moved on. This will be even worse if there are respawns or the party moves past a point of no return before the timer expires. Frustrating.

[Dendrix]

This is a dire idea

I want to play, not sit around for ages waiting. I might as well go to the loo and have a dump once I am dead.

Really good game play, NOT! *(sarcasam intended)*


Basically any lowish HP character gets to wait around doing nothing for long periods on raids.
worst change ever.

[MiLoHe]

I don't like the idea of commenting on something I have not tested yet but I don't think I like this as it is being described. How about you can't be raised until the timer expires OR the party no longer has agro on something? I see a few things that this will cause as it stands:

1. Forced to spectate while there is no danger to the party. Boring.
2. The party having to wait for timers to expire before being able to raise and continue on. Boring.
3. After final fight healers having to wait around to raise people for their end chest(s). Boring.
4. After being raised players will have to run back to get chests if the party has moved on. This will be even worse if there are respawns or the party moves past a point of no return before the timer expires. Frustrating.

The point is this: dont die by making good tactics and not zerging, in order to avoid the boring things you mentioned

[grodon9999]

So if I get this right . . . if you die on epic . . . you cannot be raised for 2 minutes?

If so, that is evil and i LOVE it. This makes the game harder in a good way, takes out a lot of the stupid.

[Zerkul]

I like this change... I have to remember people as well that normally in D&D to raise someone you need 1 minute, to resurrect 10 minutes and to true resurrect 1 minute. Grip of death is welcome change for me: it was a bit over powered in my opinion to be able to instant raise people on and on even with death penality. Reasoned playing coming again!

[Darkshire]

I really hope that this change will not be taken back, succumbing to the bigger view of the player base wants and needs, who mainly do not even know themselves what they really want in the first place.

Seriously? That train of logic doesn't derail halfway down the track? I think I know what I want when I log in, the playerbase and I will thank you to not assume stuff in our place while you're not paying our way.

Given the size of the recent brouhaha over a recent change that did not affect everyone equally, I'd think the 'fun' of having Fvs wings unfettered would be weighted with less importance than the 'fun' of not standing around bored because something went sideways in a raid.

If people are getting all up in arms about a 15 second cooldown over something applicable to one class, you can bet a 30 second+ wait at any given time for any raid where someone dies would be about as popular a change as a major earthquake.

As an additional layer of challenge for the new, high level raids? Understandable. Applicable on content that's mostly years old and been left alone in most regards up to now? Bad idea. Nostalgia is not useful in making changes like this. Tweaking it for the new raids is fine, but let it remain there unless Turbine wants to hear their profit curve make the 'ding' sound.

[Xaxx]

For a game built on an active combat system.. this is an absolutly horrible idea. This would be bad implimentation for something like wow or eq or rift... this is a horrible implementation here.

Think about the early days of reaver... how many people had fun when they died and went up to the tower.. lots of complaining about that back then... I also seeing this going really well in shroud.. oh sorry guys someone died we gotta wait in part 4... part 5... raise... oh wait its not been a min your dead cant raise you.

You really expect turbine to impliment something like this and get it to work right with something like shrouds auto death/auto raise??? LOL

Bad idea, and I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess probably bad implimentation by turbine (since you know every time they put in any type of new system the gimp it somehow).

I like challenge but this isnt challenge this is simply making you wait if you die... woohoo yep thats challenge and fun woohoo.

Theres also problems with this as ddo was developed as a grinding game for years... then f2p comes around and they make it more grind worthy, they make it easier for players and make it even more grindy.... now they turning difficultys back up a bit and adding things like this but yet still leaving the game as the grindy system its always been. If they're going to overhaul the difficulty, overhaul the basic game design to. I dont see this ending well for the playerbase or their pocketbook overall.

[grodon9999]

For a game built on an active combat system.. this is an absolutly horrible idea. This would be bad implimentation for something like wow or eq or rift... this is a horrible implementation here.

Think about the early days of reaver... how many people had fun when they died and went up to the tower.. lots of complaining about that back then... I also seeing this going really well in shroud.. oh sorry guys someone died we gotta wait in part 4... part 5... raise... oh wait its not been a min your dead cant raise you.

You really expect turbine to impliment something like this and get it to work right with something like shrouds auto death/auto raise??? LOL

Bad idea, and I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess probably bad implimentation by turbine (since you know every time they put in any type of new system the gimp it somehow).

I like challenge but this isnt challenge this is simply making you wait if you die... woohoo yep thats challenge and fun woohoo.

Theres also problems with this as ddo was developed as a grinding game for years... then f2p comes around and they make it more grind worthy, they make it easier for players and make it even more grindy.... now they turning difficultys back up a bit and adding things like this but yet still leaving the game as the grindy system its always been. If they're going to overhaul the difficulty, overhaul the basic game design to. I dont see this ending well for the playerbase or their pocketbook overall.

"Auto-res - chug SP pots - profit" needs to go.

Ressing through traps as a viable option needs to go.

This change makes tactics besides brute force a better way to go.

[Soleran]

One of the components of WoW that I really liked was there was 1 way to rez someone while combat was active and it was on a 20 minute timer done by one class, so if you died you had to wait until the encounter was finished. It made raiders very conscious of their gear,abilities and choices made in a fight.

I like the idea of a timer for deaths it makes it more meaningful and makes the group put together tactics and thought rather then zerging and not paying attention. I think that's a huge benefit to group gameplay and coordination, good stuff.

[Gimpinator]

The two minute timer will also re-establish when you rubber band back to your Soulstone, after the duration has fully worn off. There seems to be other ways to trigger it as well. This feels like a bug, but I'm not sure.

[Xionanx]

I like the spirit of what they are trying to do here, but I have to agree with Gabriel; I see this causing a LOT of wasted time standing around doing nothing while you wait to rez people. I also see this causing a LOT of arguments and grief when players are left dead in a quest and cant loot anything because all the people who can rez didn't feel like waiting around to rez.

I can see the intention in trying to make the quests harder by removing the ability to raise in the middle of a fight and keep going. I just think its a bad way to implement the idea.

If it goes forward as it is now I foresee a lot of future forum complaints about it and eventually having it done away with 6mo's to a year down the road.

As a person capable of resurrecting someone - Waiting around to do it does NOT equal fun
As a dead person waiting on a rez - Being dead and waiting on a timer to rez does NOT equal fun.

Finally, beind dead is already awkward enough. I dont care how good of a player you are or how uber your character is, your going to die at some point. It happens. But with adding a timer you are now calling attention to the mistake that was made and placing ALL of the attention on the dead person which is GOING TO ENCOURAGE HARASSMENT AND GRIEFING. (which I might point out is against the DDO code of conduct).

Previously if soemone died its ehh whatever, grab thier stone, toss them a rez and the party moves on. Now it will be... lets all stand here and contemplate kicking the noob from the group or recalling and leaving group because we dont want to spend 2 minutes waiting to rez him. Gah.. so much is wrong with this system.

[Cyr]

This new mechanic does nothing to eliminate the usefullness of major pots in a raid.

The easiest way not to die is to complete faster and chain SP pot chugging is the best way to accomplish this.

The easiest way to heal is to use quicken, maximized, empowered...mass cures and hey SP pot chain chugging is the easiest way to accomplish this.

No this just makes it so the really weak link party members do not ding twenty times in a quest...which is fine considering they really didn't do much for you in the first place.