Favored Soul Leap of Faith = Rewind

[Flugzeug]

You are limited only in the # of times per frame of time.
You are not limited in the number of times you can activate it.

Therefore you have a limited, unlimited use of them.

This is a contradiction. Any limits whatsoever change something from being unlimited to limited. Unlimited means no limits, without limits...so Unlimited cannot be limited at all in any way, or it becomes limited.

It's like saying that paint is black with a little white in it. (or white with black)

[Flugzeug]

OP - can I use your quoted part in my sig? Cause seriously; I want to.

Yes, definitely feel welcome to use my phrase for your signature. In fact, in thinking about it, I would give up the entire Prestige Angel of Vengeance to keep my wings the way they were.


I know they spent tons of time on the prestige and tons of time trying to figure out how to nerf the wings. Well, they could've spent all of that time on something else because personally I would've been happy with no prestige as long as I can get places quicker without limits other than the 5sp.

People keep mentioning public places should get no limits. Well, even that solution would keep me unhappy. I like getting through the wilderness areas quickly as well, to get to quests faster. This compromise shouldn't be necessary. Harried state, chains, and this new raid can all disable wings for all I care...but everywhere else in every other situation, wings should be left alone. It's a waste of time and effort and players to do something else.

[Ryiah]

I look at the favored soul leap of faith as a huge factor in my love of the class. Much like the sprint boosts that other classes get

How can you compare the Leap of Faith to a Sprint Boost? Sprint Boost has always had a limit whereas Leap of Faith until recently had none. Leap of Faith also allows you to bypass various movement impairments. The two things you are attempting to compare aren't similar at all.

[Angelus_dead]

Seriously though, if the dev reason was the one you state why has it taken two years to figure this out?

Because the devs are often really really slow. Pulled a Bladestorm Fragment lately?

[Flugzeug]

i don't mind if they make the change like that, pure free use while in public, but wouldn't monk and air savants want that as well then?

It's different to complain about something you never had and want, versus complaining about something you had and are about to lose.

Monks after update 11 will still have any number of abundant steps, limited only by the Ki that's required. So 300 ki equals tons of abundant steps. I'm not saying they'll be able to spam it everywhere, but giving them unlimited ability without ki in public places is something monks have never had before. Either way, giving monks this ability or not giving it to them is fine by me. It won't affect my gameplay much.

For air savants, they just got their Wind Dance 2 months ago. It could be just my opinion, but there's a different level of expectation when something has been around for 2 months versus 2 years. At any rate, I'm fine with Wind Dance being usable like Leap of Faith as long as it costs 10 sp per use.

The thing I would love to see people telling Turbine is they are nerfing something that isn't the cause of the problem. Why should divine punishment do over 2000 damage per tick. My cleric got his to 1,466 in Shroud a few times. I imagine a caster fvs could do more. If they think leap of faith makes melees useless, I wonder what this Divine Punishment does to melee...it makes them worse than useless, more like dead weight.

I have several melee characters I play quite a bit, several casters, and several healers. The DoTs are what needs to be adjusted not the leap of faith. Until the DoTs are unable to do 2000 damage per tick, melees will not be what they should be. Of course, I'm opening the door for the DoT spells to be nerfed as well as the Leap of Faith. I'm hoping someone at Turbine will decide to nerf DoT spells instead of Leap of Faith, as a nerf to both would just make me angry enough to lose hope in the design team and how they operate. I won't mention the cannith crafting system being overpowered and nerfed since everyone who has played this summer knows what kind of problems all of that caused. Here we go again...

It's like the US Federal Government...we don't have money, so print more and make the money we do have less valuable. Have a bank print the money and pay them interest, but never ending interest since more money than what was printed doesn't exist.

It's like the solutions to the problems are not solutions to the problems but solutions to other problems that don't exist.

[Flugzeug]

How can you compare the Leap of Faith to a Sprint Boost? Sprint Boost has always had a limit whereas Leap of Faith until recently had none. Leap of Faith also allows you to bypass various movement impairments. The two things you are attempting to compare aren't similar at all.

Leap of Faith does have limits. Cooldown and SP. If Turbine came out and said, "Favored Souls are too powerful for this game, they need a nerf because they are better than every class" then I could see why they are doing this. However their reason is not this reason. Also, I would heavily disagree if they said this. Don't get me wrong, favored souls are great...but there are tradeoffs. One of my favored souls has epic sword of shadow, epic claw set, etc, and he does less dps than many other classes even if the other classes have **** weapons. BTW my strength is 36 unbuffed so I didn't gimp the strength. My cleric is heal focused and can heal better and has even less melee capability. There are tradeoffs. One of the tradeoffs for having more sp and leap of faith is less spell slots.

You know, with as many pale masters as we have running around, my favored soul would love to have the spell "Harm". That way I can heal them just like my cleric does. Or I could use the spell as an offensive spell against enemies like my cleric does. However, my favored soul has less spell slots and taking harm would mean dropping blade barrier, heal, or mass cure moderate. So there is a trade off and a down side to leap of faith. Actually there are many disadvantages and advantages, both direct and indirect. I don't feel like listing them all, but you get the idea.

My melee toons that I play have never felt left out when a favored soul uses leap of faith around me.

[Missing_Minds]

This is a contradiction. Any limits whatsoever change something from being unlimited to limited. Unlimited means no limits, without limits...so Unlimited cannot be limited at all in any way, or it becomes limited.

