Eladrin - a request for an AC experiment on Lamannia

[Aesop]

True. But when and if most of those debuffs are applied on hit, the impact will be very severe on melees without high ac. I understand that there is a need to make ac matter, but imo it should not be necessary for a melee to have high ac. Debuffin fort significantly will do that. imo. And warforged casters and necroes will be unaffected I like the idea a lot in principle, but it dont sit well with how I see the current class balance.

That is why I was looking at small bonuses across a few different effects. I have never noticed a mob swinging a destruction weapon, but I have seen a mob swing sunder.

I have never noticed a mob swing a triple earth finisher either

I have seen mobs dish out a Curse though.

I figure if we spread out the Fort Debuffs across Feats, Spells, Weapon Effect, Special Attacks, possibly as part of a Guard Effect, it should be a broad enough spectrum so that it supports the party dynamic

Aesop

[noinfo]

I think that since Intimi got nerfed and tank needs to fight its all ok now. Tanking is just more than holding a shift and using intimi.

Standing around and swinging is not really active combat, its an improvement but not by alot. If you have your fortification being reduced below say 50% by multiple debuffs you may need to actually swap across to the next tank to allow your debuffs to wear off ie a more active type of combat vs boss then 1 in front and 11 behind for the entire fight.

[smatt]

So according to Mal, AC will remain useless in 99% of the game beyond level 8 and a couple raids and S&B will remain useless in all but 3 or 4 raids...

Nice...

It's clearly not the easy fix SOME people think it would be, but it COULD be fixed if they wanted to bother...

And BTW, I agee 100% that the Icy Rainments were what kicked the AC dog for the final time... One of the worst most game unbalancing pieces of gear ever added to the game.

[Brannigan]

So according to Mal, AC will remain useless in 99% of the game beyond level 8 and a couple raids and S&B will remain useless in all but 3 or 4 raids...

Nice...

It's clearly not the easy fix SOME people think it would be, but it COULD be fixed if they wanted to bother...

And BTW, I agee 100% that the Icy Rainments were what kicked the AC dog for the final time... One of the worst most game unbalancing pieces of gear ever added to the game.

Well they could put some fixes in like +10 AC if using a shield and CE together - which is probably the fastest and easiest soloution to alot of problems.

But your right they cant be bothered, this thread is being treated like every other perfectly good AC discussion thread with plenty of good ideas for fixes like the one I just mentioned.

8700+ views, 280+ posts, Dev interaction = 0

[Aesop]

Well they could put some fixes in like +10 AC if using a shield and CE together - which is probably the fastest and easiest soloution to alot of problems.

But your right they cant be bothered, this thread is being treated like every other perfectly good AC discussion thread with plenty of good ideas for fixes like the one I just mentioned.

8700+ views, 280+ posts, Dev interaction = 0

That could be interesting for Shield Tanks I mean Two Handed Weapons double up on Power Attack so I could see Combat Expertise granting Double the bonus while using a Shield.

I still would like to see Shield Mitigation expanded out a little having another avenue for Damage mitigation other than AC, DR and Miss Chance is interesting and could actually be a nice option.

Aesop

[CaptGrim]

Well they could put some fixes in like +10 AC if using a shield and CE together - which is probably the fastest and easiest soloution to alot of problems.

That would fix some of the balance issues between PJ tanks and S+B tanks.

Still the problem of AC, being nearly useless late game and 100% useless in epics, remains.

There should be 3 sorts of mitigation (well there is but they are not used to provide depth in gameplay).

Fortification, AC, and DR

IMO Shield tanks should gain DR not more AC. I had a post earlier in this thread about giving a percent chance to act as a shield block when hit.

But the major thing I don't want to see is all of these benefits being tied to the defensive PrEs. They should cost feats, or DPS via using a shield.

[Brannigan]

That could be interesting for Shield Tanks I mean Two Handed Weapons double up on Power Attack so I could see Combat Expertise granting Double the bonus while using a Shield.

I still would like to see Shield Mitigation expanded out a little having another avenue for Damage mitigation other than AC, DR and Miss Chance is interesting and could actually be a nice option.

Aesop

Well the other easy option for Shields would be = use a shield = immune to grazing hits.

One is CE related when using a shield the other makes using a shield worth while

[phum]

That would fix some of the balance issues between PJ tanks and S+B tanks.

Still the problem of AC, being nearly useless late game and 100% useless in epics, remains.

There should be 3 sorts of mitigation (well there is but they are not used to provide depth in gameplay).

Fortification, AC, and DR

IMO Shield tanks should gain DR not more AC. I had a post earlier in this thread about giving a percent chance to act as a shield block when hit.

But the major thing I don't want to see is all of these benefits being tied to the defensive PrEs. They should cost feats, or DPS via using a shield.

Agreed. All three defensive attributes should be in use. imo its fine if pjs have a bit more ac, if sb has more dr and possibly also fort. fort could be tied to armor type also.

I also agree on the cost being in feats (imo also enhancements with feat/prof as req is fine) is good. Would make it more flexible than the pres, which currently are quite important for ac.

Oh man.. what huge changes we want Soon they'll just copy paste the lyrics of king nothing in the blog...

[grodon9999]

Well the other easy option for Shields would be = use a shield = immune to grazing hits.

One is CE related when using a shield the other makes using a shield worth while

Blocking DR should apply to grazing hits.

What bugs me about shield mastery is a +1 Wooden Tower Shield stops more than an Epic Kundarak Warding shield (correct me if I'm wrong).

[smatt]

Well they could put some fixes in like +10 AC if using a shield and CE together - which is probably the fastest and easiest soloution to alot of problems.

