FvS Wings nerf from an EVE perspective

[jpedd]

Spaceships and swords dont usually have much in common but on the Wings nerf topic I think some mechanics from EVE online would be fair in the DDO environ.

In EVE a fast ship could avoid weapons fire and stay out of range of other fast ships. This was balanced by giving some mobs a slowing effect weapon or neutralising your ability to warp around completely, leaving you moving a lot slower either way, and therefore as vulnerable as everyone else.

It seems to me that nerfing wings will ultimately prove fruitless, as veteran players will find other ways to win. Reference to the lord of blades raid; kiting is now know to be a winning tactic. If not FvS with wings, then it will be some other speedy class/multiclass.

Why not give boss guard minions the slow spell and/or hamstring, or specific to LoB, the chains idea? Or, since its a Cannith quest, some piece of tech that effects heavy gravity?

Using slowing debuffs will nerf kiting rather than FvS Wings ability, which, if kiting bosses is the real issue within the dev team, seems to me the fair balance required.
I think the click'n'tick compromise is quite good, I just question its nessessity given that other builds can speed tank well.

[Truga]

In eve, fast ships got nerfed to near-useless now though, because people used to "kite" other people, who had no clue in how to stop such "kiters", when there were a lot of counters available, in fact.

With wings, there is no counter the enemies have. If you click it, you travel about 10m in a direction, and there's nothing anything can do about it, short of webbing/paralyzing/holding you (freedom of movement is way too powerful of a buff).

IMHO, what we need, is more enemies (bosses especially) that use greater dispel on people in combination with their usual mass holds. When was the last time you saw harry land a hold? Yes, it's an annoying mechanic, but it'd make some encounters actually difficult, rather than just a walk in the park.

[zwiebelring]

Why not give boss guard minions the slow spell...

Because FoM gives you immunity to movement impeding magic. The problem the devs are facing are, that ingame magic can neutralize itself so they have to either cut down features or give monsters (ex) or (su) to maintain the challenge. Another problem is that the pnp rules have the round based combat so, one of those spells like FoM etc. is worth a very important ressource whereas in real time combat and with sp you do not have to care about sp or even slots.

So, at a certain point the game becomes imbalanced because the players can neutralize every threat by magic.

As much as it hurts (even me, I am really upset about taking away the wingy fun), somewhere the rebalancing has to start and as long as that means an inacceptable opportunity cost for the business you have to search for the easiest solution.

[jpedd]

True, theres always a counter via ingame magic. What I meant was, is the air dance/wing/abundant step type ability really so overpowered that it requires a nerf to keep the game in check, or is it that kiting bosses is at fault?

If its the fast move thing, then a balance is in order, if its the kiting bosses then give them something, maybe an environmental effect in keeping with their style eg The Lord of Blades (because he really likes blades)could have some inescapeable ranged hamstring attack for kiters. As someone in a different anti wing rant thread pointed out, Velah gets to spam comet fall if you dont keep her engaged, so it would be in keeping with the boss fight style to have encounter specific threats/debuffs to contend with that cant be avoided.