It's like saying that paint is black with a little white in it. (or white with black)

Clearly you are taking things to literally and that way so way over your head...

And actually your paint analogy is actually correct. Paint IS the base color with other dyes added to it. I'm not exactly certain with black, but every color I've ever gone to get is white with added dye.

[Missing_Minds]

Seriously though, if the dev reason was the one you state why has it taken two years to figure this out? The new content breaks because of this yet all that pre-existed was fine? It makes no sense (to me).

It doesn't have to make sense to you, only to them. (I take that from this web comic. http://requiem.spiderforest.com/)

But on the more serious note, it was decided that at this stage, enough was enough.

Case in point (as you want to go off the two years bases) Evasion in medium and heavy armor. This lasted for a long time, and the point that it was decided enough was enough was when monks got relased. Evasion monks running around in full plate... right.

[FastTaco]

This is a contradiction. Any limits whatsoever change something from being unlimited to limited. Unlimited means no limits, without limits...so Unlimited cannot be limited at all in any way, or it becomes limited.

It's like saying that paint is black with a little white in it. (or white with black)

Your both right. The english language can be written in many ways. While this can lead to alot of creativity, it can also be used for never ending twisting of words and sentences to form pointless arguments.

[bloodnose13]

maybe uses of leap should return like turns on cleric with radiant servant, it would still limit how many times you can leap in short time but would not completely cut off its use, just a thought.

[Missing_Minds]

Your both right. The english language can be written in many ways. While this can lead to alot of creativity, it can also be used for never ending twisting of words and sentences to form pointless arguments.

Actually I'm amazed no one bothered with a derogatory "DDO: unlimited" statement yet.

[Thlargir]

Says the FS!

Touche! If only I wasn't too old and slow to have taken full advantage of wings :-)

You know how many players have had a character broken because of a Turbine "FIX"?

I wonder if there is a correlation between the release of a new for pay character class/ability and the nerf of an existing one? Just because you are paranoid does NOT mean that they aren't out to get you!

[Thlargir]

Leap of Faith also allows you to bypass various movement impairments.

The problem is that this cannot be the dev issue, if it were they would simply disable LoF when chained (or otherwise impaired). Something else is afoot...

[aurum1]

Yeah really would have been better to give all dots a save for half damage on each tick to prevent kiting rather than this. If they try this to take away kiting then ping pong will be the next player adaptation...or something else.

[Thlargir]

It doesn't have to make sense to you, only to them.

Well, very true, but inquiring_minds want to know...

Case in point (as you want to go off the two years bases) Evasion in medium and heavy armor. This lasted for a long time, and the point that it was decided enough was enough was when monks got relased. Evasion monks running around in full plate... right.

I think the timing might be a big clue on that one. Limit evasion multi-class characters while releasing a new class that overcomes those limitations with a class ability, hmmmm...

[Jay203]

Actually I'm amazed no one bothered with a derogatory "DDO: unlimited" statement yet.

we've been thru that already... >_>
don't let it come back up again :<

[Jay203]

maybe uses of leap should return like turns on cleric with radiant servant, it would still limit how many times you can leap in short time but would not completely cut off its use, just a thought.

it's in there already

5 uses capacity, uses regen at a rate of 1 every 15 seconds

[broolthebeast]

I find the biggest problem to be that they are not "fixing" the problem just making another stop gap. It's been their practice since launch.

We've not had any complaints about wings until a group of dev's watched hardcore players, loaded out the wazzu with epic gear tear thru the new raid. They then proceed to make an adjust a single class instead of the raid. People whine about easy buttons all the time, however turbine chose that path long ago.

Make the game too hard people whine, make the game to easy people whine. It's a never ending cycle that only ****es off the other half of the player base. the game's easy, regardless of what class you choose to play. My main is an air savant, I blew thru her tr with ease, mostly solo. If I recall I hit 16 in 16 days of play. Then I move onto my 2nd life rogue, and continue to blow thru content solo. Game's still easy, its a little slower not because its harder, but because I dont have haste every 30 seconds and dont feel like spending the plat on haste pots. If I did, I'd move at the same pace as my sorc. My barb tr was just as easy. 1 shot everything until the end game content, when things got really harry Just chug a silver flame pot and continue on like nothing bad happened.

It doesnt matter what "nerfs' the dev's throw out, players are going to figure out the easiest way to beat it, then claim its too easy.

While we are throwing out nerfs. Please adjust the following, they too are easy buttons

Silver flame pots
mana pots
ML on shroud gear (11/12 for a lvl 17 raid)
Torq and Conc opp proc rate (unlimited sp)
ML 8 on heavy fort
Ship buffs
Store stat pots
Carnifex
Heroic durability (the free hp you get at lvl 1 just for rolling up a toon)
Lilat not tripping when in ball method
sulu curse of healing should prevent recon too

and many many other things.

[zeonardo]

"...Shoot, I'd rather lose both blade barrier and divine punishment, as long as I could continue to fly ... "

Me too.

Me too.

[Ladas]

I have to post here as well, I think the edit to wings is a serious mistake. They should take a look at what caused the problems. DP/DoTs are the source of the inbalance. Shield Block + Hotkey should NOT = Best dps output in the game. The wings just facilitated.

~Silver