New Stalwart Defender & Defender of Siberys PrEs

[Arlathen]

From Lammania Release Notes

NEW: Fighter Stalwart Defender and Paladin Defender of Siberys now have a passive threat boost when using a shield. This boost stacks with the defensive stance bonuses.

In addition, their benefits have been modified:

Fighter Stalwart Defender I
While the flesh may be weak, you place your trust in the strength of steel. This prestige enhancement increases your armor class by 1, grants +2 to your intimidate skill, increases your maximum dexterity bonus allowed by shields, and grants additional armor class and damage reduction when blocking with a shield. In addition, when you have a one handed melee weapon and shield equipped, you possess DR 2/- and your melee threat generation is increased by 25%. Also, you may expend a use of Fighter action boost to enter a defensive stance. You may possess only one prestige enhancement line at a time for each class.

Stalwart Defender: Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +2 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, +10% maximum hit points, a +1 Competence bonus on all saves, and a +2 Dodge bonus to Armor Class. You also gain a 25% Competence bonus to threat generated with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move 10% slower.

Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Your defensive mastery continues to grow. In addition to the bonuses of Stalwart Defender I, this prestige enhancement increases your armor class by 1, grants +2 to your intimidate skill, increases your maximum dexterity bonus allowed by heavy armor and shields, and grants additional armor class and damage reduction when blocking with a shield. In addition, when you have a one handed melee weapon and shield equipped, your DR is upgraded from DR 2/- to DR 4/-, and you now generate 50% additional threat with melee attacks. You may expend a use of Fighter action boost to enter a defensive stance.

Stalwart Defender II: Improved Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +4 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, +15% maximum hit points, a +2 Competence bonus on all saves, and a +3 Dodge bonus to Armor Class. You also gain a 50% Competence bonus to threat generated with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move 10% slower.

Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Your defensive mastery is complete. In addition to the bonuses of Stalwart Defender I and II, this prestige enhancement increases your armor class by 1, grants +2 to your intimidate skill, increases your maximum dexterity bonus allowed by medium or heavy armor and shields, and grants additional armor class and damage reduction when blocking with a shield. In addition, when you have a one handed melee weapon and shield equipped, your DR is upgraded from DR 4/- to DR 6/-, and you now generate 75% additional threat with melee attacks. You may expend a use of Fighter action boost to to enter a defensive stance.

Stalwart Defender III: Superior Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +6 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, +20% maximum hit points, a +3 Competence bonus on all saves, and a +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class. You also gain a 75% Competence bonus to threat generated with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move 10% slower.

And for the Paladins:

Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Protecting the weak from the depredations of the strong, you become a paragon of defense. This prestige enhancement grants you 2 additional Turn attempts, additional armor class when blocking with a shield, increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields by 1, and grants the ability to enter a defensive stance or to create a Magic Circle Against Evil effect. When using a shield, you generate 25% additional threat from all sources. You may possess only one prestige enhancement line at a time for each class.

Defender of Siberys: Defensive Stance
You may expend a Paladin armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +2 Sacred bonus to Strength and Constitution, +10% maximum hit points, a +1 Sacred bonus on all saves, and a +2 Dodge bonus to Armor Class. You also gain a 25% Sacred bonus to threat generated with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move 10% slower.

Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Protecting the weak from the depredations of the strong, you continue your training as a paragon of defense. This prestige enhancement grants you an additional Lay on Hands use per rest, and further increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields and heavy armor by an additional 1. When using a shield, you now generate 50% additional threat from all sources. You also gain the ability to enter an improved defensive stance or to produce a Mass Shield of Faith effect.

Defender of Siberys II: Improved Defensive Stance
You may expend a Paladin armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +4 Sacred bonus to Strength and Constitution, +15% maximum hit points, a +2 Sacred bonus on all saves, and a +3 Dodge bonus to Armor Class. You also gain a 50% Sacred bonus to threat generated with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move 10% slower.

Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Protecting the weak from the depredations of the strong, you continue your training as a paragon of defense. This prestige enhancement increases the strength of all of your defensive auras, and further increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields and medium or heavy armor by an additional 1. When using a shield, you now generate 75% additional threat from all sources. You also gain the ability to enter a superior defensive stance or to defy your enemies in a glorious stand against evil.

Defender of Siberys III: Superior Defensive Stance
You may expend a Paladin armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +6 Sacred bonus to Strength and Constitution, +20% maximum hit points, a +3 Sacred bonus on all saves, and a +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class. You also gain a 75% Sacred bonus to threat generated with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move 10% slower.

The movement rate increases are much welcome, and I think will open these up for more use across the board.

Thoughts?

[BruceTheHoon]

[Arsont]

Oh yes please. I like. These will help a couple builds I'm working on much more fun and reliable to play.

