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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    Thanks, for those too lazy to click the link . . .

    For now-Hitting FUN, missing frustrating.
    Wasn't one of goals of the grazing hits to remove the frustration (on the player side) of not being able to hit things with high AC? Can we conclude then that the grazing hits system failed to achieve this goal? It's obvious that the grazing hits system failed in its other announced goal of allowing reduced monster to-hit while still ensuring that high-AC players took at least some damage, given that monster to-hit hasn't been reduced. Has the grazing hits system succeeded in doing anything it was intended to do, then? If not, why hasn't it been removed?

  2. #282
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    Gving CE +10 is jsut putting S&B FURTHER down the DPS ladder to the point of being a CR .5 kobold.. Pointless would create too many new problems.... Ya who.... I have a shield and a 125 AC but I can't hit a darn thing and even IF I did hit it, it would just laugh at me when I did 7 points of damage Moving on to "Good" ideas.

  3. #283
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Who uses a shield when in DPS-mode? Monky-spashes as well take large AC hits when in DPS mode.
    Last edited by grodon9999; 09-10-2011 at 09:41 PM.

  4. #284
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriadeuc View Post
    Wasn't one of goals of the grazing hits to remove the frustration (on the player side) of not being able to hit things with high AC? Can we conclude then that the grazing hits system failed to achieve this goal? It's obvious that the grazing hits system failed in its other announced goal of allowing reduced monster to-hit while still ensuring that high-AC players took at least some damage, given that monster to-hit hasn't been reduced. Has the grazing hits system succeeded in doing anything it was intended to do, then? If not, why hasn't it been removed?
    Especially since the mobs in epic have very high ACs with no explanation. Like an ogre in a loint-cloth or a Sucibis in a Mithril Thong.

    Eladrin's answer just doesn't make any sense and should be accomanied with a big picture of Chewbacca.

  5. #285
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    Especially since the mobs in epic have very high ACs with no explanation. Like an ogre in a loint-cloth or a Sucibis in a Mithril Thong.

    Eladrin's answer just doesn't make any sense and should be accomanied with a big picture of Chewbacca.
    did the ogre in a loin clothe and a succumbis in a thong splash monk and are they very wise? Do they have exceptional wis/dex items? High base dexterity, the thong is an icey rainments thong, they also got themselves a chattering ring?

    chewbacca has a very high AC why do you think all those storm troopers keep missing that target thats the size of a barn door?

  6. #286
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    did the ogre in a loin clothe and a succumbis in a thong splash monk and are they very wise? Do they have exceptional wis/dex items? High base dexterity, the thong is an icey rainments thong, they also got themselves a chattering ring?

    chewbacca has a very high AC why do you think all those storm troopers keep missing that target thats the size of a barn door?
    Chewbacca must have had evasion.

  7. #287
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriadeuc View Post
    Wasn't one of goals of the grazing hits to remove the frustration (on the player side) of not being able to hit things with high AC? Can we conclude then that the grazing hits system failed to achieve this goal? It's obvious that the grazing hits system failed in its other announced goal of allowing reduced monster to-hit while still ensuring that high-AC players took at least some damage, given that monster to-hit hasn't been reduced. Has the grazing hits system succeeded in doing anything it was intended to do, then? If not, why hasn't it been removed?
    Thing is grazing hits seem to be much more useful for the mobs than for the players. The mob has 1000's of hit points the player most often under a 1000. A grazing hit to something with a smaller hp pool will make more of a difference while if its hitting something with 1000's of hitpoints it would be like a raindrop into the ocean?

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptGrim View Post
    A Percent chance to block any incoming hits(including grazes) providing your full blocking DR would be best IMO.

    Percent chance based on feats and not Shield type. The mechanics for blocking DR are in place and work well, lets use them.

    10%/30%/50% S. prof/S. mastery/Imp S. mastery

    ofc removing the existing flat % mitigation would be necessary.

    Edit: I wouldn't add the +10 AC for CE, it only balances end game and borks all <lvl15 content. Plus with the numbers above I think the net mitigation gain would be more than enuf to give to sheild users to balance loss of DPS and the slight catch up they play in the AC race .
    I offered that idea up about 2-3 years ago. Wonder if I can find the original idea...

    I don't really mind the flat Mitigation Percentage over all... I just wish it was fully fleshed out as part of character defense.

    Armor bonuses and Shield bonuses and other bonuses to improve overall mitigation


    oh well

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  9. #289
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smatt View Post
    Gving CE +10 is jsut putting S&B FURTHER down the DPS ladder to the point of being a CR .5 kobold.. Pointless would create too many new problems.... Ya who.... I have a shield and a 125 AC but I can't hit a darn thing and even IF I did hit it, it would just laugh at me when I did 7 points of damage Moving on to "Good" ideas.
    little exaggerated don't ya think.

    I mean you're only really losing Power Attack DPS, and since you are in Tank Mode typically when you have CE on I don't think it would be that big of a deal.

