PVP Haters - insight

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Have you checked out the arenas?

[Ssdprref]

I'm not a old school player, Still i have many experience on MMORPG and RPG'S.

Anyways, what about if they create a Arena, I mean like a Coliseum, with a huge beastiarum and were you get paid for killing mobs, and even get rewarded with XP, You tired of questing?, Go to the coliseum and make some extra money while you check a raid on 12 lvl 4 getting owned by 2 elder beholders.

Kinda like the Arena on Oblivion.

[gloopygloop]

Every time someone puts up a post on improving PVP most of the replies are:

Every time someone puts up a post that they believe will improve PvP, they think that they are correct in that belief. But that is not always the case.

I greatly prefer when DDO focuses on the core PvE game and leaves PvP as the afterthought that it clearly is. Every change in the game can have unintended consequences - we see that in every single patch that Turbine puts out.

I would prefer that Turbine not invest additional opportunities to break the game by making changes to PvP that may or may not actually improve the PvP experience.

[gloopygloop]

As far as the comments about those that want to pvp finding another game etc. I have to say that i am more than slightly annoyed. I have a few choice comments that I unfortunately cannot share due to the fact I do not want to be banned from these forums. I have a shared account with my wife who is VIP and I am a Premium player. I have been a subscriber since March of 06 (alot longer than some who post that PvP players should find another game to pvp). I have also played Pen and Paper since 79. I fail to see how MY enjoyment of PVP or lack thereof affects anyone else beside the players who actively participate in it. I have and do spend my money on DDO and see no reason i should be forced to find an other game for PvP.

I don't believe that anyone is telling you to leave DDO. They're just suggesting that other games may have a better PvP experience.

If you want an outstanding hamburger, then I suggest that you go to Five Guys Burgers. If you want outstanding Chinese food, then I suggest that you go to Yang Ming in Bryn Mawr, PA. When I suggest Yang Ming, I am *not* telling you that you should stop going to Five Guys. I'm just saying that the Chinese food is better at Yang Ming than at Five Guys. For some reason, all of the Chinese food at Five Guys looks and tastes like Hamburgers...

If you want a great PvP experience, then DDO is not the game where you'll find that. And I don't believe that Turbine can make a great PvP experience without thoroughly messing with the PvE game and I certainly don't want that. But that doesn't mean you have to give up DDO in order to have a good PvP experience. It just means you will end up playing more than one game. And that's okay.

[stille_nacht]

I'm sure there are people who would stay, or join, DDO if PvP was more developed.

What I'm not sure about is whether it'd be worth it from a pure cost/benefit point of view. PvP is very sketchy in DDO atm, and developing it enough to satisfy said people will, as far as I can tell, take an enormous amoun of work. IMO, it'd be a big risk to take. And in the mean time, it'd take resources away from other areas of the game, alienating most of the players that are already playing it.

But I'm not, really, opposed to PvP. I don't play it, and couldn't care less about it - as long as it has no influence over PvE.

this is pretty much where i stand.
PvP could improve our playerbase/add an interesting layer to the game- yes.
PvP would be easy to impliment/ cheap to implement/ quick to implement/ even moderately easy to think out- no.

it is too big of a risk for now i think, but i we get to the point where we have many many more players, i can see the devs spending some time on it, maybe making a cross server battle thingy (doubt it, that sounds really difficult), but more likely implementing something that tweaks damage values inside the arena/ pvp maps/missions

[MrTops]

PvP?

It seems DDO has a PvP already in it's 'I have an eSoS and you don't'.

My build is better geared than yours, so there!

I've no interest in PvP except as a forum to test stuff.

I'm sure Turbine follows the money, so if lots of PvP fans want more PvP, I expect you'll get it.

[MrTops]

I forgot to mention, at a price

[ElfedLied4]

I love this suggestion.

- Most people have issues with PvP because the balancing will change the status of PvE.

First, let's not change anything about DDO. That's a great way to start thinking about the pvp situation.

This is why the best way that I saw of balancing these aspects is creating a separate PvP server that can balance classes/items/abilities across the board and will have no affect on the PvE. Even the party UI, in PvP should be different.

Ok, so new and different server, new UI, new/modified classes, different items, modified abilities, sounds great!

A separate development team can be solely responsible for this new server, this will attract more players to DDO, more revenue, and add a different aspect to the game.

