Why does the Lord of Blades have evasion?

[Xenostrata]

In PnP, he was a level 12 NPC boss with a couple of Warforged Juggernaut levels in there (can't remember exact class spread, but nothing granting evasion). I can understand how this would be insufficient for Turbine's intentions, but in what way could they justify giving him rogue/monk/ranger levels?

Evasion should be reserved for NPCs with obvious class levels in classes that grant evasion or of a race that is superhuman in its agility. Quickfoot wizards are slightly understandable, they probably have a few rogue levels. Wildmen are less so, though I guess by some strange interpretation they might be counted as rangers. However, there is no explanation for the LoB getting evasion beyond "we wanted him to be really, really tough." A nice thought, except that most anyone is going to use against him is DoT spells.

Please, please stop giving evasion to mobs for "balancing" purposes. It doesn't work very well a lot of the time, and detracts heavily from the feel of the quest - a good rule for the DM is that if you can't find an excuse without the word/prefix "meta" in it, then you should probably rethink the mechanic. When I get to the Lord of Blades, cast something, and see "evaded" pop up, I'm not going to think "yeah, that makes sense" I'm going to think "This is a big-ass robot that I just hit in the chest with a bolt of lightning. How the hell did he dodge that?"

[Hollowgolem]

In PnP, he was a level 12 NPC boss with a couple of Warforged Juggernaut levels in there (can't remember exact class spread, but nothing granting evasion). I can understand how this would be insufficient for Turbine's intentions, but in what way could they justify giving him rogue/monk/ranger levels?

Evasion should be reserved for NPCs with obvious class levels in classes that grant evasion or of a race that is superhuman in its agility. Quickfoot wizards are slightly understandable, they probably have a few rogue levels. Wildmen are less so, though I guess by some strange interpretation they might be counted as rangers. However, there is no explanation for the LoB getting evasion beyond "we wanted him to be really, really tough." A nice thought, except that most anyone is going to use against him is DoT spells.

Please, please stop giving evasion to mobs for "balancing" purposes. It doesn't work very well a lot of the time, and detracts heavily from the feel of the quest - a good rule for the DM is that if you can't find an excuse without the word/prefix "meta" in it, then you should probably rethink the mechanic. When I get to the Lord of Blades, cast something, and see "evaded" pop up, I'm not going to think "yeah, that makes sense" I'm going to think "This is a big-ass robot that I just hit in the chest with a bolt of lightning. How the hell did he dodge that?"

He's Ftr2/Artificer7/WFJuggernaut5.

Anyway, since the dots are all arcanes use against bosses anymore -anyway-, it is disappointing to see that uniformity almost encouraged by this.

Giving the Mantle ability like Horoth/Suulo have, and giving evasion like for LoB, deals pretty hefty blows to SLA's and to traditional mage spells. Instead, they encourage the surefire damage of DoT's like Niac's, Eladar's, and Burning Blood, which are already better damage TO BEGIN WITH.

It seems like the stuff requiring a save should be better damage against a boss, but the way DoTs work now, they don't even compare in the long run.

DoTs should get a reflex save, and the design philosophy regarding raid bosses and their relationships to spellcasters needs a revisiting, for sure.

[Shade]

Blade barrier kiting.

Would be a joke in difficulty if he took much damage from it. Already far too easy to kill his dogs with it.

Tho they could give him a blade barrier ward and disable his evasion perhaps for normal/hard only, so casters could put more dps out with reflex spells if they desire too. (Tho honestly your wasting your SP anywyas as currently the no save DoTs are far more effective and effecient)

Elite/Epic should otherwise be ultra difficult and really require top DCs to land reflex spells, as there are plenty of no save (or will/fort save) options at the moment that work fine.

And yea ye olde "but but but its like this in pnp' arguement is getting old. PnP is always just used as a guide.. The stats of the CR12 pnp version obvious just would not work for the CR46 version.

Or just logically: For a CR46 raid boss to NOT take some rogue levels sometime in his next 34 level ups past level12 would be pretty noob dont you think?

[Xenostrata]

Blade barrier kiting.

Would be a joke in difficulty if he took much damage from it. Already far too easy to kill his dogs with it.

Tho they could give him a blade barrier ward and disable his evasion perhaps for normal/hard only, so casters could put more dps out with reflex spells if they desire too. (Tho honestly your wasting your SP anywyas as currently the no save DoTs are far more effective and effecient)

Elite/Epic should otherwise be ultra difficult and really require top DCs to land reflex spells, as there are plenty of no save (or will/fort save) options at the moment that work fine.

And yea ye olde "but but but its like this in pnp' arguement is getting old. PnP is always just used as a guide.. The stats of the CR12 pnp version obvious just would not work for the CR46 version.

Or just logically: For a CR46 raid boss to NOT take some rogue levels sometime in his next 34 level ups past level12 would be pretty noob dont you think?

Blade Barrier ward: yes, good idea. Makes sense flavor wise.

The fact that reflex saves are a waste and only DoTs should be used is a problem, not an excuse.

The only example I gave from PnP was his class make up, since without it people might assume that he took rogue levels. I'm saying from a flavor point of view (which not might mean much to you, but having the game mechanics make sense is generally a good idea) evasion makes no sense, regardless of PnP rules.