[Seamonkeysix]

So here is my question:

Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Protecting the weak from the depredations of the strong, you become a paragon of defense. This prestige enhancement grants you 2 additional Turn attempts, additional armor class when blocking with a shield, increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields by 1, and grants the ability to enter a defensive stance or to create a Magic Circle Against Evil effect. When using a shield, you generate 25% additional threat from all sources. You may possess only one prestige enhancement line at a time for each class.

So if I am reading what is in red correctly, you could theoretically make a divine tank, say 12 Fvs/ 6 Paladin/ 2 Monk that would get 25% additional threat from any source, to include spells? If so, a 12 FvS could self heal, have good DPS threat AND get 25% additional threat from spells like DP, searing light, nimbus, ect...

That might make a 12/6/2 evasion, self-healing, AoV II, DoS I, tank pretty sexy.

Evasion + self healing + tons of threat + healing amp would be very nice.

[elraido]

So here is my question:

Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Protecting the weak from the depredations of the strong, you become a paragon of defense. This prestige enhancement grants you 2 additional Turn attempts, additional armor class when blocking with a shield, increases the maximum dexterity bonus allowed by tower shields by 1, and grants the ability to enter a defensive stance or to create a Magic Circle Against Evil effect. When using a shield, you generate 25% additional threat from all sources. You may possess only one prestige enhancement line at a time for each class.

So if I am reading what is in red correctly, you could theoretically make a divine tank, say 12 Fvs/ 6 Paladin/ 2 Monk that would get 25% additional threat from any source, to include spells? If so, a 12 FvS could self heal, have good DPS threat AND get 25% additional threat from spells like DP, searing light, nimbus, ect...

That might make a 12/6/2 evasion, self healing tank pretty sexy.

Evasion + self healing + tons of threat + healing amp would be very nice.

Reading that, it would seem that is the case. Trying to figure out the math on this one.
75% bonus from Pre/shield to all effects
75% bonus in stance/shield to melee
100% bonus divine righteousness
Intimidate bonus w/shield
20%?Leviks Set (figure shield and gauntlets )
15% Defender of Siberys Set

And I can't remember if all the Pre's tiers stack or if they just take the highest one.

[Seamonkeysix]

Reading that, it would seem that is the case. Trying to figure out the math on this one.
75% bonus from Pre/shield to all effects
75% bonus in stance/shield to melee
100% bonus divine righteousness
Intimidate bonus w/shield
20%?Leviks Set (figure shield and gauntlets )
15% Defender of Siberys Set

And I can't remember if all the Pre's tiers stack or if they just take the highest one.

I'm trying to figure this out, too. With the upcoming Artificer class being able to add silver properties to weapons, I am thinking this might be a pretty sick operator.

Human 12 FvS/6 Paladin/2 Monk AOV II, DoS I
Past Life Paladin

IC Slash
THF
ITHF
GTHF
Quicken
Maximize
Tower Shield Proficiency
Power Attack
Toughness
Least Dragon Mark of Sentinel

Go for Levik's Set for healing amp and threat. DoS I Threat. Possibly Anathema (not sure if the spell threat will stack with DoS). DoS set threat. Human Healing Amp, Pally past life healing Amp, DT armor healing Amp.

Geared out with Epic Chimera's Fang. Slot for good. Get silver from Artificer.

You end up with something like:

175% Melee Threat
150% Spell Threat
200% Healing Amp

In stance you could end up with decent HP. A good SP pool to self heal. Reasonable DR.

Tossing DP and stacking it, swinging Epic Chimera's Fang, and pew pew cannon, you should be able to hold agro no problem. You would have a good SP pool to keep yourself up with spells...especially if you toss in Con Opp and/or Torc.

I will have to put it into a planner later, but the concept seems pretty solid.

I am kind of liking this!

[Seikojin]

I swap between stalwart and kensai depending on my mood. Now I think I will hit stalwart for a much longer time. It is a loss in dps, but I think gaining that much ac and still being semi mobile is very worth it.

[Enoach]

My thoughts for both the DoS and SD - at a 10% movement cost, why would you not be in defensive stance 99.9% of the time? I like what I see with these proposed changes.

[EustaceTrevelyan]

My thoughts for both the DoS and SD - at a 10% movement cost, why would you not be in defensive stance 99.9% of the time? I like what I see with these proposed changes.

Well, if it's not needed, you'd want to just run ahead to the good part. But yeah, in any quest on a more challenging setting you would use it most of the time. But that's probably the point, since on live the stances are unusable except for fights where you're going to take awhile, since the group isn't going to wait for your fat arse you'd have to constantly be turning it off, and you only get 5 activations/rest, and considering the PrE is the only pally one that needs a feat, i think it got underutilized.

