New Feat: Martial Defense

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'm not too hot on the name but anyway. The theme of the feat is that I believe that a monk should be a viable tank character.

Martial Defense
Prerequisites: Monk level 6, Combat Expertise, 13-15+ wisdom
Effect: While this feat is active while you are centered and in Combat Expertise mode you are treated as if you had a light shield equipped for threat generation and feat purposes. If this results in DR from shield mastery feats your attack speed suffers by the same amount as your damage resistance (not counting the bonus from improved shield mastery).

Complimentary enhancement line:
Improved Martial Defense I
Cost: 4 AP
Prerequisite: level 10 monk, x number of AP spent
Effect: heavy shield instead of light shield (activatable).

Improved Martial Defense II
Cost: 6 AP
Prerequisite: level 14 monk, x number of AP spent
Effect: tower shield instead of light shield (activatable).

Overall I think this would be a neat way to give some more diversity to the monk class without being OP as you would have to take shield mastery feats still to be a viable tank.

Edit: made adjustments considering feedback in this thread.

[knightgf]

I feel that somehow, there should be a drawback to this besides the feat and AP requirements...

[wax_on_wax_off]

I feel that somehow, there should be a drawback to this besides the feat and AP requirements...

As in the loss of 5 AB (combat expertise) and 5 damage (no power attack). Or do you mean something more?

[JollySwagMan]

I like this idea, especially as my tank-ish martial arts characters tend to take Combat Expertise for Improved Trip. (And usually end up leaving CE off in favour of PA)

What do you mean by 'feat purposes' though? As in, taking Shield Mastery and gaining a percentage type of DR?

[sephiroth1084]

I like it!

[licho]

The preq and what feat does is fine, however im not sure what for and why wis.

The big "but": Why monk?

Sure we all loves monks, they deserve it, and actually have all tools to be ac tanks, but still... why exlude other classes?

Maybe it will be easir to just put:
Preq: BAB +6, Combat Expertise
Effect: when in Combat Expertise mode you are treated as if you had a light shield equipped for threat generation and feat purposes.This effect do not stack if you have equped any kind of shield.

[wax_on_wax_off]

The preq and what feat does is fine, however im not sure what for and why wis.

The big "but": Why monk?

Sure we all loves monks, they deserve it, and actually have all tools to be ac tanks, but still... why exlude other classes?

Maybe it will be easir to just put:
Preq: BAB +6, Combat Expertise
Effect: when in Combat Expertise mode you are treated as if you had a light shield equipped for threat generation and feat purposes.This effect do not stack if you have equped any kind of shield.

It's an option but I'm not sure it would be balanced for an eSoS wielding kensai to have ~25% DR.

In general my feeling would be that it should perhaps be tied in with being centered as a compromise to maintain balance otherwise there just wouldn't be much incentive for most tank builds to use their shields.

Even splashing for monk would be a possible OP exploit. That was the reason for the wisdom requirement (thematically it kind of fits with using your intuition to reduce the severity of blows received). I'd even consider putting the wisdom requirement up to 17 or 19 to really slow down the inevitable DoS/SD II builds incorporating this.

[licho]

It's an option but I'm not sure it would be balanced for an eSoS wielding kensai to have ~25% DR.
.

Sorry im lame, and at first reading do not get shield mastery part. I though its all about being able to keep agro.
That change my signed to maybe.

And answearing the question Monk with 25% DR is same balanced as Kensai/tempest/rogue/fvs with any no ESoS 2h or 2WF set.

Futhernote: It will a lot easier to talk about if %DR was more popular, like long proposed inherit Heavy Armour and shield %DR. Now ordinary tank to use shield mastery has to lower own dps. Monk DPS will be not affected with this feat, which as class specific perk is inbalanced imo.

Idea: It would be more fair, if this stance will cost also -25% of attack speed.

[Kinerd]

I like it.

Monks already have phantom shield benefits when it comes to grazing hits, to me it makes a lot of sense for an idea like this to be focused on them.

[mournbladereigns]

As in the loss of 5 AB (combat expertise) and 5 damage (no power attack). Or do you mean something more?

Well, they would have -5AB if they had power attack on, so +5 AC instead of -5 dmg. The big difference is using a shield is a major DPS loss. If monks still attack at full unarmed/hw speed. This is major %DR with no DPS or attack speed or movement speed loss. And would further invalidate heavy armor tanks. This would make unarmed toons even better tanks than heavy armored S&B, which is counter-productive. Has to have real drawbacks. Like maybe a -10% attack speed. (so you would still be at full attack in wind, which is probably still to powerful). (though does prevent you from using monk weaps/staff/kama/shuriken (Shortsword/longsword/bow) which is still minor for (mostly) pure monk.

[bigolbear]

earth stance is supposed to be the tanking stance no? perhaps a threat bonus with earth stance.

id be fine with some kinda threat boost for monks, and a monk as 'tank' if built right. a feat/and or ap seems like a valid cost. Dont agree with the mitigation tho, monks already get enough defensive bonus's.

generaly monk is a skirmisher rather than a tank but theres no reason philosophicaly a monk couldnt be a master of defence and agro control.

Id also suggest adding intimidate as a class skill to all viable tanking classes just like they did with paladin.

[redspecter23]

earth stance is supposed to be the tanking stance no? perhaps a threat bonus with earth stance.

id be fine with some kinda threat boost for monks, and a monk as 'tank' if built right. a feat/and or ap seems like a valid cost. Dont agree with the mitigation tho, monks already get enough defensive bonus's.

generaly monk is a skirmisher rather than a tank but theres no reason philosophicaly a monk couldnt be a master of defence and agro control.

Id also suggest adding intimidate as a class skill to all viable tanking classes just like they did with paladin.

As a monk player I'm going to agree with this for the most part. I'd say it might be better to tie a % based DR into earth stance. You could just drop the redundant DR off of each tier of the stance and replace it with a % instead.

Keeping your (almost) full attack strength as well as having the benefit of having a shield does seem a bit over the top. You are right that in order to actually get a good DR benefit using the proposed change, you would have to devote multiple feats (3 at least if I'm counting correctly) and that is the only thing that may make it a somewhat balanced suggestion. Giving up 3 feats on a monk isn't the easiest thing to do.

[wax_on_wax_off]

As a monk player I'm going to agree with this for the most part. I'd say it might be better to tie a % based DR into earth stance. You could just drop the redundant DR off of each tier of the stance and replace it with a % instead.

Keeping your (almost) full attack strength as well as having the benefit of having a shield does seem a bit over the top. You are right that in order to actually get a good DR benefit using the proposed change, you would have to devote multiple feats (3 at least if I'm counting correctly) and that is the only thing that may make it a somewhat balanced suggestion. Giving up 3 feats on a monk isn't the easiest thing to do.

Criticisms noted, adjustments made.

Now you can activate each shield strength individually but suffer a corresponding penalty to your attack speed. Should be quite balanced like that while maintaining flexibility.

I prefer to tie the idea to combat expertise rather than a stance as earth stance has a considerable DPS boost from +1 crit multiplier and the different stances are useful even for a tanking monk (depending on priority: heal amp, HP, AC etc).