Ok, so now we've got new equipment, new classes, ect. What was missing? Yes, it was a dev team to mold the game for the future.

Any other suggestion that I have seen regarding PvP will interfere with the ddo that we know and love.

So then the only question is: What shall we call this new game you've made? I like DungeonWorld of Dragoncraft.



If you stop to think about it, all of your suggestions put together means creating a new game. Really. Look at your suggestion and think.

[CatchPoint]

"PvP in ddo, cannot have progression within the PvP setting, and is bound to the pen and paper idea of casters. This is why casters dominate in PvP."

Have you been to Ghallanda recently?
I beat any caster who has bad AC (basically everyone) with my ranger build, 9/10 times or 19/20 times.
Heck I beat 3 WF TR's 3vs1 8 times in a row and these guys are the more able pvpers of the server. Lol.
I got maybe 500 kills these months alone with Emphasized, my new designed build, vs the best casters on Ghallanda pvp wise. There were only a select few who could kill me and a very very select few who survived a snipe.
Ask anyone about me and they would lie if they said it's not true.
And no, no every ranger build can do that, you need a good designed build, idea.
So with all due respect bro, your totally wrong about casters dominating, your mind creates this false reasoning cause you don't know anything about pvp I think.
You can bring you caster(s) to the lobster, on Ghallanda..
send a pm to emphasized or either one of my mains ill make it quick for you, 10 out of 10, 20 out of 20 i dont care nor would it probably matter ;p good luck on my 50/50 saves, evasion manyshot and l2, if you survive that ill switch bow, if your palemaster if you move you die (gotta love disruption)

Now stop spreading this false information about pvp it's fine as it is, we just need some better designed areas and minor implementations of the pets from artificers etc, little things.

A good player creates what he wants to create and theirs no boundaries.
And no casters do not rule pvp, they just have sp and good damage, they are also the perfect weak and slow target for a high dps ranger, esp WF.

For now, i'm waiting for your caster bro

Greets!

Funny he doesnt mention all you need is an archer with lit 2 AND A PALE LAVENDER IOUN STONE lol what a tool // Just hand out one of those to all the mele in the pit and see what happens lmao

[Fundamental]

Funny he doesnt mention all you need is an archer with lit 2 AND A PALE LAVENDER IOUN STONE lol what a tool // Just hand out one of those to all the mele in the pit and see what happens lmao

All you need, all you need.. lol why would I hand out the best items in the game to someone, items people work months sometimes years to get?

Jealousy is also a large part of PVP, as you just shown in your post, if you work for your items you are rewarded in DDO.
Putting a pale on just an ordinairy melee with no evasion is probably the worst usage of a pale you can do,
as for ranger beating everyone with l2, and pale... it's basically almost true can't lie about that, rangers are very strong in pvp but that's the point, they can still be beat by divine, or arcanes with proper DR, AC and a combination of spells.

As far as any build can beat good casters, it's not true you need a specialized ranger to do that and not any melee with a pale and a l2 is good it still takes skill

[adamkatt]

Unfortunately I tend to imagine that without some development of a PVP system which is appropriate to DDO that eventually our game will die.

No pvp will kill ddo.. Not really. Plenty of other pvp games out there that are made for it. MMo pvp has never been much fun compared to real pvp games like the quakes and battlefields. Yep Fps pvp is the way to go. DDO will not die due to lack of pvp or it already would have.

[patang01]

Every time someone puts up a post on improving PVP most of the replies are:
No PVP, DDO isnt balanced for PVP, go play WoW... etc.

Many of these claims hold true. In most E-SPORTS, team PvP games include set in strategy and leveling curves.
The players that start out weak,end up very strong in end game (carries). The ones that start out strong at the start end up weaker in endgame. The high dps players have low durability. And the high durability players have low dps.

The Dungeons and Dragons setting is not a PvP realm. Players are usually balanced at mid levels, but at epic levels its the casters that dominate.

PvP in ddo, cannot have progression within the PvP setting, and is bound to the pen and paper idea of casters. This is why casters dominate in PvP.

The only way PvP can be balanced in DDO is in a teamfight with a balanced team, but not many people do this.

Many people suggest to modify stats, health, spells, within the PvP setting in order to balance it, however this is a huge undertaking.

I know many players that left DDO early game because of the lack of PvP capacity. So it may be profitable to improve it slightly, but balancing is not the way to do it.

