Heavy fortification not needed

[fasteddie8989]

If everyone must have %100 fortification why even have fortification at all?

I know %100 fortification is required for every one as soon as you can get it, but then what is the point when to get %100 fortification you need to equip one item and its done. Now you have all the goodness that is %100 fortification.

So if you do not have %100 fortification you will most likly turn into a soulstone at some point because you do not have %100 fortification.

This sounds like a great tool that could be used to balance survivablity vs "?". I know it is not used that way now, but i have heard so much on how everything is being turned into an easy button, what are some good ideas to leverage fortification so it is not as easy to get %100 and hit the easy button once again? What would be something to give up to have %100 fortification? Right now it is a slot, well part of a slot if you can find an item, armor, or shield with heavy fortification and another bonus you find useful.

Or do you think easy buttons are the way this game should be?

What is everyones thoughts?

[Bracosius]

You don't think an item slot is enough to give up for heavy fort? Should +6 to a stat be more difficult then equiping an item? How about more spell points? Water breathing? Feather fall?

Heavy fort is "required" for surviveability, why make it harder for people to get? I don't understand your reasoning here.

[Khumbaaba]

not sure if serious...

Fort isn't an easy button, its a way to help prevent critical hits making damage more manageable.

[grodon9999]

What is everyones thoughts?

being 100% immune to critical hits, especially on a toon in a loin-clothe who gets hit every shot, is stupid. But . . . it's too big of a change as the whole game has revolved around everyone having Heavy fort for so long.

[TheDjinnFor]

I don't understand your reasoning here.

That's because you didn't read what he wrote.

He's asking why Heavy Fort should be in the game at all, not why he should equip heavy fort.

[somenewnoob]

What I wouldn't mind seeing is a fort item being able to give up to 50% fort. Then armor type worn would give additional %, full plate %50, robes 0, chain shirt 25, etc.

But that would break everything! lol Just a thought.

Kinda silly that a mage in robes can avoid crits as well as a fighter in full plate. There are a lot of armor changes I'd like to see with various types giving dr and such, to make armor more useful in general past level 10.

[Veriden]

Frankly, I don't mind heavy fort in the game, its real time combat and a lot happens in 6 seconds(the time it takes for 1 round to pass in pnp) and mechanics are completely different.

How ever in pnp my dm doesn't allow heavy fort with out draw backs. Namely at 100% fort you become immune to positive energy healing and are subtyped construct while wearing that item. 75% fort from moderate fort you are only healed 50% from positive energy. No draw backs for 25% fort though. Its his way of ensuring that accidents will still happen.

That said, I randomly remove my heavy fort item on my monk when pugging. Not living till I'm dying.

[Khumbaaba]

A-hem. This is DnD why should fort have anything to do with armor?

Its magic, derp.

[karl_k0ch]

Even with the assumption that only level 20 matters, the various amounts of fortification allow some customization.

There are some corner cases where you don't need to wear a Heavy Fortification item in order to get 100% Fort, namely on Warforged.

Also, having 110% fort make sense, if you want to maintain immunity to crits when under the influence of a Inspire Recklessness song.

[Cam_Neely]

Also, having 110% fort make sense, if you want to maintain immunity to crits when under the influence of a Inspire Recklessness song.

Fixed.

But yes, its customization as well as taking a slot. I see many PMs willign to give up heavy fort, WF casters that drink Int Yugo Pots ect.

[Arnhelm]

Seems to me part of the game balance is the requirement to have an item slot taken, or partly taken, by a Heavy Fort item. If the OP wants to remove that requirement much extra thought is necessary to see how having an extra slot open would change the game balance.

[Syllph]

What I wouldn't mind seeing is a fort item being able to give up to 50% fort. Then armor type worn would give additional %, full plate %50, robes 0, chain shirt 25, etc.

But that would break everything! lol Just a thought.

Kinda silly that a mage in robes can avoid crits as well as a fighter in full plate. There are a lot of armor changes I'd like to see with various types giving dr and such, to make armor more useful in general past level 10.

More than likely the rationale is that some classes cannot wear that type of armor. Rangers (light) casters (mostly robes) Monks (robes only) Barbs (Med).

If the only way to achieve heavy fort was via full plate the other classes would be effectively gimped or need to use even more items slots to achieve 100%. Someone else pointed out heavy fort is a magical property not something related to the effectiveness of the armor.

this is also why you have a shadow when you're under invisibility. it's an illusion not reality.

[joaofalcao]

What I wouldn't mind seeing is a fort item being able to give up to 50% fort. Then armor type worn would give additional %, full plate %50, robes 0, chain shirt 25, etc.

Hey, check it out: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=331933


Now, regarding the fortification thing, its really easy to see how 100% is an easy button. Give it to raid bosses and people will start complaining like mad. It happened, not long time ago.

Now, why can we have 100% fortification and the monsters cannot?


I launched a thread about fortification some time ago and it was met with ... different reactions. See for yourself.


What I learned so far and can answer with my experience? There are some things, like fortification, that are deeply rooted on the community mindsets and playstyles and changing something like that is quite impopular.


About giving 100% fortification to everyone? Thats just freeing everybody's fortification slot.

[deadkitty]

Raid bosses bypass 15% fort IMO. A change in raid tactics and suprises for all.

[MasterOfWorlds]

I think the game mechanics right now definitely necessitate that everyone have heavy fort. I do not think that this is necessarily a problem, and I can't think of a better solution to "make the game harder."

I definitely don't think it being related to the armor you have is a good idea, as my ranger has had enough nerfs lately as it is.

[Asketes]

There are many things in the game that are easy, some should be and some probably should be more challenging. Conversely, some things are so menial and mundane that making them easy allows us to focus on more important and complex ideas.

Personally I think throwing the "Easy Button" card is a cop out and many people are doing it.

[Chai]

If AC wasnt broke like a joke here I would support making heavy fort harder to get, where people would have to have higher AC to limit the mobs ability to hit, and when hit, limit the mobs ability to confirm crits.

Since AC doesnt work in the high end game, I accept heavy fort, displacement, and twitch gaming as a suitable alternative to mitigating damage and avoiding attacks, and critical hits / sneak attacks, as it seems to be the way to build / play in order to have the best chance to avoid said attacks / mitigate said damage.

[Bracosius]

That's because you didn't read what he wrote.

He's asking why Heavy Fort should be in the game at all, not why he should equip heavy fort.

I did read what he wrote, but I assumed people did not need to ask why a game based pen and paper DnD would try to adapt those rules to the online version.

Seemed to me he was asking why it was so easy to obtain and thinks it should be more difficult to get. I seemed to disagree and thought a slot was enough of a loss and why should it be harder.

Wait, didn't you read what either of us wrote?

[danotmano1998]

I thought I read something about bosses being able to reduce fortification on players now in some dungeons...

[somenewnoob]

If AC wasnt broke like a joke here I would support making heavy fort harder to get, where people would have to have higher AC to limit the mobs ability to hit, and when hit, limit the mobs ability to confirm crits.

Since AC doesnt work in the high end game, I accept heavy fort, displacement, and twitch gaming as a suitable alternative to mitigating damage and avoiding attacks, and critical hits / sneak attacks, as it seems to be the way to build / play in order to have the best chance to avoid said attacks / mitigate said damage.

Agreed. AC and armor would need a significant upgrade in usefulness to even remotely begin to think about tinkering with fort right now.