I know I'm stoked about the change, esp the whole stacking sheild threat, since I went with a weird b-sword THF sheild thing. Note: I do know when to put away the sheild and use a THF, which is of course most of the time.


Well done turbine.

[Dragaer]

They will. +3 to hit and damage helps them be a little more useful in non tanking roles as well. The boost to HP (+6 con, 2 more than before but more importantly the +20% HP) will put them just under Barb raged HP. (mine was around 830ish or so in stance)

I'd rather they went to a higher DR % when using a shield and or Heavy armor, but the boost in HP will help with the bosses hitting harder now. The reason I say that is because there is still no disadvantage to wearing PJ's over heavy armor, other than the little DR you get with a shield and the shield mastery feat.

[Alabore]

The reason I say that is because there is still no disadvantage to wearing PJ's over heavy armor, other than the little DR you get with a shield and the shield mastery feat.

^^^
This.

I was going to say the same, before you edited your post.

[Thrudh]

The reason I say that is because there is still no disadvantage to wearing PJ's over heavy armor, other than the little DR you get with a shield and the shield mastery feat.

I like the way they handled this BECAUSE you can wear PJs OR heavy armor...

PJ monk splashes don't have a huge advantage... A shield offers almost as much AC as the wisdom bonus does, especially now that we're getting newer better shields.

[Dragaer]

PJ monk splashes don't have a huge advantage...

It's not huge, it is just weird.

Monk splashes get their evasion and do not sacrifice DPS by holding a shield; and those that use a shield get a little DR at the cost of DPS.

The weird part comes with grazing hits....PJ's protect the wearer just as much as heavy armor does? Sounds silly....but this is a game.

EDIT: ouch, neg rep?? I'm not hating on monks Its the logic that hurts my head.

[Thrudh]

EDIT: ouch, neg rep?? I'm not hating on monks Its the logic that hurts my head.

It wasn't me... I'll pos rep you later (I've given out too much rep lately)

[NytCrawlr]

It's not huge, it is just weird.

Monk splashes get their evasion and do not sacrifice DPS by holding a shield; and those that use a shield get a little DR at the cost of DPS.

The weird part comes with grazing hits....PJ's protect the wearer just as much as heavy armor does? Sounds silly....but this is a game.

EDIT: ouch, neg rep?? I'm not hating on monks Its the logic that hurts my head.

Yeah, will try to balance that neg rep out later (not sure why your post deserves neg rep) once my rep wand recharges.

[Alabore]

EDIT: ouch, neg rep?? I'm not hating on monks Its the logic that hurts my head.

I gave you a green cookie before, so I can't give you another, yet.
But I share your point: throw plate wearers a bone - considering you can't take it away from monks, since they had to pay for theirs.

...

Aside note: that's what you get when you make some races/classes p2p-only.
You not only have to balance them against other choices, but make sure you give them a tiny extra boost, to warrant purchase.

...

Aside, aside, note: monks in 4E are listed as being psionically-powered.
Basically, bear with me, I'm just simplifying here, they're psionic sayans.
Since a lot from 4E is being retrofitted into DDO, either as concepts or mechanics, we could argue monks are like that because their psionic powers made them tougher than regular folks, who need plate to cover their otherwise soft skins and bones and weapons instead of adamantine-hard knuckles.

...

Aside, aside, aside, note: I'd like to build some monk/fvs splash, taking advantage of whirlwind of steel - if only I weren't forced to use existing robes/outfits.

...

Aside of the above: with crafting I can keep boat rags and unless they tweak them, craft them and build a cosmetic kit from DDO Store.

Some work GREAT with rags, so Turbine, don't you do anything fancy eh?

[grodon9999]

The weird part comes with grazing hits....PJ's protect the wearer just as much as heavy armor does? Sounds silly....but this is a game.

it doesn't, the % damage mitigation from the shield is absolutely better at handling grazes.

[Tirisha]

it doesn't, the % damage mitigation from the shield is absolutely better at handling grazes.

pajama wears get the same benefit from a Shield wand *unless you are talking about shield mastery feats which not all pallies could fit in I'm sure*

[Dragaer]

it doesn't, the % damage mitigation from the shield is absolutely better at handling grazes.

Of course it doesn't in the game....that is just me being stupid and thinking about reality and infusing it into game mechanics...

I will flog myself later.

P.S. I love the idea of CE getting another +5 to AC while wearing a shield (due to the loss of blocking AC). TWF gets double STR enhancements, CE should do the same with a shield.

@elraido - I LoLed...pallies and their viagra. You're right, a stalwart putting more than 14 into CHA is just silly.

[BruceTheHoon]

now that we're getting newer better shields.

We're getting new better shields?
URL PLZ!