Rogue sneak is definitely a skill that should be present in pvp, and if the base hit dice (not items) were trippled it may balance the playing field a bit.

One of the best Ideas I've seen was to have a seperate PvP server like lamania where you could transfer your character and fight intersever PvP battles. Orien vs Canith! This way the entire world could be a big PVP arena with no quests or questing, and all skills, items and classes could be incorporated and balanced properly without affecting the game. Scores could be added, and PVP guilds could be formed.
Tournaments, teamfights, arenas, etc could all come together.
Instead of entering a quest, you would enter a PVP instance. The party UI could be smaller to allow for larger teams. Different scenarios and minigames could be incorporated. This way, the haters could be PVP free in the main gaming world and the PVPers could get the balancing that they want in the PVP world.

But again, where is the money in this for DDO? I answer, if you build it they will come. Many RL friends and E-Sports community avoid playing DDO for lack of a good PvP system.

But why?

[patang01]

Which has been the whole debacle for the last few years. It is complete heresy to even whisper talks about trying to impove pvp here in ddo, and it's always the generic, canned response "because it wastes my vip dollars on precious development time blah blah blah".

Sad to say as much as I hate that response, I agree wholeheartedly - both on the problems you presented in the system, as to why it is imbalanced (burst ranged dps of casters is just superior, period) and to be honest, although I would love to see a type of pvp server you could transfer your toons to for fun, I just don't see it happening - and all honestly, I'd prefer it not to.

leave it the way it is.

If I need to satisfy my pvp nerd-rage instincts, il turn on the xbox and pwn the 12 year olds playing left 4 dead. or i'll just log into Rift.

We have a DDO that after many years still don't have all the PrEs. Some bugs are still there. Some content still have issues and Epic still need rework quest wise and gear wise.

Why should Turbine spend more time developing PvP that is played by a minority of players?

It IS a waste of resources when there's still so much work to be done in regards to content and classes.

[Cormath]

DDO is about rewards. We grind and craft for gear. We pick our quests for either high exp or best loot. The only problem I see for DDO PvP is there is no in-game reward or recognition for PvP.

An in-game reward as simple as a world broadcast notice (like a guild reaching a certain level) would create a stir around PvP.

So I suggest allowing signups for the existing capture-the-flag and domination PvP to result in the winning team having their guild name and/or player names broadcast in that zone (ie the zone the arena entrance is located in such as the Harbor for Wayward lobster). If the players could signup for the combat as Guild-verse-Guild or Pug-verse-Pug, it might change the announcement broadcast of the winner.

This would encourage people to play existing PvP content both for the arena-style practice and the competition instance zones.

[Chai]

1. DDO already has some of the PVP features many people suggest, and they dont get used alot.

2. I see real PVP hate like "go back to WOW" etc, then I also see realistic statements like "DDO was not designed from the ground up as a PVP game" and both are construed as PVP hate and trolling, when in fact theres a huge difference between the two.

3. PVP is not balanced in this game. Casters reign supreme and can one shot kill everyone else. While I think that there could be a PVP game designed on D&D rules, I dont feel DDO is that game. I get called a hater for saying this, but I dont feel that having an opinion is hating. Im pointing out that unbalanced PVP is not attractive to most players. I either have to build a caster, lose all the time, or build something that can beat a caster *sometimes* and get trolled out of the PVP zone for using an "unfair" tactic like manyshot or song of capering against an opponent who can one shot kill me with any number of available damage spells. Im a lover of irony too, but.....

4. To make DDO balanced for PVP without touching PVE, there would have to be an entire set of rules and circumstances set up for the PVP zones. Im talking about rogues having a 50-50 chance to beat a caster when I say "balanced". It would be more balanced than the circle-jump > one shot kill w/ damage spell while kiting to stay out of range. - When I see it stated that this would be a huge undertaking to balance the system, this is also construed as "PVP hate and trolling" as well, which is why we cant have nice things. Its hard to communicate under those circumstances.

5. The assumption that anyone who makes an anti-pvp statement or has an anti-pvp opinion doesnt use the current PVP features. This is usually assumed in order to disqualify statements made against PVP, and I grin each time I see this. Ive brought up features that many of the pro PVP crowd challenge me on, then find out that I aint lying, heh. There are actually ALOT more features than people usually make use of. If 80% of the current system doesnt get used, why should they expand on it. Do we think they just dont keep track of this to analyze how much of a financial expense -vs- gain it would be to allocate resources to it?