    They will still have a decent strength and the associated bursty weapon of uber slaying (whatever it so happens to be litII or whatever)

    Yeah they won't be pumping out TWF or THF DPS but they'll be more 60-75% DPS of the others if built reasonably. Maybe less than that I'm not sure really.

    Along those lines I would also like to see a higher Shield Bash Proc. Start Shield Bash Proc at 10% and then have ISB increase it by 20% and have SM and ISM improve it some more 5-10%. 40-50% shield bash is far more reasonable than 20%.

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  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Thing is grazing hits seem to be much more useful for the mobs than for the players. The mob has 1000's of hit points the player most often under a 1000.
    The reason Grazing Hits are more useful for monsters than players:
    1. Monsters will more often have high base physical weapon damage, which means the grazes hit for a meaningful fraction of the regular damage. Players have only a little of their weapon damage from the base weapon (esos changes that a little)
    2. Players only uncommonly score grazes: if their d20 roll was high enough to graze, it was probably also high enough to hit AC.

  11. #291
    Community Member noinfo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smatt View Post
    Gving CE +10 is jsut putting S&B FURTHER down the DPS ladder to the point of being a CR .5 kobold.. Pointless would create too many new problems.... Ya who.... I have a shield and a 125 AC but I can't hit a darn thing and even IF I did hit it, it would just laugh at me when I did 7 points of damage Moving on to "Good" ideas.
    Care to share the math on how CE +10 puts S/B further down the DPS ladder? It is pretty obvious that they still retain the -5 to attack and gain an additional benefit of and additiona +5 Ac in the SAME way PA operates with two handed weapons.

    Infact they are going to probably hit almost as easily as a two haded fighter as they DO NOT have the additional -2 to hit from 2 weapon fighting.

    While they are fighting with a shield they are getting full damage from grazing hits and now that fortification has increased on bosses the difference between many of those other weapon types have shifted partially back toward daxe and bsword. Add to that the extra hate and they will do fine. In situations where they do not have agro or want a dps option they have one with 2 handed weapons.
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  12. #292
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noinfo View Post
    Care to share the math on how CE +10 puts S/B further down the DPS ladder? It is pretty obvious that they still retain the -5 to attack and gain an additional benefit of and additiona +5 Ac in the SAME way PA operates with two handed weapons.

    Infact they are going to probably hit almost as easily as a two haded fighter as they DO NOT have the additional -2 to hit from 2 weapon fighting.

    While they are fighting with a shield they are getting full damage from grazing hits and now that fortification has increased on bosses the difference between many of those other weapon types have shifted partially back toward daxe and bsword. Add to that the extra hate and they will do fine. In situations where they do not have agro or want a dps option they have one with 2 handed weapons.
    He might be thinking we are suggesting the +10 to AC gives a -10 to attack, nobody is suggesting that. We are suggesting the -5 to attack gives a +10 to AC when shields are equipped.

  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    He might be thinking we are suggesting the +10 to AC gives a -10 to attack, nobody is suggesting that. We are suggesting the -5 to attack gives a +10 to AC when shields are equipped.
    Still a good idea, but it's fairly clear from that Dev responce that they have 99% finished with any AC options and wont be looking at this at all within the next few years.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brannigan View Post
    Still a good idea, but it's fairly clear from that Dev responce that they have 99% finished with any AC options and wont be looking at this at all within the next few years.
    Well, even MajorM thinks the high levels need some work. And he thinks this will be looked at. One wonders why he thinks any of this, since his claim that a fix for players would make it impossible to hit monsters was so beyond the pale that it doesn't even deserve comment.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faent View Post
    Well, even MajorM thinks the high levels need some work. And he thinks this will be looked at. One wonders why he thinks any of this, since his claim that a fix for players would make it impossible to hit monsters was so beyond the pale that it doesn't even deserve comment.
    That just means that he has not even read through or looked at this thread and some of the ideas being bounced around for fixes that would not have anything to do with his answer.

  16. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    He might be thinking we are suggesting the +10 to AC gives a -10 to attack, nobody is suggesting that. We are suggesting the -5 to attack gives a +10 to AC when shields are equipped.

    That kind of what I was thinking..... But as others have said, +10 AC with CE, that would be way too much at lower levels. Perhaps if it was tiered as you level up. But all this does is give higher AC, and so might be useful in a couple raids, but the rest of the game.... Simply giving S&B a higher AC with shield equipped and CE active isn't doesn't solve the problem through out the game with how shields/AC work/Armor works. It could be part of the solution, but not the solution.

  17. #297
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Going to pose a few questions to the Devs in a new post related to player AC later.

  18. #298
    Community Member Khellendros13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Going to pose a few questions to the Devs in a new post related to player AC later.
    Good luck...
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  19. #299
    Community Member Astraghal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    Chewbacca must have had evasion.
    Didn't you know? Wookies get evasion for free at level 6!

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