Balancing all classes

[mutilador]

Remove all dps and healer classes and just let us choose Wizards or Sorcs.
Theres no point have others classes if casters can solo everything in game and the others classes cant.
You buy a new class and get nerfed, you tr your main toon and get nerfed, this is a really a disrespect with ppl that spend time and money in this game.

Congrats turbine you totally ruined the game.

[Therigar]

While I don't agree with the way you are making your point I do congratulate you on seeing the where DDO is at the present time.

The current state of the game eliminates the need for any class other than a caster. This includes clerics and favored souls along with wizards and sorcerers. This became the de facto status quo with the spell pass.

Nothing much changes with U11 except that a new class gets added to the list. Even though artificer lists as a specialist class it is really nothing more than another caster class. And, it is the most over powered of all of them.

This is just the way that it is at the present time. And, it is probably going to remain this way for a long while.

Is it worth quitting over? Probably not. But, if you do, who gets your stuff?

[mutilador]

Is it worth quitting over? Probably not. But, if you do, who gets your stuff?

Like me fun playing this game, my stuff will disappear.

[Khanyth]

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Players adapt, perspectives change, solutions present themselves, and the game goes on.

Why people expect DDO to stay stagnant and never change/alter/adapt is beyond me.

This whole "All You Need Are Casters" is just a phase. Like fashion and music, it'll go away.

And we'll complain about something new.

[Adrian99]

I see your point, but just to be sure we're not exaggerating, let's enumerate which few quests can actually be solo'd with any class, without a significantly greater degree of difficulty than with a caster:

Heyton's Rest
Necromancer's Doom
Redemption
Sacrifices
Stopping the Sahuagin
The Cannith Crystal
The Collaborator
The Grotto
The Storehouse's Secret
The Voyage
Arachnophobia
Bringing the Light
Durk's Got A Secret
Garrison's Missing Pack
Haverdasher
Information is Key
Misery's Peak
Missing in Action
Protect Baudry's Interests
Recovering the Lost Tome
Retrieve the Stolen Goods
Stealthy Repossession
Stop Hazadill's Shipment
The Kobolds' New Ringleader
The Miller's Debt
The Smuggler's Warehouse
The Sunken Sewer
Walk the Butcher's Path
An Explosive Situation
Endgame: Marguerite
First Strike
Home Sweet Sewer
Kobold Assault
Redfang the Unruled
Setting the Wards: The Lower Cathedral
Setting the Wards: The Patriarchs' Crypt
The Captives
The Cloven-jaw Scourge: Blockade
The Crypt of Gerard Dryden
The Friar's Niece
The Hobgoblins' Captives
The Kobold's Den: Clan Gnashtooth
The Kobold's Den: Rescuing Arlos
The Old Archives
The Sacred Helm
The Swiped Signet
To Find a Witness: Archbishop Dryden
To Find a Witness: Return to the Sanctuary
Where There's Smoke...
Come Out and Slay
Dirty Laundry
Endgame: The Archbishop's Fate
Freshen the Air
Irestone Inlet
Proof is in the Poison
Repossession
Rest for the Restless
Stand Your Ground
The Bookbinder Rescue
The Cloven-jaw Scourge: The Caverns of Shaagh
The Depths of Darkness
The Depths of Despair
The Stormreaver Fresco
Venn's Trail: Clan Tunnelworm
Venn's Trail: Venn's Fate
Whisperdoom's Spawn
Yarkuch's War-plans
A Small Problem
Archer Point Defense
Brood of Flame
Ghost of a Chance
Guard Duty
Halls of Shan-To-Kor
Legend of Two-Toed Tobias
Partycrashers
Prove Your Worth
The Chamber of Insanity
The Deadly Package: Agent of the Darguul
The Deadly Package: The Stronghold Key
The Depths of Discord
The Depths of Doom
The Lair of Summoning
The Mystery of Delera's Tomb
The Snitch
The Stones Run Red
Tomb of the Burning Heart
Tomb of the Crimson Heart
Tomb of the Immortal Heart
Tomb of the Sanguine Heart
Under the Big Top
Caged Trolls
Dead Predators
Doom of the Witch-doctor: The Way to Zulkash
Doom of the Witch-doctor: Zulkash, Herald of Woe
Gladewatch Outpost Defense
Mirra's Sleepless Nights
Purge the Heretics
Redwillow's Ruins
Ruined Halls
The Bloody Crypt
The Bounty Hunter
The Chronoscope
The Forgotten Caverns
The Iron Mines: Freeing Achka
The Iron Mines: Justice for Grust
The Troglodytes' Get
Valak's Mausoleum
Bargain of Blood
Free Delera
Gwylan's Stand
Old Grey Garl
Storm the Beaches
Taming the Flames
The Black Loch
The Graverobber
The Grey Moon's Den: Extermination
The Grey Moon's Den: The Trollish Scourge
The Last Move: The Way to Yarkuch
The Last Move: Yarkuch's Last Stand
The Missing Party
The Pit
The Scoundrel's Run
The Tear of Dhakaan
The Tide Turns
Caverns of Korromar
Haunted Library
In Need of Supplies
Prison of the Mind
Spies in the House
Stormcleave Outpost
Stromvauld's Mine
Tharashk Arena
The Faithful Departed
The Path to Madness
The Rescue
The Temple Outpost: Captives of the Cult
The Temple Outpost: The Libram of the Six
Thrall of the Necromancer
Tomb of the Shadow Guard
Tomb of the Shadow King
Tomb of the Shadow Knight
Tomb of the Shadow Lord
Entering the Gate Chamber
Fathom the Depths
Gateway to Khyber
Haywire Foundry
Into the Deep
The Church and the Cult
The Claw of Vulkoor
The Fane of the Six: Cleansing the Temple
The Fane of the Six: Fall of the Prelate
The Keeper's Sanctuary
The Last Stand
The Library of Threnal
The Missing Expedition
The Shadow Crypt
Bring Me the Head of Ghola-Fan!
Escort the Expedition
Hiding in Plain Sight
Hold for Reinforcements
Reclamation
Secure the Area
Slavers of the Shrieking Mines
Sykros' Jewel
The Chamber of Rahmat
The Gate Chamber
The Sanctum: Church of the Fury
The Sanctum: Quench the Flames
An Offering of Blood
Desert Caravan
Dreams of Insanity
Maraud the Mines
Purge the Fallen Shrine
Raid the Vulkoorim
The Chamber of Kourush
The Enemy Within
A Relic of a Sovereign Past
Chains of Flame
Diplomatic Impunity
Eyes of Stone
Frame Work
The Chamber of Raiyum
The Cursed Crypt
A Cabal for One
A Cry for Help
Assault on Summerfield
Blockade Buster
Feast or Famine
Foundation of Discord
Mired in Kobolds
Siegebreaker
The Maze of Madness
Trial by Fire
Undermine
Desecrated Temple of Vol
Flesh Maker's Laboratory
Inferno of the Damned
Madstone Crater
The Crucible
The Prison of the Planes
Delirium
Fear Factory
In The Flesh
Missing
Sinister Storage
Let Sleeping Dust Lie
Rainbow in the Dark
Ritual Sacrifice
Running with the Devils
The Coalescence Chamber
Acute Delirium
Enter the Kobold
The Lord of Stone
The Sane Asylum
Dream Conspiracy
Finding the Path
I Dream of Jeets
Eye of the Titan
Mining for Ancient Secrets
Raiding the Giants' Vault
Reclaiming Memories
Wrath of the Flame


So yeah, I don't even know why DDO has classes other than caster or why anyone would play a class other than caster when only those few quests can be solo'd easily

[Malky]

Ugh, i don't think the new raids are gonna be soloables on live servers, and some others might become much harder to solo as well on some difficulties. Furthermore the recent changes are pushing toward the classic behaviour of raid-heavy mmo's : beefy tanks aggroing and taking the punishment, and DPSers using everything they can to lower their personnal aggro while still DPSing.