6. "I would rather the devs work more on X" - X being whatever the opinion of the poster is on what needs work in this game. Popular ones include finishing PREs, new content, and fixing bugs. - rather than working on PVP. Usually labeled trolling due to not agreeing with the OP suggestion in a PVP thread. Again, hard to communicate under those circumstances, when every single opinion other than "/signed" is considered hating and trolling.

[fuzzy1guy]

The fact that we have arenas and capture the flag style team pvp already.... And NOBODY uses it. Where pvp is completely 100% balanced. You can have toon X on your team just like they do.

Kind of says alot about what they really want for pvp.... "I want to pwn noobs without being pwnt myself. balance! we need balance! "

And the arena and ctf been here for a long time now. Still nobody uses it.


Personally i don't want to see time spent on pvp programming. And i've gained a strong dislike of the adversarial eliteist atittudes that pvp players bring to pvp focused games. Seen more than a couple games get to be unfun once the dev focus on pvp started. Sure we don't have the worlds best community here. But it's still fairly open and friendly. Now go check out games that are 100% pvp. Pretty terrible 'community'.

[Uska]

There is plenty of pvp as it is and nobody really uses it. Any dev time spent on more pvp is time spent away from content and bug fixes for the majority plus dnd(ddo) just isnt a good game for pvp to many issues which would call for artifical balancing.

[stretchcore]

snip....
Usually labeled trolling due to not agreeing with the OP suggestion in a PVP thread. Again, hard to communicate under those circumstances, when every single opinion other than "/signed" is considered hating and trolling.

This is the reason most PVP happens on the forums, and not just in pvp threads. :/

My 2cp is that if there's going to be ongoing changes to ddo, new classes/enhancements/PREs etc, that would necessitate rebalancing for PVE, they would also require more dev time rebalancing for PVP. This means more financial and hours worked cost to turbine, so higher prices for us, and more time to wait between updates.

And i've gained a strong dislike of the adversarial eliteist atittudes that pvp players bring to pvp focused games. Seen more than a couple games get to be unfun once the dev focus on pvp started.

Absolutely. When Anarchy Online decided to shift to even more of a pvp focus (having to pvp to get top end gear for any character at any level), I stopped playing.
Given the lag and other issues ingame anyway, why would you even want to play pvp on a game hosted on these servers?
Do you even think there's enough pvp experience in the dev team to maintain a pvp environment?

I don't. Starting a thread about how downtrodden all the pvpers in this game are is nothing more than another cry for attention, when 90% of the pvp options ingame aren't used.

[Mighty_Bozo]

Well, you all say pvp refering to duels, I've played capture the flag with my guildies and was a hell of fun, but wasn't the casters who were dominating the set, was mostly the monks and barbarians the uber killers. Why is that? Well, when u got a team vs team u get buffs from your buddies, crowd controlling spells, so all that burst damage is nothing when you got your back to the ground, or even when a barbarian jumps out of nowhere and catches you unpreppared. Also the main purpose on that capture the flag enviroment isn't achieving the highest number of kills, is to capture more enemy flags than the other team. So is pvp duels unbalanced? Yes they are, but on wich game are they balanced? DDO combat system works because the same rules for monsters applies to players, except monsters have a ****load more hp, the one class that I see being sort of useless on this kind of pvp setting is the rogue class, they can't sneak attack or even sneak past opponents wich is kind of lame.

TBH I think the pvp system is good the way it is right now, but I'd like to see some competition modes even if that means PvE, like a real system where you got like a mirrored kind of dungeon where you get two groups in there but only one final objective and the one that gets to the end first gets a higher bonus or something like that. Let's say that this bonus could be a buff for all the victorious players that'd last for an hour or so.

[Delt]

MMO players are rats that need cheese. There is no incentive to queue up in the arena's, thus no one uses them. I've been in two "events" and a few guild groups that have made use of the arena's. Everyone had a great time.

If Turbine ever took the time to finally add a little spice to the pvp options they added YEARS ago, I think alot of people would be surprised just how fun a little competition can be.

The pvp naysayers are just wet blankets..."GIT OFF MY PVE LAWN!!!"