I also stated that the CR12 version wouldn't work.

Have you ever played PnP? If you start an epic campaign with characters from scratch, you do not take 2 rogue levels and 23 wizard levels to start out with for evasion. Each level in an epic class means a lot, and throwing on 2 rogue levels is an incredibly stupid idea no matter how many you end up with - two levels in your main class is almost always a better idea.

[Jaid314]

he's an artificer, and crafted himself a ring of evasion.

problem solved, now you can all go back to complaining about the fvs wings nerf.

[mystafyi]

you do not take 2 rogue levels and 23 wizard levels to start out with for evasion.

The Lord of blades decided 2 levels of monk would give him enough feats for Whirlwind and give him evasion.

[TreknaQudane]

he's an artificer, and crafted himself a ring of evasion.

problem solved, now you can all go back to complaining about the fvs wings nerf.

Stop the thread; Jaid just won.

[Xenostrata]

he's an artificer, and crafted himself a ring of evasion.

problem solved, now you can all go back to complaining about the fvs wings nerf.

Wow. That ring would never be allowed into one of my campaigns .

If he can have one, can my paladin have one too?

[TreknaQudane]

Wow. That ring would never be allowed into one of my campaigns .

If he can have one, can my paladin have one too?

Your paladin isn't a living god.

[wonkey]

I know that he has set stats in PnP, but let's put that aside for a second. I'm also not anything of an expert in Eberron lore, but isn't it supposed to be that noone knows the Lord of Blades origin for certain? Noone knows WHAT he is, other than a charismatic warforged (actually isn't this debatable? Maybe he's a Cannith dragonmarked in a mech suit) that is a WF supremacist (I think something might have been in there about him being an excellent strategist).

Who knows. Maybe he was a rogue at some point...

[Xionanx]

Yep, I mean seriously, we are all running around with powers WAY beyond what we "SHOULD" have in PnP... so it should goe without saying that mobs are going to be the same way

At this point I'm surprised the devs haven't put in gods who shown up and just randomly "kill" people in the raid just because they can.

Who knows, maybe they will when "epic" levels come out.

[Xenostrata]

Your paladin isn't a living god.

Says you.

I know that he has set stats in PnP, but let's put that aside for a second. I'm also not anything of an expert in Eberron lore, but isn't it supposed to be that noone knows the Lord of Blades origin for certain? Noone knows WHAT he is, other than a charismatic warforged (actually isn't this debatable? Maybe he's a Cannith dragonmarked in a mech suit) that is a WF supremacist (I think something might have been in there about him being an excellent strategist).

Who knows. Maybe he was a rogue at some point...

No one knows his origin, but his class spread is fairly well known. He's kind of like the Dark One of Eberron, except less reasonable.

[Yalina]

Or just logically: For a CR46 raid boss to NOT take some rogue levels sometime in his next 34 level ups past level12 would be pretty noob dont you think?

It already has fighter, artificer and WF-Juggernaut levels, and as I know, u cant multiclass more than 3 class...

[Musouka]

It already has fighter, artificer and WF-Juggernaut levels, and as I know, u cant multiclass more than 3 class...

WF-Juggernaut is a Prestige Class, which doesn't count toward multi-classing.

[Veriden]

WF-Juggernaut is a Prestige Class, which doesn't count toward multi-classing.

Also, npcs don't follow the rules players have to. Thats what makes them villains, they cheat xD (ask any dm about a high level bad guy.)

[quijenoth]

DoTs should get a reflex save, and the design philosophy regarding raid bosses and their relationships to spellcasters needs a revisiting, for sure.

Just to chime in here, making DoTs have a reflex save opens them up to evasion also which is not a good idea (especially for lightning spec'd sorcerers). not only that DoTs affect the target internally like poison or disease so in fact they should at least allow a Fortitude save for half damage.

Also i think burning blood should be made into a stacking DoT like Niacs and Eladar's

[budalic]

Wow. That ring would never be allowed into one of my campaigns .

If he can have one, can my paladin have one too?

Ring of Evasion was standard palading gear in PnP... It made paladins suck a bit less.

EDIT: Regarding home campaigns, ... you may also notice it's in SRD. So, ... in core rules.

[quijenoth]

DoTs should get a reflex save, and the design philosophy regarding raid bosses and their relationships to spellcasters needs a revisiting, for sure.

Just to chime in here, making DoTs have a reflex save opens them up to evasion also which is not a good idea (especially for lightning spec'd sorcerers). not only that DoTs affect the target internally like poison or disease so in fact they should at least allow a Fortitude save for half damage.

Also i think burning blood should be made into a stacking DoT like Niacs and Eladar's

[roryk27]

Your paladin isn't a living god.

No. But she is maxed out on crafting levels.

And according to that list if I can craft wizardry I onto a ring, I can also craft evasion.

[LordArkan]

Wow. That ring would never be allowed into one of my campaigns .

If he can have one, can my paladin have one too?

Evasion isn't something that everyone cares about or can necessarily make use of in PnP. Nothing broken about the item. Probably wouldn't be bad in DDO either, since you're probably not going to get a very high reflex without accidentally picking up Evasion as well--though it would help a few odd builds like Sor/Pal battlemages...