What misses now is a 'summon' ability for raid bosses, so the squishy that inadvertently drew too much aggro faces the ground in the following seconds, ensuring a great raid-wide hilarity.

Oh, and don't forget that even if a caster can solo 90% of the game's content, some people still wack things with a big heavy 2-handed weapon. Not that they want to be inferior in any dimension, they just like to smash boxes and mobs.

[Battlehawke]

Giving melees Vorpal back the way it was or Rogues actually being able to assassinate a bosses would balance it.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

But, but.... he can do something I can't! They need to nerf that guy!

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Let's just all hug and go play 4e!

[Alternative]

So what can a caster solo that can't be soloed by a melee? A non-gimp melee should be able to solo all non epic and non raid content. Some specific melee builds solo raids. Not all casters (players) can solo raids. Very few casters can solo hard epics, while melees can't. Casters can solo farm epic scrolls, while melees cannot, but that's a whole another issue with scroll drop mechanics that should be looked into.

Really I don't have a problem with those couple epic quests where casters seem to have an edge. And not just any caster that hits lvl20 will go in an epic DA and solo it. That takes gear, experience, and couple TRs. After all, they are casters, in fantasy stories it's a caster that would hire a bunch of grunts to follow him, not the other way around. Seems some people got too used to the state where MAGES were just buff bots, that is not how it should be, not at all.

[Ravoc-DDO]

Casters > Melee, in every respect. Sad but true...

[Spoonwelder]

To date I have never been refused entry to a party LFM for not being an Arcane of some sort. I contribute and enjoy myself doing what I do with a wide range of character types.

When LFM's are only up for WF Arcanes only I will be disappointed but then put up my own LFM and accept the first people to apply.

Is the game easier with an arcane in the group - maybe - faster - probably - required - almost never.

I have run all melee and one healer quests in which as the healer I cast maybe 10 cures because we killed stuff so fast and my moderate skill with my spells helped with CC or insta-kill etc....I have been in groups of non-arcanes with my fighter - a couple of divines, a fighter, a ranger, a bard, and a rogue - another cakewalk group through higher level quests.

Anything can be run in any manner without Arcanes in the group - anyone who gets all elitist and says arcanes are the only tool that works in this game can go pound sand.

Here's a challenge for you - get a permanent group of 6 fighters together - run through the game - aside from raids see how easy it is at every point due to the mass of damage that can alllllllways be meted out - stuns, trips, saps will allow you to control almost any situation - CSW pots will be sufficient in all but elite end boss scenarios. Could 6 arcanes do as well or better - probably BUT I would bet that the difference would be nominal enough to allow you to ignore it.

Do the same thing but start with no twink Gear or hand me down plat - I think you would find it even easier for melees to succeed than the arcanes through about L12 due to the difficulty in getting the right gear for Arcanes vs. melees abilty to pick up a stick and be effective.

The game can be played successfully by any class and player of moderate skill. Stop with the Doooooom and just play and have fun. If anyone tells you there is only one way to play the game then you can honestly tell them they are wrong.

[Malky]

Casters > Melee, in every respect. Sad but true...

I think your 'in every respect' hits a wall when it comes to take down a portal

[Hordo]

Remove all dps and healer classes and just let us choose Wizards or Sorcs.
Theres no point have others classes if casters can solo everything in game and the others classes cant.
You buy a new class and get nerfed, you tr your main toon and get nerfed, this is a really a disrespect with ppl that spend time and money in this game.

Congrats turbine you totally ruined the game.

Are you serious or is this sarcasm?

I ask this because we must have been playing different games.

I've been here since Beta and there has not ever been a time when Wizards could not solo every single solo-capable (in terms of mechanics) quest in the game, and since level 12 Cap the same goes for Sorc...especially as Warforged with self-healing. Fleshies had to make sure to bring the material resources required to stay alive.

Further, I also have yet to see any of these quests not able to be soloed on a Cleric for this whole time, or a Favored Soul since the time they were released.