But your right they cant be bothered, this thread is being treated like every other perfectly good AC discussion thread with plenty of good ideas for fixes like the one I just mentioned.

8700+ views, 280+ posts, Dev interaction = 0

Well that could be part of a potential change, along with the change to the PRE's currently on Lama and planned for live on Monday. More static DR on shields, light, medium, and most assuredly heavy armor would be another smart move.

I don't like the idea of unhittable AC though... Only being hit on a 20 is a good thing period.. Even if your AC 199... That's game breaking... I also don't like the idea of penalizing the dress wearing crowd, while I also don't think they should recieve any additional benefits either. Substantial armor wearing folk should be less affected by grazing hits, sheild users even less so and the combo of both even less. I made these points back when DA and grazing hits etc were first implemented... 2 years ago... Of course this problem has been ignored for 2 years

But as others have said, when it comes to end game and epics. Well as long as they leave the caster easy buttons, it really won't matter... Since the fastest most efficient way will still be CASTER power And all this would do would me the pawer whittle tanks they drag along will take LESS caster class resources to keep them from going all ghostly..... And I hate to say what I just said, because now peoel are going to go all Hell Hound because I've implied that casters should get nerfed.

[sweez]

I have never noticed a mob swinging a destruction weapon, but I have seen a mob swing sunder.

Kai-teng in Litany swings a destruction weapon

[Drfirewater79]

Have you guys read the latest bunch of BS from dev team?

they said they cant fix AC for players without making MOBS AC so high that we cant hit them?

hows that for ignorance?\
have fun ... discuss.

[smatt]

Kai-teng in Litany swings a destruction weapon

He does and he also vorps pesky casters with no deathward

I've laughed my behind off in there more than once

[grodon9999]

Have you guys read the latest bunch of BS from dev team?

they said they cant fix AC for players without making MOBS AC so high that we cant hit them?

hows that for ignorance?\
have fun ... discuss.

Got link? The really doesn't make any sense at all.

[sephiroth1084]

Got link? The really doesn't make any sense at all.

http://my.ddo.com/ddoqablog/2011/09/...-1/#comment-53

[grodon9999]

http://my.ddo.com/ddoqablog/2011/09/...-1/#comment-53

Thanks, for those too lazy to click the link . . .

AC issues: The reason there has been any communication is …we are really busy with current issues. Dev knows about the AC discussion, and know about the inherent issues with the system. But think about it, if AC was ‘the old way’ or the 3.5 system way, other than a few people, would anyone ever hit the Lord of Blades? Isn’t it more fun to hit, than to continually miss? I agree there could be some work on the upper levels, but think about what you are asking for. It is not a one way fix, if we fix it for players, the bad guys get the fix too. I’m sure this will be looked at in the near future, but no promises. For now-Hitting FUN, missing frustrating.

Okay, let me be the first to say that this is absolute nonsense, a pure unadulterated cop-out. Seriously, with no response we could just assume that you were too busy with other stuff to address us. This answer shows extreme ignorance to the mechanics of your own game.

I am extremely disappointed with this answer.

Monster and player HP are in no way similar. Saying that mob and player to-hits/ACs needs to work the same is laughable. As laughable as that other dev being surprised he didn't see more people with shields in the new raids on Lamania.

[sirgog]

He does and he also vorps pesky casters with no deathward

I've laughed my behind off in there more than once

Do those casters not realise that they should be 'Kai-teng' him around while he's in Vorpal phase (at least if they insist on soloing without Deathward)? The name gives it away...

[sirgog]

Blocking DR should apply to grazing hits.

What bugs me about shield mastery is a +1 Wooden Tower Shield stops more than an Epic Kundarak Warding shield (correct me if I'm wrong).

Grazes would need to hit harder if blocking DR applied. A lot harder.

On the eKWS vs +1 TS, you are right. Perhaps instead of a flat 25% (Tower Shield with two feats), the mitigation provided could be 20% + 1.5% per point of enhancement bonus on your shield. (15% + 1.5% per point for Large Shields). That would make the +7 epic shields the best in the game. However, it might push Alchemical Shields to the point of ridiculousness - this would again need to be tested.

[grodon9999]

Grazes would need to hit harder if blocking DR applied. A lot harder.

On the eKWS vs +1 TS, you are right. Perhaps instead of a flat 25% (Tower Shield with two feats), the mitigation provided could be 20% + 1.5% per point of enhancement bonus on your shield. (15% + 1.5% per point for Large Shields). That would make the +7 epic shields the best in the game. However, it might push Alchemical Shields to the point of ridiculousness - this would again need to be tested.

So a % of blocking DR can affect grazes.

Despite that ridiculous Dev comment, AC is still the best way to address damage mitigation, give CE 10 points so S&B is back in the lead. The fact that just having a shield, any shield, giving 25% damage mitigation is stupid.

[CaptGrim]

So a % of blocking DR can affect grazes.

Despite that ridiculous Dev comment, AC is still the best way to address damage mitigation, give CE 10 points so S&B is back in the lead. The fact that just having a shield, any shield, giving 25% damage mitigation is stupid.

A Percent chance to block any incoming hits(including grazes) providing your full blocking DR would be best IMO.

Percent chance based on feats and not Shield type. The mechanics for blocking DR are in place and work well, lets use them.

10%/30%/50% S. prof/S. mastery/Imp S. mastery

ofc removing the existing flat % mitigation would be necessary.

Edit: I wouldn't add the +10 AC for CE, it only balances end game and borks all <lvl15 content. Plus with the numbers above I think the net mitigation gain would be more than enuf to give to sheild users to balance loss of DPS and the slight catch up they play in the AC race .