Granted, melee classes are at a disadvantage but Paladins and Rangers have likewise been able to solo all of the same content as long as they had the material resources needed to heal up between fights, and Fighters and Barbarians so long as they were played with strategy have also been able to solo these same quests. Monks, heck, since they were introduced folks have been proudly displaying their solo achievements on these forums.

I understand your frustration. I, personally, am not that great a player (and that fact is well-known on Khyber where I am usually the comic relief) and struggle to solo many of these quests on my toons, but I can certainly do so on any of the 4 main casting classes. I see your point, but I have yet to see Turbine introduce a nerf that in any way, shape or form prevented any class from being able to solo mechanically soloable content so long as that toon had the material resources to stay alive and a player with ability.

For that reason, I cannot agree with your OP...except to say that I, too, do not appreciate many of the nerfs we get from time to time, but I can't see the doom and gloom you are. Like I said, we must be playing two very different games.

[somenewnoob]

Giving melees Vorpal back the way it was or Rogues actually being able to assassinate a bosses would balance it.

Absolutely. The vorpal nerf was pretty bad, back to the old way I say!

Wouldn't completely balance things, but would be a step in the right direction bringing melees a bit closer to caster might IMO.

[Talias006]

So what can a caster solo that can't be soloed by a melee? A non-gimp melee should be able to solo all non epic and non raid content. Some specific melee builds solo raids. Not all casters (players) can solo raids. Very few casters can solo hard epics, while melees can't. Casters can solo farm epic scrolls, while melees cannot, but that's a whole another issue with scroll drop mechanics that should be looked into.

Really I don't have a problem with those couple epic quests where casters seem to have an edge. And not just any caster that hits lvl20 will go in an epic DA and solo it. That takes gear, experience, and couple TRs. After all, they are casters, in fantasy stories it's a caster that would hire a bunch of grunts to follow him, not the other way around. Seems some people got too used to the state where MAGES were just buff bots, that is not how it should be, not at all.

Emphasis on this point. I recall reading one of the later Feist books where Pug pulled Kelewan's moon into the gravitational path of the planet, obliterating both. Now that's how ungodly powerful epic casters are supposed to be.

[rjbutchko]

The only way to TRULY balance everything in the game would be to make sure each class 'type' had a weakness another type could overcome. Conveniently enough we have 3 class types: Melee, Caster and Specialist. There is only one game I can think of where you have 3 options and everything is perfectly balanced, so lets make

Melee=Rock
Specialist=Paper
Caster=Scissors

[flynnjsw]

Are you serious or is this sarcasm?

I ask this because we must have been playing different games.

I've been here since Beta and there has not ever been a time when Wizards could not solo every single solo-capable (in terms of mechanics) quest in the game, and since level 12 Cap the same goes for Sorc...especially as Warforged with self-healing. Fleshies had to make sure to bring the material resources required to stay alive.

Further, I also have yet to see any of these quests not able to be soloed on a Cleric for this whole time, or a Favored Soul since the time they were released.

Granted, melee classes are at a disadvantage but Paladins and Rangers have likewise been able to solo all of the same content as long as they had the material resources needed to heal up between fights, and Fighters and Barbarians so long as they were played with strategy have also been able to solo these same quests. Monks, heck, since they were introduced folks have been proudly displaying their solo achievements on these forums.

I understand your frustration. I, personally, am not that great a player (and that fact is well-known on Khyber where I am usually the comic relief) and struggle to solo many of these quests on my toons, but I can certainly do so on any of the 4 main casting classes. I see your point, but I have yet to see Turbine introduce a nerf that in any way, shape or form prevented any class from being able to solo mechanically soloable content so long as that toon had the material resources to stay alive and a player with ability.

For that reason, I cannot agree with your OP...except to say that I, too, do not appreciate many of the nerfs we get from time to time, but I can't see the doom and gloom you are. Like I said, we must be playing two very different games.

I declare this post Kosher.

Oh wait, that's your job. :P